well if bent is injured then yes, give him time to recover, but otherwise, we should put out a full strength squad (barring all injuries, reid, faye, rommedahl)
bent hasn't worked hard enough over the last few games imo to warrant 'having a rest'
someone needs to tell him to start to defend from the front!!!once he runs around a bit more than he is doing currently then he will deserve a rest.
the only player we should think about 'giving a rest' to is carson as we need to know we have a back up keeper for other games, ie the liverpool game.
I don't think so, I've thought it since before the arsenal game. yes, if he's been playing with a slight knock, then by all means rest him for this one, but I do'nt think he's been good enough. i'm not saying we've got anyone better, but i just find him incredibly frustrating and i find people treating him like god even more frustrating
we need him to score and gain confidence to score more, not rest him just in case he gets injured, we're playing bolton, not some lower division side who may or may not have knocked out millwall and west ham. we need to win this game, like its a league game, not because we need to concentrate on the cup, but because we need a win, against anyone in any way we can do it. we need confidence to go on and take it up to newcastle at the weekend, not a cup defeat with a poor display by our reserve side
discussing it last night at home, we've come to the conclusion that bent has to do something special to get picked for england, more than just score goals, as he knows there are more players in front of him to get the nod that do more for their clubs than just raise their own score tally.
my thing with bent is this; wayne rooney and other strikers (johnson, owen, defoe) go and get the ball from midfield, and further back, they prevent someone taking it away from them, they don't sit waiting for it, if bent isn't going to go and get it, then we need a striker that will, and bent will have to accept that even if he scores more goals for charlton this season he won't get picked for the england squad.
[cite] suzisausage:[/cite]I don't think so, I've thought it since before the arsenal game. yes, if he's been playing with a slight knock, then by all means rest him for this one, but I do'nt think he's been good enough. i'm not saying we've got anyone better, but i just find him incredibly frustrating and i find people treating him like god even more frustrating
we need him to score and gain confidence to score more, not rest him just in case he gets injured, we're playing bolton, not some lower division side who may or may not have knocked out millwall and west ham. we need to win this game, like its a league game, not because we need to concentrate on the cup, but because we need a win, against anyone in any way we can do it. we need confidence to go on and take it up to newcastle at the weekend, not a cup defeat with a poor display by our reserve side
discussing it last night at home, we've come to the conclusion that bent has to do something special to get picked for england, more than just score goals, as he knows there are more players in front of him to get the nod that do more for their clubs than just raise their own score tally.
my thing with bent is this; wayne rooney and other strikers (johnson, owen, defoe) go and get the ball from midfield, and further back, they prevent someone taking it away from them, they don't sit waiting for it, if bent isn't going to go and get it, then we need a striker that will, and bent will have to accept that even if he scores more goals for charlton this season he won't get picked for the england squad.
I don't think thats being harsh at all
Good counter suz, i can see where you are coming from too RE bent and how other strikers are in front of him.
fair argument Sooze, and can see where you are coming from. I see it slightly differently so i'll try and explain my thoughts. These below are not facts, just the way i see the game in general.
i certainly don't think he is on fire, but he has scored 83% of our sides goals this season. We rely on him scoring goals, and if he gets injured playing in what is viewed as a 2nd rate cup, then it will be nothing but a negative for us. I personally wouldn't risk it, and would rather have him fresh for Saturday.
As for strikers, there are three types. A target man a la Crouch, Heskey etc. One that drops into the pocket between the back 4 and the midfield, a la Rooney, or one that plays off the shoulder of the last defender, like Bent, Defoe.
Of the last group, two things are important when our side is in possession of the ball; their movement when they are the last man, the need for the midfield to join them when the ball is wide to allow them the opportunity to find space in the box and get the defenders confused, and the quality of the service they receive. I don't think when we have the ball wide we have filled the box too well, and i don't think we have provided much quality delivery in the final third either.
There are three seperate categories that break up a game, when you are in possession, when not in possession, and the most important of all, how you react when possession changes. If he plays tonight, look how Bent reacts every time possession changes.
