Blackwall Tunnel penalty

Valley Ant

I recently drove through the tunnel and tried to pay the next day.

The first screen invited me to set up an autopay account, which I did, thinking that the fee would be collected through this.

A few weeks later I received a penalty notice.

I rang TFL and was told that the autopay account needed to be set up before I travelled, but that I could try appealing to explain what had happened.

So I appealed online. When I pressed the submit button it took me back to the start screen, which I thought was odd.

This worried me, so I sent it again, with the same result. I sent it again the next day, with the same result, so I assumed that was the system.

I have now received a letter telling me the penalty has been doubled as I didn't reply.

I am obviously not happy that I feel I am being screwed, and would like to argue my case.

I would appreciate your advice on whether I would be wasting my time or not. I feel that TFL is not going to listen and that my charges are just going to go up.

Thank you.

carly burn

Worth a try but doubt you'll get any joy.
As you said,Auto pay is setting up a payment method prior to any travel through the tunnel. It won't take the money if you set it up after you travel.
Doubling the fine is a bit harsh. 

Could try the local MP and have a vent.

https://members.parliament.uk/member/4790/contact

GD78

Exactly the same happened to me earlier this year. Tried to appeal but got nowhere. The people on the other end of the phone were very much 'computer says no'.

When the dart charge came in, any 1st time fines got waived from memory, no such thing with TFL.

Valley Ant

When I went to pay for the trip originally, the screen suggested setting up an autopay account, so I assumed this would settle the account.

It's very irritating to be penalised (twice) whilst trying to follow the rules.

O-Randy-Hunt

GD78 said:

Exactly the same happened to me earlier this year. Tried to appeal but got nowhere. The people on the other end of the phone were very much 'computer says no'.

When the dart charge came in, any 1st time fines got waived from memory, no such thing with TFL.

Still does. I got one a couple months ago and they just let you pay the £2.50.

cafcnick1992

I went through this EXACT situation about 3 weeks ago. We set up an autopay account after driving through the tunnel, only to get a penalty letter.

We appealled the letter, including evidence that an autopay account had been set up, and we were let off the fine.

letthegoodtimesroll

Would asking TFL for numbers of drivers that have been caught out by the auto pay issue be something that has to be provided under the freedom of information act ? 

Is it clearly signposted that you have to have an account set up first so that drivers on the public highway that have to use the Blackwall tunnel to continue their journey in that public highway know they have to stop before entering the tunnel ?

housemate

My daughter changed her car a few weeks back. She already had autopay set up for her old car so just updated the change on their website. Banner at top of page indicated all set up so was surprised to receive a fine through the post. Turns out you have to scroll down the page & tick a box next to the new vehicle to confirm you want it collected by autopay !  She appealed & included screen shots showing how misleading their website is & was successful.

I know it's a slightly different scenario but might be worth you appealing on the same grounds, particularly with regards to your attempts to submit one previously. When you appeal they freeze any increase until it has been dealt with so you may at least be able to argue that they should allow you to appeal and/or put the fine back to the original amount.

Their website is awful & nowhere near as user friendly has the Dart Charge.  Good luck.  

guinnessaddick

I set up an auto pay account before the tunnel opened. I’ve only used the tunnel once where I had to pay the toll. It took almost 5 weeks for TFL to take the money.

buckshee

Went through a couple of Sundays ago, you here three days to pay, I paid the next day then also setup auto pay. A week later they’ve sent me a fine. I’ve sent the receipt to them and just waiting to hear back. 

Chizz

1. Don't ignore the letter 
2. Write a formal complaint, immediately (suggested text below).  Send it by email to roadusercharging@tfl.gov.uk and by recorded post to TfL Road User Charging Correspondence, PO Box 335, Darlington, DL1 9PU3. 
3. Attach evidence, e.g. screenshot or description of attempts to pay; details of appeal attempts (with approximate dates and times); copy of penalty notices and the doubling letter. 
4. Request they treat this as a formal complaint and re-open the appeal. If TfL rejects or ignores the complaint, you can escalate it to the London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) once you receive a “Notice of Rejection”.

If the matter goes to debt recovery, you can also make a statutory declaration to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) that you never received a response to your appeal - this resets the process. 

---

Text for email/letter: 

Subject: Formal Complaint - Unfair Penalty Charge and System Error on Appeal Submission

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding Penalty Charge Notice [insert PCN number] issued following my journey through the tunnel on [insert date].

I acted in good faith to pay the required charge the following day. When I went online, the system invited me to set up an Auto Pay account, which I did, believing this would settle the outstanding toll. At no point did the site make it clear that the account had to be set up in advance of travel.

Some weeks later, I received a Penalty Charge Notice. I immediately contacted TfL and was advised to appeal, which I did - on multiple occasions - through your online appeal system. Each time I pressed “submit”, the website looped back to the start screen without any confirmation that my appeal had been received. I repeated this several times on consecutive days, assuming this was how your system functioned.

Despite these efforts, I have now received a letter stating that the penalty has been increased on the grounds that I did not respond. This is incorrect and wholly unfair, as I both attempted to pay and attempted to appeal promptly, but your online system failed to process my submissions.

I therefore request that:

- The increased penalty be immediately frozen or suspended pending investigation.
- My case be reviewed in full, and the original penalty cancelled on the grounds of system failure and reasonable attempts to comply.
- You confirm receipt of this complaint in writing.

I trust that TfL will acknowledge that a technical issue has prevented due process and that I should not be penalised for acting in good faith. Please confirm that this complaint has been logged and that enforcement action is paused while it is being investigated.

Yours faithfully, 

Your name
Your address 
Your email address 
Your phone number 

--- 

After 10 working days, if no satisfactory reply:

- Write to the TfL Customer Services Manager referencing the complaint number.

