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  Henry Irving

  January 2017

  25 first team players not counting Ba or Kashi

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  harveys_gardener

  January 2017

  Henry Irving said:

  25 first team players not counting Ba or Kashi

  Nine of whom are on loan or out of contract and are unlikely to be with us next year. Add Igor, Cebalos, Sarr and likely Watt, Ajose and Lennon. So we have a total rebuild at the end of season, with KR possibly gone as we are looking unlikely to make the play-offs.
  
  Lessons learnt?

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  cantersaddick

  January 2017 edited January 2017

  With the formation KR favours and current injuries to strikers I feel we could do with one more up top. That is assuming Ajose leaves. That leaves
  
  Magennis, Novak, new, Hanlan for the leading the line role.
  
  Watt, KAG, Umerah if we want to go 2 up top or bring one on late in the game to run at their defense.
  
  The area I think we look weakest is wingers. Especially as KR likes to play 2 wingers.
  
  Holmes, Byrne, Botaka, Dasilva doesn't instill me with confidence... even if you add Chicksen to that I'm just not sure.
  
  Holmes is obviously class and I hope he can stay fit for the rest of the season. Byrne looked good at the weekend. For me the jury is still out on Botaka, I hope he comes back from ACON in brilliant form but for me he's looked better in 10 mins cameos than when he's started or got half an hour... DaSilva is very young. I expect him to be a good player but not sure how much of a part he will play this year.
  
  Obviously lookman was class but I'm not sure we have got anyone close to replacing him.
  
  And I still think when need to replace Foley. A back up right back/utility player, that would allow Konsa to play in his right position rather than be a gap fill all the time.
  
  So I would like to see ins:
  Striker
  Winger
  Utility player
  Wouldn't say no to a no 10 as well.
  
  Outs:
  Ajose
  Ba
  Couple of youth players on loan.
  
  But we know that Roly doesn't do squads so we will wait with much anticipation.

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  cantersaddick

  January 2017

  How many loans are we allowed in the squad.

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  Henry Irving

  January 2017

  cantersaddick said:

  How many loans are we allowed in the squad.

  7 but only 5 in the 18 man squad

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  kentred2

  January 2017

  Weak, unbalanced and short term. But they have only been in charge for three years.

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  cantersaddick

  January 2017

  Henry Irving said:

  cantersaddick said:

  How many loans are we allowed in the squad.

  7 but only 5 in the 18 man squad

  Cheers. And we've got 5? so really only worth getting one more at most..

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  simonmatthews

  January 2017

  I make that 31-32 players with first team experience. Compared to the clubs around us - and above us - in the same league that's not bad at all. Checking out the other clubs most of them are reliant on young players too. I guess we should exclude Ba and Kashi which brings us back to 29-30. Still not bad.

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  sam3110

  January 2017

  I'd like another winger, a right back, a number 10 and another striker, at the expense of Johnson, Ba and possibly Ajose, though I'd rather keep him and get him firing

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  benjest1989

  January 2017

  Think we should send Dasilva back already.

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  cabbles

  January 2017

  Naby Sarr signed until 2020. Good God, I'd forgotten about that

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  SouthWest_Addicks

  January 2017

  We have plenty of players but not enough quality in the vital positions.
  
  If you want good strikers and attacking midfielders you have to pay the money. It is that simple.

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  Henry Irving

  January 2017

  SouthWest_Addicks said:

  We have plenty of players but not enough quality in the vital positions.
  
  If you want good strikers and attacking midfielders you have to pay the money. It is that simple.

  or develop them.
  
  And to be fair we reportedly paid £700k for Ajose, £250k for Magennis (both big fees for this level) and offered a lot more in wages to Novak than other league clubs were willing to do. Who can guess how much Watt is on compared to the rest of the team?
  
  What continues to kill us is the wages being spent on players who aren't playing either because of injury (Kashi) or because they were bought by Driesen/Meire and given silly money which no one else will pay. Consequently they either sit around or on the bench waiting for their contracts to run down (Johnson and Ba) or are out on loan (Sarr, Cebellos, Vetokele). Watt too but he's back again so another manager has a go at turning him around.

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  blackpool72

  January 2017

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

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  Athletico Charlton

  January 2017

  blackpool72 said:

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

  This is exactly what I was thinking as I read through the squad.
  

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  grumpyaddick

  January 2017

  blackpool72 said:

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

  Take away the children, the injured, the unfit, the midgets, the useless and the loanees and we have Solly standing on a box.