His movement in that crucial few seconds is first class, he has excellent speed of thought, and i reckon he will make ten runs for every one where he becomes involved in play. He does a lot of decoy runs as well, trying to get behind the centre halves with the intention of pushing the opposition back line to retreat deeper and creating a wider pocket between their midfield and their defence. That then in theory should allow our midfield to play with the ball ahead of the natural game line.
[cite] AFKA Bartram:[/cite]fair argument Sooze, and can see where you are coming from. I see it slightly differently so i'll try and explain my thoughts. These below are not facts, just the way i see the game in general.
Does that make any sense ?
yeah does make sense, i just don't necessarily think bent is doign enough. i know he could score tons of goals with the midfield of arsenal behind him, and terry henry couldn't do much better playing up front for us with our midfield as it sometimes is.
but i do think although he's alert and aware and has the pace, i can't say that i'm that surprised he's being kept out of the england squad/playing team, not because he's a charlton player, but because he hasn't got something special that the others haven't got. he should be in the 21's to improve his game, rather than sit on mclaren's bench.
I don't believe we should be resting any other players either unless they have slight knocks. they need to learn to gel as a team, which they haven't done yet this season, as the team keeps changing, we need confidence and a win, and by putting in another team to play tonight, whether we win or lose tonight, it'll be another team on saturday that will have to slug away to get a result without tonights confidence, as they will be playing with different players
we need consistancy and a win. i read this morning that bolton may produce a slightly weakened team, great if so, get our 1st team out there and rack up some goals and some confidence, as if our reserves can't pull off a result, the confidence/morale on saturday will be even lower
i certainly don't think he is on fire, but he has scored 83% of our sides goals this season.
Statto! Statto! Statto!
hehe
and also perhaps its more of a case of the rest are rubbish rather than he's really good?
I know statistics are facts, but some facts are only positive because the opposite information is negative?
i think we'll be doomed if he gets injured purely because everyone seems to be relying on him to keep banging them in week in week out. which he is going to find hard to do.
[cite] AFKA Bartram:[/cite]
i think we'll be doomed if he gets injured purely because everyone seems to be relying on him to keep banging them in week in week out. which he is going to find hard to do.
Doesn't that counter your earlier point of starting / resting him tonight ?
I think he needs to start tonight because he needs to score, and we need to win and its soooo important that we get confidence for the next game, and the next and the next to get ourselves out of this hole.
why would he get injured tonight and not on saturday? we're not playing some two bob lower division side where the football skills will be lacking on some 2 bob pitch. we're playing bolton at the valley. no reason why the football quality should lessen, so no reason why any players should be rested for this reason in case they get injured otherwise we'll go through the whole season worrying about injuries.
unless, they are carrying slight injuries, which then yes, they should be rested until they are fit.
I'd rest D Bent and give M Bent a game, we only have three strikers and he hasn't done a great deal recently and we need him and JFH to be match fit and neither are firing. With Lisbie out we can't afford to have any more injuries especially upfront where we are light on numbers and Daz aside perhaps also in class and desire.
Comments
just hope they are both alright for Sat.
Be interesting if he keeps the same formation, with big bent in for little bent, kish or pouso in for faye, and ambrose in for reid.
or will he revert back to 442 ?
bent hasn't worked hard enough over the last few games imo to warrant 'having a rest'
someone needs to tell him to start to defend from the front!!!once he runs around a bit more than he is doing currently then he will deserve a rest.
the only player we should think about 'giving a rest' to is carson as we need to know we have a back up keeper for other games, ie the liverpool game.
I don't think its a case of he needs a rest, more a case of we can't afford for him to get injured...
we need him to score and gain confidence to score more, not rest him just in case he gets injured, we're playing bolton, not some lower division side who may or may not have knocked out millwall and west ham. we need to win this game, like its a league game, not because we need to concentrate on the cup, but because we need a win, against anyone in any way we can do it. we need confidence to go on and take it up to newcastle at the weekend, not a cup defeat with a poor display by our reserve side
discussing it last night at home, we've come to the conclusion that bent has to do something special to get picked for england, more than just score goals, as he knows there are more players in front of him to get the nod that do more for their clubs than just raise their own score tally.
my thing with bent is this; wayne rooney and other strikers (johnson, owen, defoe) go and get the ball from midfield, and further back, they prevent someone taking it away from them, they don't sit waiting for it, if bent isn't going to go and get it, then we need a striker that will, and bent will have to accept that even if he scores more goals for charlton this season he won't get picked for the england squad.