- If still unresolved, escalate to the London Tribunals (for appeal rights) or, after the process ends, to the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO). 

(PS I only opened this thread because I thought it was about Nicky Bailey). 

Southendaddick

Happened to me for the Wycombe play off managed to set up an account after I’d paid the fine funnily enough

And people in London keep voting for Sadiq Khan…

SE10Addick

The website for paying the Blackwall Tunnel is absolutely diabolical.

I work in tech. I've always worked on websites. I've worked on designing and building websites. But even I got stupidly confused when trying to pay the fee.

Without getting political, it's almost like they want you to fail....

buckshee

Has anyone got a phone number to contact them on? It’s like some sort of secret society trying to speak to anyone. 

Redhenry

I've had similar on Dartford.
Pay it and move on, you can drive yourself crazy with this nonsense stuff, no pun intended...

clive

buckshee said:

Has anyone got a phone number to contact them on? It’s like some sort of secret society trying to speak to anyone. 

Phone

You can also contact us by phone:

UK: 0343 222 2222 (TfL call charges)
International: +44 (0)343 222 2222
Textphone: 020 7649 9123 (if you have impaired hearing)

Lines are open:

Monday to Friday: 08:00-20:00
Closed on weekends and bank holidays

You can also view our complaints procedure.

Fleet Auto Pay

UK: 0343 222 2222 (TfL call charges)
International: +44 (0)343 222 2222
Textphone: 020 7649 9123 (if you have impaired hearing)

Lines are open:

Monday to Friday: 08:00-20:00
Closed on weekends and bank holidays

Challenging a PCN

Do not use the complaints procedure to challenge the validity of a penalty charge after you receive a PCN. Disputes over penalty charges have their own statutory representations and appeals procedure.

Find out how to challenge a PCN.

If you need to speak to us about a PCN:

Phone: 0343 222 3333 (call charges may apply)

Open 08:00-20:00 Monday to Friday

 https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/silvertown-blackwall-tunnels-charge/contact-tuc

buckshee

Nice one, thanks. 

golfaddick

Were you travelling at peak time ? If so were you part of the South London enclave that is being discriminated against. 

Valley Ant

golfaddick said:

Were you travelling at peak time ? If so were you part of the South London enclave that is being discriminated against. 

I was travelling to an Oasis concert at Wembley on a Sunday. 
I was diverted away from the Dartford Crossing due to heavy traffic.

Valley Ant

Chizz said:

1. Don't ignore the letter 
2. Write a formal complaint, immediately (suggested text below).  Send it by email to roadusercharging@tfl.gov.uk and by recorded post to TfL Road User Charging Correspondence, PO Box 335, Darlington, DL1 9PU3. 
3. Attach evidence, e.g. screenshot or description of attempts to pay; details of appeal attempts (with approximate dates and times); copy of penalty notices and the doubling letter. 
4. Request they treat this as a formal complaint and re-open the appeal. If TfL rejects or ignores the complaint, you can escalate it to the London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) once you receive a “Notice of Rejection”.

If the matter goes to debt recovery, you can also make a statutory declaration to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) that you never received a response to your appeal - this resets the process. 

---

Text for email/letter: 

Subject: Formal Complaint - Unfair Penalty Charge and System Error on Appeal Submission

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding Penalty Charge Notice [insert PCN number] issued following my journey through the tunnel on [insert date].

I acted in good faith to pay the required charge the following day. When I went online, the system invited me to set up an Auto Pay account, which I did, believing this would settle the outstanding toll. At no point did the site make it clear that the account had to be set up in advance of travel.

Some weeks later, I received a Penalty Charge Notice. I immediately contacted TfL and was advised to appeal, which I did - on multiple occasions - through your online appeal system. Each time I pressed “submit”, the website looped back to the start screen without any confirmation that my appeal had been received. I repeated this several times on consecutive days, assuming this was how your system functioned.

Despite these efforts, I have now received a letter stating that the penalty has been increased on the grounds that I did not respond. This is incorrect and wholly unfair, as I both attempted to pay and attempted to appeal promptly, but your online system failed to process my submissions.

I therefore request that:

- The increased penalty be immediately frozen or suspended pending investigation.
- My case be reviewed in full, and the original penalty cancelled on the grounds of system failure and reasonable attempts to comply.
- You confirm receipt of this complaint in writing.

I trust that TfL will acknowledge that a technical issue has prevented due process and that I should not be penalised for acting in good faith. Please confirm that this complaint has been logged and that enforcement action is paused while it is being investigated.

Yours faithfully, 

Your name
Your address 
Your email address 
Your phone number 

--- 

After 10 working days, if no satisfactory reply:

- Write to the TfL Customer Services Manager referencing the complaint number.

- If still unresolved, escalate to the London Tribunals (for appeal rights) or, after the process ends, to the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO). 

(PS I only opened this thread because I thought it was about Nicky Bailey). 

Wow. Thanks for your help. 
I'll do this tomorrow. 

Zulu

I had a 90 pound fine from TFL for Blackwall Tunnel.
I had attempted to pay online but system provided an error - however when i checked my bank it showed that payment had gone through, so i left it......until..... 1 month later i get a fine . When i checked my bank again, it said that payment had been rejected.
Bottom line is i represented it and they cancelled the fine.

Off_it

Valley Ant said:

golfaddick said:

Were you travelling at peak time ? If so were you part of the South London enclave that is being discriminated against. 

I was travelling to an Oasis concert at Wembley on a Sunday. 
I was diverted away from the Dartford Crossing due to heavy traffic.

It's all part of the Masterplan.