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The Blitz

ShootersHillGuruShootersHillGuru
in Not Sports Related
I don’t pretend to be a student of this period but I thought I was reasonably clued up. I watched a tv programme last night fronted by Robert Rinder and Historian Ruth Goodman. The period in focus was the London blitz, starting in September 1940. Decent enough programme but it mentioned something that I was totally unaware of. Before the German Luftwaffe bombed London for the first time on 7th September 1940, The RAF bomber command had carried out a bombing raid on Berlin on 25th August. Infuriating Hitler that he raged that London would be flattened. Perhaps I should have known about our raid before the German retaliation but I didn’t. I’m sure a good number of you will have far more knowledge than I obviously have. Any comments
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Comments

  • Off_itOff_it
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Yes... Apparently at the start of the Battle of Britain, the Germans focused their attention on flattening the airfields, which was hurting the RAF, as they couldn't invade Britain without first clearing the air.

    The Germans accidentally bombed London one night, so we retaliated by bombing Berlin - As a result Hitler got so pissed off, he gave the Luftwaffe free reign into bombing London, which in turn took their attention away from bombing the airfields, and so gave the RAF the time to recover.
    When you say "accidentally" , it wasn't as if a German pilot was out for a little flight one day and as he went over London the bomb doors suddenly flew open and a load of bombs he didn't know he was carrying all fell out! 
  • cafc999cafc999
    Good to see Charlton's @SE7toSG3 on the show helping out with the stirrup pump
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    edited July 25
    Off_it said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Yes... Apparently at the start of the Battle of Britain, the Germans focused their attention on flattening the airfields, which was hurting the RAF, as they couldn't invade Britain without first clearing the air.

    The Germans accidentally bombed London one night, so we retaliated by bombing Berlin - As a result Hitler got so pissed off, he gave the Luftwaffe free reign into bombing London, which in turn took their attention away from bombing the airfields, and so gave the RAF the time to recover.
    When you say "accidentally" , it wasn't as if a German pilot was out for a little flight one day and as he went over London the bomb doors suddenly flew open and a load of bombs he didn't know he was carrying all fell out! 
    No they just happened to miss their night time target, and didn't realise that they were dropping their payload over London before they returned home, because of the blackout.
  • LargeAddickLargeAddick
    cafc999 said:
    Good to see Charlton's @SE7toSG3 on the show helping out with the stirrup pump
    It was nice to see Clive’s involvement but it reminded me of that scene in Gavin and Stacey where Mick Shipman found a dead body and was interviewed for half an hour but was on screen for 30 seconds. I wonder how much filming Clive had to do for his two all too brief cameos?
  • Karim_myBagheriKarim_myBagheri
    edited July 25
    Watched "Battle of Britain" again the other week and all of that is in the film. A squadron of german bombers got lost in bad weather so released their cargo of bombs on London as they over shot their target and wanted to get home. 

    This led to the RAF hitting Berlin as a retaliation. Pretty much the next scene is Hitler giving a speech saying they will take revenge for daring to bomb Berlin by raising London to the ground.

    This ended up giving the RAF breathing space in the south east and meant our other RAF bases further north could scramble their fighter planes against the German bombers who were going further inland to get to London and other cities. 
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Karim_myBagheri said:
    Watched battle of Britain the other week and all of that is in the film. A squadron of german bombers got lost in bad weather so released their cargo of bombs on London as they over shot their target and wanted to get home. 

    This led to the RAF hitting Berlin as a retaliation. Pretty much the next scene is Hitler giving a speech saying they will take revenge for daring to bomb Berlin by raising London to the ground.

    This ended up giving the RAF breathing space in the south east and meant our other RAF bases further north could scramble their fighter planes against the German bombers who were going further inland to get to London and other cities. 
    Their bombers were also going beyond the range of their fighter escort, so made it easier for our fighters to solely target them.
  • PemburyAddickPemburyAddick
    The Luftwaffe had been carrying out nuisance raids at night, including docks and cities, in the midlands and north west, a long time before September 1940. Ironically the Luftwaffe daylight raids after September were far more testing for the RAF, as they used decoy runs and multiple smaller short distance raids to lure the RAF fighters up early/late. The Luftwaffe combined this with fighter sweeps. Autumn weather and a Luftwaffe decision to switch assets elsewhere at that stage were a life saver. This is a real simplification, but I think the inability to achieve a quick win and casualty rates for the Luftwaffe were the ultimate decider.
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  • Raith_C_ChattonellRaith_C_Chattonell
    My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken.  It was her 21st birthday.  