I don't think thats being harsh at all
Good counter suz, i can see where you are coming from too RE bent and how other strikers are in front of him.
i certainly don't think he is on fire, but he has scored 83% of our sides goals this season. We rely on him scoring goals, and if he gets injured playing in what is viewed as a 2nd rate cup, then it will be nothing but a negative for us. I personally wouldn't risk it, and would rather have him fresh for Saturday.
As for strikers, there are three types. A target man a la Crouch, Heskey etc. One that drops into the pocket between the back 4 and the midfield, a la Rooney, or one that plays off the shoulder of the last defender, like Bent, Defoe.
Of the last group, two things are important when our side is in possession of the ball; their movement when they are the last man, the need for the midfield to join them when the ball is wide to allow them the opportunity to find space in the box and get the defenders confused, and the quality of the service they receive. I don't think when we have the ball wide we have filled the box too well, and i don't think we have provided much quality delivery in the final third either.
There are three seperate categories that break up a game, when you are in possession, when not in possession, and the most important of all, how you react when possession changes. If he plays tonight, look how Bent reacts every time possession changes.
His movement in that crucial few seconds is first class, he has excellent speed of thought, and i reckon he will make ten runs for every one where he becomes involved in play. He does a lot of decoy runs as well, trying to get behind the centre halves with the intention of pushing the opposition back line to retreat deeper and creating a wider pocket between their midfield and their defence. That then in theory should allow our midfield to play with the ball ahead of the natural game line.
Does that make any sense ?
The Prem is far more important than the Carling and the last thing we need are more injuries or suspensions against a physical side like Bolton.
Myhre / Andersen
Sankofa
Fortune
El Karkouri
Ashton
Sam
Pouso
Kish (Holland if Kish in the frame for the Geordies)
Ambrose(if fit otherwise Hughes)
Thomas
Bent M
If Traore and or Sorondo are fit enough sub them for Fortune and El K.
yeah does make sense, i just don't necessarily think bent is doign enough. i know he could score tons of goals with the midfield of arsenal behind him, and terry henry couldn't do much better playing up front for us with our midfield as it sometimes is.
but i do think although he's alert and aware and has the pace, i can't say that i'm that surprised he's being kept out of the england squad/playing team, not because he's a charlton player, but because he hasn't got something special that the others haven't got. he should be in the 21's to improve his game, rather than sit on mclaren's bench.
I don't believe we should be resting any other players either unless they have slight knocks. they need to learn to gel as a team, which they haven't done yet this season, as the team keeps changing, we need confidence and a win, and by putting in another team to play tonight, whether we win or lose tonight, it'll be another team on saturday that will have to slug away to get a result without tonights confidence, as they will be playing with different players
we need consistancy and a win. i read this morning that bolton may produce a slightly weakened team, great if so, get our 1st team out there and rack up some goals and some confidence, as if our reserves can't pull off a result, the confidence/morale on saturday will be even lower
Think you're about spot on with this.
Maybe Darren Bent on the subs bench??????????
Statto! Statto! Statto!
Just goes to show we don't have a great depth to our squad
hehe
and also perhaps its more of a case of the rest are rubbish rather than he's really good?
I know statistics are facts, but some facts are only positive because the opposite information is negative?
i think we'll be doomed if he gets injured purely because everyone seems to be relying on him to keep banging them in week in week out. which he is going to find hard to do.
I think he needs to start tonight because he needs to score, and we need to win and its soooo important that we get confidence for the next game, and the next and the next to get ourselves out of this hole.
why would he get injured tonight and not on saturday? we're not playing some two bob lower division side where the football skills will be lacking on some 2 bob pitch. we're playing bolton at the valley. no reason why the football quality should lessen, so no reason why any players should be rested for this reason in case they get injured otherwise we'll go through the whole season worrying about injuries.
unless, they are carrying slight injuries, which then yes, they should be rested until they are fit.
You hitting those drugs a bit hard mate ;-)