Flooded downstairs neighbour - Who pays?

Huskaris

As ever this is filed under "Charlton Life has the best experts..."

So first of all, it's not me, it's my brother (also a Charlton fan). He turned a tap on, it made a noise and then the flexible pipe leading into the tab just started flooding and couldn't be turned off, water going absolutely everywhere.

Fire brigade were called and have cut off the water supply, but the upshot of it is that it has flooded a good chunk of his flat but also downstairs' kitchen now has an inch of water, blown electrics and it's also flooded a commercial premises on the bottom floor.

He's naturally pretty panicked as this will be a lot of damage, and he has no insurance (It's a leasehold block of flats, owned by him).

I've looked online and seeing a lot of conflicting advice, but the question is, who pays?

Covered End

Similar happened to my son recently.
The freeholder’s management company had an insurance policy (with an excess) and failing that the below flat owners were responsible for their own flats.

R0TW

Well he should IMO

aliwibble

If it's leasehold, first port of call is what the lease says, but surely the building has building insurance?

Huskaris

aliwibble said:

If it's leasehold, first port of call is what the lease says, but surely the building has building insurance?

I think that makes sense, and yeah there will be building insurance, I've advised him to call them asap. 

I think the question is what the buildings insurance would actually cover as the issue is within the flats rather than the exterior/communal/structure

ElfsborgAddick

As @aliwibble says.

There will be an excess then it comes down to who is prepared to pay that.

swords_alive

Can't imagine buildings insurance will cover it, but in absence of any other cover has to be tried. I'd expect my contents insurer to cover this, and consequential losses of others. But worried now as aware not all do.

Stig

swords_alive said:

Can't imagine buildings insurance will cover it, but in absence of any other cover has to be tried. I'd expect my contents insurer to cover this, and consequential losses of others. But worried now as aware not all do.

Why not? What's the point of buildings insurance, if they don't cover situations like this? 

redman

If I was in the flat below I would certainly hold him responsible and would be looking to take legal action if he didn't arrange payment through insurance or himself. 

Covered End

redman said:

If I was in the flat below I would certainly hold him responsible and would be looking to take legal action if he didn't arrange payment through insurance or himself. 

Well you would lose in my recent experience.

Croydon

Covered End said:

Similar happened to my son recently.
The freeholder’s management company had an insurance policy (with an excess) and failing that the below flat owners were responsible for their own flats.

Mate at work is currently dealing with something similar, but is the one in the flat below getting the water damage. Are you saying that the cost doesn't get covered by the at that caused the leak? Will be useful Intel to pass on so she doesn't get her expectations up

Alwaysneil

Depends on how good your insurance is. Better policies have cover cor damage caused by leaks and also for damage caused in finding casue leak (trace and access). The latter doesnt seem relevant here as the cause of the leak is obvious. 

Hopefully there is some buildings and contents cover in place. 

LargeAddick

Had something like this in my parents flat last year. There was a leak from the flat upstairs and it wasn’t spotted for a while and eventually half their kitchen ceiling collapsed. Eventually the Management Company claimed on the blocks insurance policy as an escape of water and the owner of the flat upstairs paid the excess on the policy.

However, I’d suspect it all depends what insurance is in place and how extensive it is and also all circumstances are different so who knows.

Gribbo

Break into upstairs and leave their tap on with plug in. You can all claim off them then.

O-Randy-Hunt

Gribbo said:

Break into upstairs and leave their tap on with plug in. You can all claim off them then.

The wet bandits.

golfaddick

Huskaris said:

As ever this is filed under "Charlton Life has the best experts..."

So first of all, it's not me, it's my brother (also a Charlton fan). He turned a tap on, it made a noise and then the flexible pipe leading into the tab just started flooding and couldn't be turned off, water going absolutely everywhere.

Fire brigade were called and have cut off the water supply, but the upshot of it is that it has flooded a good chunk of his flat but also downstairs' kitchen now has an inch of water and it's also flooded a commercial premises on the bottom floor.

He's naturally pretty panicked as this will be a lot of damage, and he has no insurance (It's a leasehold block of flats, owned by him).

I've looked online and seeing a lot of conflicting advice, but the question is, who pays?

I don't quite understand. What doesn't he have insurance for ?  His flat (contents) or the whole block (buildings) ?

The buildings insurance might cover downstairs but I doubt it will cover his flat's contents (replacement of flooring, personal items, clothes etc). 

Huskaris

golfaddick said:

Huskaris said:

As ever this is filed under "Charlton Life has the best experts..."

So first of all, it's not me, it's my brother (also a Charlton fan). He turned a tap on, it made a noise and then the flexible pipe leading into the tab just started flooding and couldn't be turned off, water going absolutely everywhere.

Fire brigade were called and have cut off the water supply, but the upshot of it is that it has flooded a good chunk of his flat but also downstairs' kitchen now has an inch of water and it's also flooded a commercial premises on the bottom floor.

He's naturally pretty panicked as this will be a lot of damage, and he has no insurance (It's a leasehold block of flats, owned by him).

I've looked online and seeing a lot of conflicting advice, but the question is, who pays?

I don't quite understand. What doesn't he have insurance for ?  His flat (contents) or the whole block (buildings) ?

The buildings insurance might cover downstairs but I doubt it will cover his flat's contents (replacement of flooring, personal items, clothes etc). 

He doesn't have insurance for contents etc, but the building as a whole will have buildings insurance. 

His items don't matter, it was a sink in a utility room (nothing nice in there) that went, it's completely blown downstairs electrics as well

swords_alive

Stig said:

swords_alive said:

Can't imagine buildings insurance will cover it, but in absence of any other cover has to be tried. I'd expect my contents insurer to cover this, and consequential losses of others. But worried now as aware not all do.

Why not? What's the point of buildings insurance, if they don't cover situations like this? 

Because the buildings insurance covers the fabric of the building, I.e. the walls and the roof. Saying that a friend of mine had a leak under his bath which caused an electrical fault downstairs and buildings paid up eventually. That may be because the origin of the fault was in the void between flats, or because the fault was a blockage in the waste system, which is shared in flats.

Second reason, if there's a way for buildings insurance not  to pay they will surely take it.

The lease which make clear what is the freeholder responsibility and what is leaseholders, and each is responsible for insuring their bits. The leaseholder pays for maintenance and insurance of freeholder building regardless.

Rob7Lee

The easy answer first:

if a block of flats, 99.9% of the time all flats and communal areas, so the whole building, would usually be under one buildings policy. If that’s the case it makes life a lot easier as one insurer will deal with the entirety of the building claim, dependent on the terms there could be one excess (which likely your brother will have to pay), unusual to be more than one.

with regards to the flat/business below, as this appears to be sudden and unforeseen, there would usually be no liability attached to your brother, therefore for the other flat and business they would claim on their own policy for their contents, stock and business interruption etc and not come to your brother (not to say they won’t try if they have no insurance).

once he knows more from the freeholder/buildings insurer if you have any questions let me know. Whilst I sit on the reinsurance side of the market now, I was previously head of underwriting and claims for a fairly large UK insurer.

sadly, he’s on his own for any of his contents that are damaged. You can get very cheap minimum contents insurance these days, worth buying for the future.

Rob7Lee

redman said:

If I was in the flat below I would certainly hold him responsible and would be looking to take legal action if he didn't arrange payment through insurance or himself. 

You’d have to prove he was negligent, highly unlikely from the information at hand.