Hey Charlie - when you get round to having kiddies, you just have to indoctrinate them from a very young age. ;o)
Spend time with him, kick a ball around together and buy him his Charlton strip when he's 3 years old before the 'plastic shirts' or even the Sheffield clubs get to him.
Then, most importantly, you have to go to matches together.
Even though it's a long way to the Valley, you've probably still got relly's in the South East - so you can take in a few matches when you visit.
He'll be so excited and always remember those games. See him proudly became an Addick for life!
Kids will always follow the leader and when I first got into football I was a Man U fan, my brother a Liverpool one, just to wind me up but the big difference now to then is that if you really wanted to support a team and see them you had to go. Now I suppose people will say that one can be a 'real' fan from one's armchair.
Thing is as we know you cannot beat the experience of being there, and the sense of belonging and being amongst people that you can relate too. That feeling of scoring a goal and hugging the nearest person to you, or singing and shouting until you are hoarse can never be replicated in front of the box. That is why good tv matches are only good if there are packed stadiums with a great atmsophere.
The trick is indoctrination as Oggy says and getting them to feel the experience for themselves.
2nd generation, my parents came over from Ireland in the fifties and settled in Shooters Hill. My Dad was taken to his first match at the Valley shortly after by the local priest and the lineage was created.
Unwittingly or otherwise that lineage continued when on the 18th of November 1967 as a Birthday treat I was taken by my Dad for my first match at the Valley against Blackpool.
Third generation safely entrenched and without question there wil be a fourth at some point but perhaps not for a while yet! :-)
The irony for me is that although Dad and Grandad and squilions of Uncles, Aunts and Cousins are also addickted, I was taken to my first game by my best mates Dad who was actually a Wolves fan. At the time I was a "plastic" Chelsea fan (impressionable kid) brought up on what little TV stuff there was at the time - Match of the Day basically.
I started to go regularly with my Dad in 68/69. I struggled on for a year or two more, claiming I was still a Chelsea fan. (I even went to see them once!). I found myself saying things like "well I watch Charlton but I support Chelsea". It's clearly a developmental thing because come around eleven or twelve, it became difficult to sustain the logic of that position and the emotional ties had started to kick in big time. On the other hand, as I was virtually a lone Addick. amongst a school of nearly 700 boys, most of whom were either Palace fans, or big club supporters, it was hard to "come out of the closet". At twelve though, I decided I had to put things straight because by then my bond with the Addicks was just so strong.
My son is eight and although we live in Norfolk, and on occasions watch our local team, he comes with me to most Charlton home games now, and to certain away games. He loves the atmosphere (when we win), his bedroom is festooned with Charlton stuff, yet he is not quite at the truly emotional "buy in" stage. He says he loves Charlton but, I suspect, he's telling me what I want to hear!! When in the proximity of his Uncle Steve (Stripey Nigel), he'll say things to me like
"Dad, what would you say if I was a Palace fan?".
"You can support whoever you like son", I say, "as long as you don't expect me to take you or buy you any stuff? You'll have to get your mum involved".
I say it with humour and a twinkle in my eye. Then I tell him I'm joking, that he's my son and I'll help him support who ever he wants.
He's got issues that I never had as a boy. He is adopted you see and identiity is a big issue for him. Making him feel he is part of our family and getting him to support "our team", I thought would help him feel that he belonged. I am pretty sure that in the long run it will. What I have learned is that many adopted children at around his age start questioning their identity. They start a process which seeks to understand the reasons why they come to be adopted and why they were placed with the adopted families. This will last for some years and as his Dad I will try to help him to find out the truth for himself as he grows older. I hope that at the end of it he will piece the jigsaw puzzle of his life together in such a way as to gain enlightnment and understanding. I hope he will "bond" with the Addicks like I did. On the other hand, much as I would love it, it is for him to find his own path to happiness and fulfillment. So if he ends up a "Strpey Nigel" or a plastic Utd fan, I'll celebrate that for him, whilst keeping my private thoughts to myself!!