    From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute.  The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow. 
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I don’t pretend to be a student of this period but I thought I was reasonably clued up. I watched a tv programme last night fronted by Robert Rinder and Historian Ruth Goodman. The period in focus was the London blitz, starting in September 1940. Decent enough programme but it mentioned something that I was totally unaware of. Before the German Luftwaffe bombed London for the first time on 7th September 1940, The RAF bomber command had carried out a bombing raid on Berlin on 25th August. Infuriating Hitler that he raged that London would be flattened. Perhaps I should have known about our raid before the German retaliation but I didn’t. I’m sure a good number of you will have far more knowledge than I obviously have. Any comments
    It didn't take a lot to infuriate Hitler. There are still some that would argue the Holocaust was "retaliation" as well. 

    They would have bombed London and other cities irrespective of the "provocation" once they had lost the Battle of Britain.
  • AddicksAddictAddicksAddict
    Henry Irving said:
    The Germans had also destroyed Warsaw and Rotterdam with bombing long before the first attacks on London.

    They did not need any excuse to bomb other cities.  It was not a "retaliation". 
    Well, the bombing of Warsaw and Rotterdam were both part of invasions.  The bombing of London after we'd bombed Berlin is pretty much accepted as retaliation.  That's not to say the Nazis were nice people and needed an excuse to commit atrocities.
  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    I always thought that the Germans didn't see us as a natural enemy, and that they wanted to be "friends" with us... Well you saw how they were "friends" with the Russians at the start of the War, and how that turned out.

    As a result bombing London was technically off limits?
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    First come first served...as this doesn't come up for sale very often.

    Written over 40 years ago but a detailed overview of The Blitz and how south east London was impacted.




  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    The follow up is even rarer. Happy hunting.


  • ShootersHillGuruShootersHillGuru
    Thankyou one and all for filling in the many gaps in my knowledge on this. I knew it was worth the opening post 👍
  • Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    SporadicAddick said:
    The follow up is even rarer. Happy hunting.


    Thanks @SporadicAddick I have the Bromley and Greenwich Lewis Blake books and just bought this on ebay for £18.
  • EastStandEastStand
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:
    My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken.  It was her 21st birthday.  



    From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute.  
    The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow. 
    “The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow.” 

    A true Brit 🫡
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  • AndyGAndyG
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:
    My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken.  It was her 21st birthday.  



    From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute.  The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow. 
    When you think about the amount of bombs that hit London it’s astonishing that we have as much as we do left
  • Big WilliamBig William
    Henry Irving said:
    The Germans had also destroyed Warsaw and Rotterdam with bombing long before the first attacks on London.

    They did not need any excuse to bomb other cities.  It was not a "retaliation". 
    My Dad and Uncle were evacuated to Brixham in Devon, which got bombed (and straffed) before anything had happened in London.
  • AndyGAndyG
    My Dad and his brother were evacuated from Bow. They were 5 & 8 years old after a week they ran away and made their way back to Bow lol
  • Lewis CoachesLewis Coaches
    edited July 25
    The first bombing of Berlin occurred on the 7th of June 1940. It was carried out by the French Naval Aviation Unit.

    The Germans first dropped bombs on London on the night of 24th Aug 1940.

    Berlin was bombed by the RAF on the night of 25/26 Aug 1940.

    First day of The Blitz 7th Sept 1940.
    Resulting in 430 deaths in London and 1600 injured.


    Sure a few more knowledgeable people will be able to comment further.

    I have over the years gathered information about the Vengeance Rockets. V1,V2 and V3 and V4s.