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  blackpool72

  January 2017

  grumpyaddick said:

  blackpool72 said:

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

  Take away the children, the injured, the unfit, the midgets, the useless and the loanees and we have Solly standing on a box.

  Pretty much yes

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  AddicksAddict

  January 2017

  grumpyaddick said:

  blackpool72 said:

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

  Take away the children, the injured, the unfit, the midgets, the useless and the loanees and we have Solly standing on a box.

  Did we get the box on a loan or did we buy it?

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  grumpyaddick

  January 2017

  AddicksAddict said:

  grumpyaddick said:

  blackpool72 said:

  Take away the players on loan and the ones out of contract this summer and the squad is still woefully inadequate.
  Add to this those that will be sold in the summer and it leaves another rebuild.
  Totally underwhelmed

  Take away the children, the injured, the unfit, the midgets, the useless and the loanees and we have Solly standing on a box.

  Did we get the box on a loan or did we buy it?

  Part exchange for that bloody sofa

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  LenGlover

  January 2017 edited January 2017

  Don't laugh me out of court but do we have a recall right re Sarr?
  
  He has to be a better option than Johnson if Pearce, Lennon and Bauer are injured long term.

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  blackpool72

  January 2017

  LenGlover said:

  Don't laugh me out of court but do we have a recall right re Sarr?
  
  He has to be a better option than Johnson if Pearce, Lennon and Bauer are injured long term.

  Sarr or Johnson.
  It's a bit like saying palarce or millwank

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  Davo55

  January 2017

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

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  EveshamAddick

  January 2017

  I posted this on another thread, all information from wikipedia, and it doesn't include u23 squad members:
  
  CAFC first team squad: 26 (inc 5 loans) this includes the invisible man, Ba
  Scunthorpe: 27 (3 loans)
  Fleetwood: 32 (4 loans)
  Rochdale:32 (1 loan)
  Wimbledon: 29 (0 loans)
  Oldham: 22 (2 loans)
  Oxford: 27 (2 loans)
  Bury: 33 (4 loans)
  Shrewsbury: 27 (2 loans)

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  SDAddick

  January 2017

  Davo55 said:

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

  I do still feel like we have slightly too high expectations for League One. This isn't a brilliant league. And yes, I know we're in mid-table, but Holmes, Magennis, Pearce, Bauer, Rudd, Texeira, JFC, Watt, Solly are all top players at this level. Same might be said of in form Nathan Byrne, Nicky Ajose, and maybe even Andrew Crofts. The issue is we've never had all of those players (or the departed Lookman and Fox) on the pitch at once.
  
  I agree with you Davo that we need some more quality, particularly in the attacking third. But I don't think we're that far away. I've made the same point over on the match preview thread that I think one of our biggest problems is that January just isn't meant to build a squad, it's meant to tweak squads. And here we are, once again, needing to rebuild a squad. And short of paying 1m for the likes of Dempsey or Reeves, we just may not be able to get players in with the quality we need.
  
  It's a great lesson, once again, to build better squads in the summer. I think Slade has to carry the can for some of that, given how poor and immobile our team was.
  
  Lastly, I'd have Naby Sarr back. I think he's very raw but there is a fair amount to work with there. But I don't know that calling him back now (depending on how long Bauer is out) would make a lot of sense. According to Wikipedia, he's played 17 times for Red Star this season, anyone have any idea how he's done?

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  harveys_gardener

  January 2017

  Terrell Thomas back from Woking might be the easier way to go. At least he knows English football and is doing well there.
  
  Worrying that the huge gaps that appeared in our squad were nearly a week ago, with the window open and no movement. 2 players with little game time and an EFL novice is the sum of our transfer movement, with quality leaving. Top 6 is disappearing over the horizon.

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  cantersaddick

  January 2017

  harveys gardener said:

  Terrell Thomas back from Woking might be the easier way to go. At least he knows English football and is doing well there.
  
  Worrying that the huge gaps that appeared in our squad were nearly a week ago, with the window open and no movement. 2 players with little game time and an EFL novice is the sum of our transfer movement, with quality leaving. Top 6 is disappearing over the horizon.

  Agree with Thomas but it was probably a little too late to call him back for this game and Tex and probably Bauer will be back for the next match and Lennon can't be too far behind. Suddenly we're okay there and we've recalled a kid from a loan where he was doing well just to Sir on the bench for 2 games.