Good on you Bing. That takes some real strength and resolve.
Having read that I'm not sure I should be proud of my attitude. Before our son was born I was very clear that if he/she didn't like football that would be fine but if they did it would have to be Charlton.
Fortunately he was born during the first season in the Prem and his first game was the 2-1 win over Chelsea at the Valley.
2nd generation. My dad was from Ramsgate with no particular allegiance until moved to Greenwich after the War where my mum's family come from and where I was born. Was taken as a kid to the Valley from then age of 8 and remember my first away game at Leyton Orient in 1959. Married into a football mad family from Charlton. Saw the posts about the Kinsey connection - Me and Peter Kinsey (Brian's brother) dated a pair of sisters and later married them. Two of our wives' nephews became pro footballers one still playing. Sadly three daughters with absolutely no interest in football.
first generation - parents/rellies weren't into football which was a good job really cos I was born in the Old Kent Road. Managed to escape at the age of 6 to the country side - Plumstead. My bro went to cold blow lane a few times but luckily enough he didn't like it there. He then went to the Valley and I followed.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]Good on you Bing. That takes some real strength and resolve.
Having read that I'm not sure I should be proud of my attitude. Before our son was born I was very clear that if he/she didn't like football that would be fine but if they did it would have to be Charlton.
Fortunately he was born during the first season in the Prem and his first game was the 2-1 win over Chelsea at the Valley.
Henry, if he was my "birth" son, I would probably feel as you do. Being a parent of an adopted child makes you re-appraise things you probably would normally take for granted. You get a heightened sense that you do not "own"children but are merely their custodians; guiding them, hopefully with wisdom and purpose so that they can eventually take control of their own lives. It certainly has challenged my somewhat traditional view of "chip off the old block" Father/son stuff.
I was at my uncle's funeral a few years back and his oldest "son" made a very moving speech. My Aunt had re-married after having two sons but the new husband (my uncle) had loved and cared for my two cousins. The speech pointed out the love was more important than blood and that it was an important lesson learnt as the son now has a step son of his own.
I know a few people who have adopted and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them, yourself included. Having a child is hard enough but when there are quite often other issues to deal with it must make it even harder.
There's an interesting debate to be had about the portrayal of adoption and step parents in fiction from Cinderella to Harry Potter but maybe not on this thread.
4th Generation Addick myself.....my kids now make up the 5th, as all the boys support Charlton. My Great Grandmother worked at the Valley during the 30's 40's and 50's doing various catering style jobs and even worked in the Robins Bar under the old Covered end. She used to tell me all about the huge crowds she encountered whilst walking to the Valley from her home in Woolwich. My Nan and Grandad are still alive and still staunch Charlton followers even though they are now in their late 80's....My Nan also did a stint working at the Valley in the 50's along with my late Aunt Christine. My uncle Bob also had a couple of trials for Charlton and scored twice against Charlie Wright in the early sixties. I first went to the Valley in 1964 along with Uncle's Alan (who lives in Charlton Church Lane), Bob and Ray, and Aunt Gillian...all still staunch Valiants...Ray still follows Charlton from his home in Kitchener Canada. Here in Oz, My Grandad's brother Eric still follows Charlton and the first thing he wanted to know when I called him was what I thought of Pardew.... So I guess like many of the comments on here, Im Charlton through and through....this is my club and my life.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite] He's got issues that I never had as a boy. He is adopted you see and identiity is a big issue for him. Making him feel he is part of our family and getting him to support "our team", I thought would help him feel that he belonged. I am pretty sure that in the long run it will. What I have learned is that many adopted children at around his age start questioning their identity. They start a process which seeks to understand the reasons why they come to be adopted and why they were placed with the adopted families. This will last for some years and as his Dad I will try to help him to find out the truth for himself as he grows older. I hope that at the end of it he will piece the jigsaw puzzle of his life together in such a way as to gain enlightnment and understanding. I hope he will "bond" with the Addicks like I did. On the other hand, much as I would love it, it is for him to find his own path to happiness and fulfillment. So if he ends up a "Strpey Nigel" or a plastic Utd fan, I'll celebrate that for him, whilst keeping my private thoughts to myself!!
