A good call.My patience with Bougerra has run out.Didn't we only sign him to run the length of the pitch with the ball and maybe smash in a few goals? Well he hasn't.Time to move on.
Fortune is one of those who seem to be judged more harshly than others in my opinion. I think because he and Bougy are physically similar Jon has taken the rap for some of Bougy's errors over the course of the season.
Yes he conceded the penalty on Saturday which was bad but they didn't score from it. One could argue that he was left exposed by the mistakes of others to be put in that position.
I would stick with Fortune and Sodje for the time being and see if they can develop an understanding.
Another consideration is the lack of height in the side. Fortune goes some way to redressing that.
Last but not least Fortune is a relatively prolific goalscorer as centre halves go and Sodje has already shown his attacking instincts. The strikers are not producing as copiously discussed already so we need to score from other areas like corners for example! In my view Sodje and Fortune are the best pairing for that.
I know Jon looks casual at times but he is committed and has played through the pain barrier before for us.
He is one of the good guys and we should get behind him.
Paddy's time will come with injuries and suspensions and if he does his stuff then I'll be amongst the first to praise him.
I've always rated Fortune but this season something is missing from his game; lacking in confidence or basic concerntration seem like two contenders for his downturn in performance. What is needed is for someone to take command of the defence and order them about. Some encouragement and direction from on the pitch would not go amiss. A bit like Deano use to do. Haven't heard a peep out of (hiss boo) Weaver.
It's the same as last season, the midfield are leaving them too exposed. And all the while we are relying on Semedo to do all the defending for the other three that will continue no matter who we pair up in the middle. The real dilemma is who to drop though. Or as some have suggested go 4-5-1. With That way you can afford to accomodate Sam, ZZ, Reid, Racon and Semedo giving a good balance.
Big Chris up top but this only works as long as the attack minded midfielders support him. And I can't imagine us leaving over £3 million pound worth of striking talent on the bench.
Or perhaps Pards has to be a bit hearltess with either Reid or ZZ??
Fortune is NOT a leader - and needs to play alongside a stronger personality who gives him instruction during the game.
When we've seen Fortune play impressively, he's invariably had the 'leader' type player alongside him.
Playing him alongside another player who is not a leader (eg Bougherra), results in indecision from BOTH centre backs.
[cite]Posted By: Solidgone[/cite]I've always rated Fortune but this season something is missing from his game; lacking in confidence or basic concerntration seem like two contenders for his downturn in performance. What is needed is for someone to take command of the defence and order them about. Some encouragement and direction from on the pitch would not go amiss. A bit like Deano use to do. Haven't heard a peep out of (hiss boo) Weaver.
Weaver could talk more. Sir Chris was doing the "general" job when he was playing. Maybe Mills could take it on although there may be a reluctance because he is only in on loan.
Steve Brown has often said on the radio that Fortune should lead more and those with long memories might recall that he skippered one of Keith Peacock's title winning reserve sides.
Given that if people get behind him he may gain confidence and be capable of more.
As things stand he is in the Kish, Lisbie, ZZ scapegoat camp as far as a lot of fans are concerned.
agree about the bad decision delaying the challenge until it was in the area.
i haven't seen the build up to the pen on tv, but live it looked as though mills was an acre out of position when we lost the ball near the half way line.
(this is not meant as a defence for fortune).
[quote][cite]Posted By: paulbaconsarnie[/cite]agree about the bad decision delaying the challenge until it was in the area. i haven't seen the build up to the pen on tv, but live it looked as though mills was an acre out of position when we lost the ball near the half way line. (this is not meant as a defence for fortune).[/quote]
Your dead right mate. However, Mills does need to get foward as its one of his greatest atributes.... don't you reckon? We need that marauding run every now and then... Especially at that point in the game when we were all getting on our high horses about scoring a goal. He should be able to trust his CB / Fortune to come across and hold him up at least a little bit! Even live during the game," I was shouting stick your effing foot in" as Fortune backed himself into the penalty box. It was rubbish moment.
And, when it was Mills's turn to try and stop a defender running in at him about 10 minutes later, he had the common sense and experience to stik his foot in about 6yrd before the guy got to our 18yrd box....It wasn't a heavy tackle, but just poked his leg in and the ball went elsewhere. Exactly what Fortune should have done earlier on.
I must add though,I'm not gonna get too negative about a few games...Just being critical of that one challenge. I'm starting to become aware of being too analytical of every single challenge and player issue.
They didn't actually play that badly, just needs tweeking and I'm really optimistic that the defence can get some kind of cohesion in the next couple of games.
No one has mentioned playing Bougie in midfield. I thought he had played well there for Sheff Wednesday. I think we are lacking a big strong midfielder, a presence in midfield. We need to allow Reid and ZZ to do their stuff further up the field. In my mind this would not only protect the defence but also make our midfield far more effective. We could then just play Big Chris up front with the attacking midfielders breaking through to support when required. This would be far more difficult for the opposition to defend. Yes, give McCarthorse a go alongside Sodje. The guy has something to prove. He played well at Palarse and was promptly dropped. He has the height and the mouth and we have nothing to lose the way we are playing at the moment.
Some have been saying McCarthy had a good game against Palace - he might have given away two penalties with a different ref - he is unable to challenge for a ball without at least one arm wrapped round the defender. I think either of Magic, Fortune or Sodje could do a job alongside a commanding defender. How about Craig Moore or Onyewu (ex-toon) or Pressley who isn't playing for Celtic currently?