    V4s being launched on Antwerp on Dec 24th 1944.
  • LincsaddickLincsaddick
    Scene in (I think) 'The Battle of Britain' .. where Hitler is saying (I paraphrase) 'If an English bomb falls on Berlin, you can call me Meyer (a good old Jewish German name)'

    Luftwaffe fighter pilots in France (in 1940) raise a toast: 'Heil Meyer' .. (I doubt they would have dared to do that outside of a scriptwriter's imagination)
  • LincsaddickLincsaddick
    Henry Irving said:
    The Germans had also destroyed Warsaw and Rotterdam with bombing long before the first attacks on London.

    They did not need any excuse to bomb other cities.  It was not a "retaliation". 
    and during the Spanish civil war, the lutwaffe flattened the Basque town Guernica (as portrayed by Picaso) and other Spanish towns as 'practice' for the European war the German military was planning for.
  • se9addickse9addick
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:
    My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken.  It was her 21st birthday.  



    From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute.  The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow. 
    This is one of, maybe the, most iconic pictures of London. A year or two ago I was out for drinks with a colleague who had just transferred here from Canada. Our work is just round the corner from St Paul’s so I drunkenly showed her this picture and then blathered on about how amazing the photo was, how important St Paul’s is to Londoners and how this picture showed the spirit of resistance of the WW2 generation. 
  • AddicksAddictAddicksAddict
    Lewis Coaches said:
    The first bombing of Berlin occurred on the 7th of June 1940. It was carried out by the French Naval Aviation Unit.

    The Germans first dropped bombs on London on the night of 24th Aug 1940.

    Berlin was bombed by the RAF on the night of 25/26 Aug 1940.

    First day of Battle of Britain 7th Sept 1940.
    Resulting in 430 deaths in London and 1600 injured.


    Sure a few more knowledgeable people will be able to comment further.

    I have over the years gathered information about the Vengeance Rockets. V1,V2 and V3 and V4s.

    V4s being launched on Antwerp on Dec 24th 1944.
     Battle of Britain generally accepted as 10 July – 31 October 1940, although the dates, particularly the end, aren’t definite. Not sure where you’re getting 7th September from. 

    Didn’t know about the V4. 
  • Off_itOff_it
    edited July 25
    se9addick said:
    Raith_C_Chattonell said:
    My dear departed mother-in-law was a stones throw away in Islington when this iconic picture was taken.  It was her 21st birthday.  



    From the program last night I learnt that the Germans dropped 100,000 incendiary bombs during the seven hour raid - roughly 300 a minute.  The story goes that she still managed a few drinks somehow. 
    This is one of, maybe the, most iconic pictures of London. A year or two ago I was out for drinks with a colleague who had just transferred here from Canada. Our work is just round the corner from St Paul’s so I drunkenly showed her this picture and then blathered on about how amazing the photo was, how important St Paul’s is to Londoners and how this picture showed the spirit of resistance of the WW2 generation. 
    Taken from The Savoy, I believe. Clouds of smoke everywhere from various fires, and then suddenly St Paul's emerged in the distance, photographer snapped it and then it disappeared again.

    Iconic is an often overused word, but certainly not in this case. 

    I work near St Paul's now and will often just gaze up at it in awe.
  • Lewis CoachesLewis Coaches
    AddicksAddict said:
    Lewis Coaches said:
    The first bombing of Berlin occurred on the 7th of June 1940. It was carried out by the French Naval Aviation Unit.

    The Germans first dropped bombs on London on the night of 24th Aug 1940.

    Berlin was bombed by the RAF on the night of 25/26 Aug 1940.

    First day of Battle of Britain 7th Sept 1940.
    Resulting in 430 deaths in London and 1600 injured.


    Sure a few more knowledgeable people will be able to comment further.

    I have over the years gathered information about the Vengeance Rockets. V1,V2 and V3 and V4s.

    V4s being launched on Antwerp on Dec 24th 1944.
     Battle of Britain generally accepted as 10 July – 31 October 1940, although the dates, particularly the end, aren’t definite. Not sure where you’re getting 7th September from. 

    Didn’t know about the V4. 
    Sorry my mind is else way at the moment.

    The Blitz.
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