Bing...Im lucky enough to split my time between Avalon in NSW, about 40 mins north of Sydney and Sevenoaks in Kent.....didnt get home (England) much between 2004 and earlier this year, but managed nearly 6 months between March and September in Sevenoaks....then a month here in Avalon...then 7 weeks in Sevenoaks, and now back here until the 16th January.... but will be back in time for Watford away. Wasnt so bad in the early days in Oz as I started the Addicks Downunder group and quickly found a few stray Addicks....and of course we used to be able to listen to games live on the net...even though it meant staying up all night on a Saturday. It certainly makes me a more level headed ADDICK these days as I really appreciate getting to see the team when I return. The hardest thing mate is leaving my kids behind in England...Chicago touched a bit of a nerve with me when I read his post earlier....I know how he feels.
Good on you Bing. I imagine it is a precarious and sensitive balance between allowing your son to seek his own identity yet making him understand that he is just like the rest of your family, i.e. Addicks.
Tel, that bond that you have with your Charlton supporting kids is like nothing else, wherever they are. Even though you and I and others know that you have to work 10 times harder at it.
[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]The irony for me is that although Dad and Grandad and squilions of Uncles, Aunts and Cousins are also addickted, I was taken to my first game by my best mates Dad who was actually a Wolves fan. At the time I was a "plastic" Chelsea fan (impressionable kid) brought up on what little TV stuff there was at the time - Match of the Day basically.
I started to go regularly with my Dad in 68/69. I struggled on for a year or two more, claiming I was still a Chelsea fan. (I even went to see them once!). I found myself saying things like "well I watch Charlton but I support Chelsea". It's clearly a developmental thing because come around eleven or twelve, it became difficult to sustain the logic of that position and the emotional ties had started to kick in big time. On the other hand, as I was virtually a lone Addick. amongst a school of nearly 700 boys, most of whom were either Palace fans, or big club supporters, it was hard to "come out of the closet". At twelve though, I decided I had to put things straight because by then my bond with the Addicks was just so strong.
My son is eight and although we live in Norfolk, and on occasions watch our local team, he comes with me to most Charlton home games now, and to certain away games. He loves the atmosphere (when we win), his bedroom is festooned with Charlton stuff, yet he is not quite at the truly emotional "buy in" stage. He says he loves Charlton but, I suspect, he's telling me what I want to hear!! When in the proximity of his Uncle Steve (Stripey Nigel), he'll say things to me like
"Dad, what would you say if I was a Palace fan?".
"You can support whoever you like son", I say, "as long as you don't expect me to take you or buy you any stuff? You'll have to get your mum involved".
I say it with humour and a twinkle in my eye. Then I tell him I'm joking, that he's my son and I'll help him support who ever he wants.
He's got issues that I never had as a boy. He is adopted you see and identiity is a big issue for him. Making him feel he is part of our family and getting him to support "our team", I thought would help him feel that he belonged. I am pretty sure that in the long run it will. What I have learned is that many adopted children at around his age start questioning their identity. They start a process which seeks to understand the reasons why they come to be adopted and why they were placed with the adopted families. This will last for some years and as his Dad I will try to help him to find out the truth for himself as he grows older. I hope that at the end of it he will piece the jigsaw puzzle of his life together in such a way as to gain enlightnment and understanding. I hope he will "bond" with the Addicks like I did. On the other hand, much as I would love it, it is for him to find his own path to happiness and fulfillment. So if he ends up a "Strpey Nigel" or a plastic Utd fan, I'll celebrate that for him, whilst keeping my private thoughts to myself!!