[cite]Posted By: Addickson's God[/cite]Some have been saying McCarthy had a good game against Palace - he might have given away two penalties with a different ref - he is unable to challenge for a ball without at least one arm wrapped round the defender. I think either of Magic, Fortune or Sodje could do a job alongside a commanding defender. How about Craig Moore or Onyewu (ex-toon) or Pressley who isn't playing for Celtic currently?
I watched the highlights of the palace game the other night. There weren't any penalty claims against Paddy shown and I can't recall any from the actual game, although in fairness I was pretty pissed at the time.....
Comments
As long as Paddy has a good old Oirish footballing brain, we might just get away with it.
I don't think that it helps to keep chopping and changing so I would stick with Sodje and Fortune for the next couple of games.
Yes he conceded the penalty on Saturday which was bad but they didn't score from it. One could argue that he was left exposed by the mistakes of others to be put in that position.
I would stick with Fortune and Sodje for the time being and see if they can develop an understanding.
Another consideration is the lack of height in the side. Fortune goes some way to redressing that.
Last but not least Fortune is a relatively prolific goalscorer as centre halves go and Sodje has already shown his attacking instincts. The strikers are not producing as copiously discussed already so we need to score from other areas like corners for example! In my view Sodje and Fortune are the best pairing for that.
I know Jon looks casual at times but he is committed and has played through the pain barrier before for us.
He is one of the good guys and we should get behind him.
Paddy's time will come with injuries and suspensions and if he does his stuff then I'll be amongst the first to praise him.
He's also come through the ranks and now probably the longest serving player.
Big Chris up top but this only works as long as the attack minded midfielders support him. And I can't imagine us leaving over £3 million pound worth of striking talent on the bench.
Or perhaps Pards has to be a bit hearltess with either Reid or ZZ??
You've got it in one, I think.
Fortune is NOT a leader - and needs to play alongside a stronger personality who gives him instruction during the game.
When we've seen Fortune play impressively, he's invariably had the 'leader' type player alongside him.
Playing him alongside another player who is not a leader (eg Bougherra), results in indecision from BOTH centre backs.
Weaver could talk more. Sir Chris was doing the "general" job when he was playing. Maybe Mills could take it on although there may be a reluctance because he is only in on loan.
Steve Brown has often said on the radio that Fortune should lead more and those with long memories might recall that he skippered one of Keith Peacock's title winning reserve sides.
Given that if people get behind him he may gain confidence and be capable of more.
As things stand he is in the Kish, Lisbie, ZZ scapegoat camp as far as a lot of fans are concerned.
Unfortunately, he's too 'nice' for the job we expect him to do.
maybe we need a Mr Nasty to play there.
I wasn't defending him, I said it was bad. All players make mistakes though and although that was undeniably a bad one at least it didn't cost a goal.
agree about the bad decision delaying the challenge until it was in the area.
i haven't seen the build up to the pen on tv, but live it looked as though mills was an acre out of position when we lost the ball near the half way line.
(this is not meant as a defence for fortune).
i haven't seen the build up to the pen on tv, but live it looked as though mills was an acre out of position when we lost the ball near the half way line.
(this is not meant as a defence for fortune).[/quote]
Your dead right mate.
However, Mills does need to get foward as its one of his greatest atributes.... don't you reckon? We need that marauding run every now and then... Especially at that point in the game when we were all getting on our high horses about scoring a goal.
He should be able to trust his CB / Fortune to come across and hold him up at least a little bit!
Even live during the game," I was shouting stick your effing foot in" as Fortune backed himself into the penalty box.
It was rubbish moment.
And, when it was Mills's turn to try and stop a defender running in at him about 10 minutes later, he had the common sense and experience to stik his foot in about 6yrd before the guy got to our 18yrd box....It wasn't a heavy tackle, but just poked his leg in and the ball went elsewhere. Exactly what Fortune should have done earlier on.
I must add though,I'm not gonna get too negative about a few games...Just being critical of that one challenge. I'm starting to become aware of being too analytical of every single challenge and player issue.
They didn't actually play that badly, just needs tweeking and I'm really optimistic that the defence can get some kind of cohesion in the next couple of games.
Semedo should play the full 90 unless crippled
I'll get me coat!
Rufus wasn't Mr Nasty either, Oggy. You don't need to be nasty to have class
But if it's nasty you want how about Ben Haim (sp?) on loan from Chelsea?
Wow! I thought I was ambitious calling for Ehiough! More chance of Hell freezing over IMO!
Spot on. I hope Sodje can be that man.
I think we are lacking a big strong midfielder, a presence in midfield.
We need to allow Reid and ZZ to do their stuff further up the field.
In my mind this would not only protect the defence but also make our midfield far more effective.
We could then just play Big Chris up front with the attacking midfielders breaking through to support when required. This would be far more difficult for the opposition to defend.
Yes, give McCarthorse a go alongside Sodje. The guy has something to prove. He played well at Palarse and was promptly dropped.
He has the height and the mouth and we have nothing to lose the way we are playing at the moment.
I watched the highlights of the palace game the other night. There weren't any penalty claims against Paddy shown and I can't recall any from the actual game, although in fairness I was pretty pissed at the time.....
The only pen shout I recall was against Fortune.