[cite]Posted By: Tel-in-Oz[/cite]Bing...Im lucky enough to split my time between Avalon in NSW, about 40 mins north of Sydney and Sevenoaks in Kent.....didnt get home (England) much between 2004 and earlier this year, but managed nearly 6 months between March and September in Sevenoaks....then a month here in Avalon...then 7 weeks in Sevenoaks, and now back here until the 16th January.... but will be back in time for Watford away. Wasnt so bad in the early days in Oz as I started the Addicks Downunder group and quickly found a few stray Addicks....and of course we used to be able to listen to games live on the net...even though it meant staying up all night on a Saturday. It certainly makes me a more level headed ADDICK these days as I really appreciate getting to see the team when I return. The hardest thing mate is leaving my kids behind in England...Chicago touched a bit of a nerve with me when I read his post earlier....I know how he feels.
Tel, I can't imagine how you and Chicago cope with being separated from your kids. I suppose, like Chicago, you have to make up for the times when you are away by ensuring you have quality time with them when you are over here. How's Sevenoaks these days? I spent my youth living not far from Sevenoaks. I fished at Chipstead (the old Marley Tiles Works), spent hours as a kid in Knowle Park (one of my very favourite places), and later drinking at the Royal Oak Tap (just past the school in the high street).
Parents are from Oireland and left to escape the potato famine in the 50's (well it was a famine if there was no work and no pay) being Oirish they were Man Utd and Arsenal fans.
Was born in Burnham (near Slough) but left when I was 4 to move to Belvedere. Consider myself a true Kentishman (as I think Wellington said, if I was born in a barn it would not make me a horse) interest in the Addicks began in Primary school when I realised where Leeds (my plastic team as a young un) was and that Charlton was not far, despite being taken to Arsenal, Tottenham and West Ham games first, but not being impressed.
I'm 1st generation and probably last. My parents came to the UK in 1955 / 6 and never had any interest in football, I grew up in the 60's as a Chelsea supporter, but never went to a match. My, to be, brother in laws brothers were Charlton supporters and they took me to the Valley and i started to go regularly. Around 1972 / 3 I realised I knew all the players in the Charlton squad, the scores and watched loads of games and knew nothing about Chelsea, I realised I had metamorphosed into a Charlton supporter, worst day of my life - suddenly I cared about results, I worried in the week leading up to games and I despaired when we lost (which was frequently). I now have a daughter and a son. My son has no interest in Football and my daughter takes the contrary position to me in all things, so won't support Charlton although will occasionally come and watch. This is my key failing as a parent and I expect social services round any moment now.
I'm 3rd generation on my mother's side! My great uncle took my uncles, and they in turn took me. Quite a family occasion every game down the valley as there's me, my two uncles, my cousins and my great uncle who's now in his 80s. Dad comes when he can, but is technically a Bournemouth fan having grown up there and played for their youth team alongside a certain Steve Gritt!
Bing, Sevenoaks is alive and well mate...I live just down the road from the Oak...you wouldnt recognise it nowadays mate...its all gone a bit plastic, I back onto Knowl Park, and often have a walk amongst the Deer. My Eldest son Fishes that lake.....its vast...I did a short spell with him there back in the summer. Oddly enough I feel closer to my kids theses days. Its made me really appreciate them and every minute is quality these days. Greig, my eldest and Bart (Middle son) are coming over to Oz on the 19th...cant wait to see them here and show them around paradise...Chicago....spot on mate, but worth every ounce of effort...
1st I believe, my first encounter with The Valley was back in the 60s where I was taken once by an uncle, but as a 6/7 year old for some reason was never taken again, I often got slung out of the house at weekends and found myself following the masses down Charlton church lane, on my only visit I`d noticed boys of my age up on the heights so would venture back up the hill and watch from the slopes and that was my earliest recollection, from there it progressed to "bunking in" by the laundry at the Sam Bartram entrance, sliding down the karzy wall and praying the guy you landed on, was either sympathetic or not a steward. I loved the feeling of belonging somewhere, This was my club. As soon as the gates would open I`d be over the wall, it had to happen, and eventually I got caught, my name and address was taken and I got chucked out, after spending the next week or so cr*pping myself it happened the police turned up at my house, my mother showed absolutely no sympathy and asked that I be taught a lesson as she could no longer cope. Between the two of them they thought it would be a good idea to show me the inside of woolwich nick, I was taken to the police station where I was shown the cells etc by the policeman who had visited our flat he then sat me down and asked what I wanted to do with my life, " I wanna be a footballer" was my reply. The deal was done, I went to school and I would be able to train after school with Charlton, skip school the deals off! I never missed a day for the rest of the year, I went straight from school to The Valley every day even though we only trained tuesdays, I would do anything, helping Mr Banham sort the pitches out at Stones`s the training ground, anything! eventually I joined the groundstaff, Mr Banham his assistant Vic ? and Mr Rodney Stone sorted me out, taught me right from wrong and a bit of respect, for that those gentlemen and this great club of ours will be with me ever.
Mr Banham and Mr Stone
RIP
3rd here. Grandad lived in Elstow Close in Eltham and we lived in Broad Walk. Still have Uncles in Crayford and Bexley/Danson area's. My boys are obviously 4th generation, they had no choice, you can't pick your team, you're born with one if your family are passionate about it.
Missed a generation but my grandfather was a addick, but married to a third generation addick. Knew what I was letting myself in for as he is a fanatical Charlton fan who brought me a half season ticket for my first christmas present many years ago, have got 3 fanatical 4th generation addick children.
Going back many generations on my mums side in the 1910's her uncle played for charlton surname Calcutt he left when they turned professional. It goes back to then my grandad was at the huddersfield game in the 50's (7-6). Then when i grew up in wellington gardens i used to go to all home games including reserves. Living in cardiff its hard to get to most games but go to at least 1 a month. My son who is 3 is desperate to come so next march he will have his initiation.
[cite]Posted By: Weegie Addick[/cite]That's a great story, TCE - you should try and get a book deal for it! Well done that policeman for giving you the chance to sort yourself out.
I should really edit it, and add the nasty git gave me a slap round the swede, on route to woolwich nick (is it to late to sue)
Comments
Spend time with him, kick a ball around together and buy him his Charlton strip when he's 3 years old before the 'plastic shirts' or even the Sheffield clubs get to him.
Then, most importantly, you have to go to matches together.
Even though it's a long way to the Valley, you've probably still got relly's in the South East - so you can take in a few matches when you visit.
He'll be so excited and always remember those games.
See him proudly became an Addick for life!
Thing is as we know you cannot beat the experience of being there, and the sense of belonging and being amongst people that you can relate too. That feeling of scoring a goal and hugging the nearest person to you, or singing and shouting until you are hoarse can never be replicated in front of the box. That is why good tv matches are only good if there are packed stadiums with a great atmsophere.
The trick is indoctrination as Oggy says and getting them to feel the experience for themselves.
Unwittingly or otherwise that lineage continued when on the 18th of November 1967 as a Birthday treat I was taken by my Dad for my first match at the Valley against Blackpool.
Third generation safely entrenched and without question there wil be a fourth at some point but perhaps not for a while yet! :-)
I started to go regularly with my Dad in 68/69. I struggled on for a year or two more, claiming I was still a Chelsea fan. (I even went to see them once!). I found myself saying things like "well I watch Charlton but I support Chelsea". It's clearly a developmental thing because come around eleven or twelve, it became difficult to sustain the logic of that position and the emotional ties had started to kick in big time. On the other hand, as I was virtually a lone Addick. amongst a school of nearly 700 boys, most of whom were either Palace fans, or big club supporters, it was hard to "come out of the closet". At twelve though, I decided I had to put things straight because by then my bond with the Addicks was just so strong.
My son is eight and although we live in Norfolk, and on occasions watch our local team, he comes with me to most Charlton home games now, and to certain away games. He loves the atmosphere (when we win), his bedroom is festooned with Charlton stuff, yet he is not quite at the truly emotional "buy in" stage. He says he loves Charlton but, I suspect, he's telling me what I want to hear!! When in the proximity of his Uncle Steve (Stripey Nigel), he'll say things to me like
"Dad, what would you say if I was a Palace fan?".
"You can support whoever you like son", I say, "as long as you don't expect me to take you or buy you any stuff? You'll have to get your mum involved".
I say it with humour and a twinkle in my eye. Then I tell him I'm joking, that he's my son and I'll help him support who ever he wants.
He's got issues that I never had as a boy. He is adopted you see and identiity is a big issue for him. Making him feel he is part of our family and getting him to support "our team", I thought would help him feel that he belonged. I am pretty sure that in the long run it will. What I have learned is that many adopted children at around his age start questioning their identity. They start a process which seeks to understand the reasons why they come to be adopted and why they were placed with the adopted families. This will last for some years and as his Dad I will try to help him to find out the truth for himself as he grows older. I hope that at the end of it he will piece the jigsaw puzzle of his life together in such a way as to gain enlightnment and understanding. I hope he will "bond" with the Addicks like I did. On the other hand, much as I would love it, it is for him to find his own path to happiness and fulfillment. So if he ends up a "Strpey Nigel" or a plastic Utd fan, I'll celebrate that for him, whilst keeping my private thoughts to myself!!
Having read that I'm not sure I should be proud of my attitude. Before our son was born I was very clear that if he/she didn't like football that would be fine but if they did it would have to be Charlton.
Fortunately he was born during the first season in the Prem and his first game was the 2-1 win over Chelsea at the Valley.
Henry, if he was my "birth" son, I would probably feel as you do. Being a parent of an adopted child makes you re-appraise things you probably would normally take for granted. You get a heightened sense that you do not "own"children but are merely their custodians; guiding them, hopefully with wisdom and purpose so that they can eventually take control of their own lives. It certainly has challenged my somewhat traditional view of "chip off the old block" Father/son stuff.
I was at my uncle's funeral a few years back and his oldest "son" made a very moving speech. My Aunt had re-married after having two sons but the new husband (my uncle) had loved and cared for my two cousins. The speech pointed out the love was more important than blood and that it was an important lesson learnt as the son now has a step son of his own.
I know a few people who have adopted and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them, yourself included. Having a child is hard enough but when there are quite often other issues to deal with it must make it even harder.
There's an interesting debate to be had about the portrayal of adoption and step parents in fiction from Cinderella to Harry Potter but maybe not on this thread.
So I guess like many of the comments on here, Im Charlton through and through....this is my club and my life.
The talk of a true dad! :-))
Lovely post Bing!
Not the Stripeys though, eh??
Great post Bing from a true father.
Tel, I can't imagine how you and Chicago cope with being separated from your kids. I suppose, like Chicago, you have to make up for the times when you are away by ensuring you have quality time with them when you are over here. How's Sevenoaks these days? I spent my youth living not far from Sevenoaks. I fished at Chipstead (the old Marley Tiles Works), spent hours as a kid in Knowle Park (one of my very favourite places), and later drinking at the Royal Oak Tap (just past the school in the high street).
Parents are from Oireland and left to escape the potato famine in the 50's (well it was a famine if there was no work and no pay) being Oirish they were Man Utd and Arsenal fans.
Was born in Burnham (near Slough) but left when I was 4 to move to Belvedere. Consider myself a true Kentishman (as I think Wellington said, if I was born in a barn it would not make me a horse) interest in the Addicks began in Primary school when I realised where Leeds (my plastic team as a young un) was and that Charlton was not far, despite being taken to Arsenal, Tottenham and West Ham games first, but not being impressed.
2nd generation are now following, slowly.
Dad comes when he can, but is technically a Bournemouth fan having grown up there and played for their youth team alongside a certain Steve Gritt!
Mr Banham and Mr Stone
RIP
My boys are obviously 4th generation, they had no choice, you can't pick your team, you're born with one if your family are passionate about it.
I should really edit it, and add the nasty git gave me a slap round the swede, on route to woolwich nick (is it to late to sue)