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  Davo55

  January 2017

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

  I do still feel like we have slightly too high expectations for League One. This isn't a brilliant league. And yes, I know we're in mid-table, but Holmes, Magennis, Pearce, Bauer, Rudd, Texeira, JFC, Watt, Solly are all top players at this level. Same might be said of in form Nathan Byrne, Nicky Ajose, and maybe even Andrew Crofts. The issue is we've never had all of those players (or the departed Lookman and Fox) on the pitch at once.
  
  I agree with you Davo that we need some more quality, particularly in the attacking third. But I don't think we're that far away. I've made the same point over on the match preview thread that I think one of our biggest problems is that January just isn't meant to build a squad, it's meant to tweak squads. And here we are, once again, needing to rebuild a squad. And short of paying 1m for the likes of Dempsey or Reeves, we just may not be able to get players in with the quality we need.
  
  It's a great lesson, once again, to build better squads in the summer. I think Slade has to carry the can for some of that, given how poor and immobile our team was.
  
  Lastly, I'd have Naby Sarr back. I think he's very raw but there is a fair amount to work with there. But I don't know that calling him back now (depending on how long Bauer is out) would make a lot of sense. According to Wikipedia, he's played 17 times for Red Star this season, anyone have any idea how he's done?

  Agree about the lesson not being learned but not so sure it was down to Slade. With RD holding the purse strings tightly and Km doing her usual negotiating "masterclass" I suspect it was more about his targets/wish list not being delivered.
  
  Something that I'm sure is now happening to Robinson. Only difference being that it seems Robinson can adjust his sights/comments to suit the constraints - but that doesn't lead to us having a high quality first eleven or a squad more able to cope with injuries and absences.

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  SDAddick

  January 2017

  Davo55 said:

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

  I do still feel like we have slightly too high expectations for League One. This isn't a brilliant league. And yes, I know we're in mid-table, but Holmes, Magennis, Pearce, Bauer, Rudd, Texeira, JFC, Watt, Solly are all top players at this level. Same might be said of in form Nathan Byrne, Nicky Ajose, and maybe even Andrew Crofts. The issue is we've never had all of those players (or the departed Lookman and Fox) on the pitch at once.
  
  I agree with you Davo that we need some more quality, particularly in the attacking third. But I don't think we're that far away. I've made the same point over on the match preview thread that I think one of our biggest problems is that January just isn't meant to build a squad, it's meant to tweak squads. And here we are, once again, needing to rebuild a squad. And short of paying 1m for the likes of Dempsey or Reeves, we just may not be able to get players in with the quality we need.
  
  It's a great lesson, once again, to build better squads in the summer. I think Slade has to carry the can for some of that, given how poor and immobile our team was.
  
  Lastly, I'd have Naby Sarr back. I think he's very raw but there is a fair amount to work with there. But I don't know that calling him back now (depending on how long Bauer is out) would make a lot of sense. According to Wikipedia, he's played 17 times for Red Star this season, anyone have any idea how he's done?

  Agree about the lesson not being learned but not so sure it was down to Slade. With RD holding the purse strings tightly and Km doing her usual negotiating "masterclass" I suspect it was more about his targets/wish list not being delivered.
  
  Something that I'm sure is now happening to Robinson. Only difference being that it seems Robinson can adjust his sights/comments to suit the constraints - but that doesn't lead to us having a high quality first eleven or a squad more able to cope with injuries and absences.

  But Slade is the one who decided to fight over Foley and Crofts as central midfielders. And we chased Louis Thompson, a Norwich reserve, until seemingly the 11th hour. If we're going to call for managers to have control over transfers (and I've stated many times I'd rather we had a Director of Football for continuity), then they have to have a broad scope of transfer targets. That, to me, is the exact reason why you don't want to give managers that power, as they have enough work coaching the team.

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  JamesSeed

  January 2017

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

  I do still feel like we have slightly too high expectations for League One. This isn't a brilliant league. And yes, I know we're in mid-table, but Holmes, Magennis, Pearce, Bauer, Rudd, Texeira, JFC, Watt, Solly are all top players at this level. Same might be said of in form Nathan Byrne, Nicky Ajose, and maybe even Andrew Crofts. The issue is we've never had all of those players (or the departed Lookman and Fox) on the pitch at once.
  
  I agree with you Davo that we need some more quality, particularly in the attacking third. But I don't think we're that far away. I've made the same point over on the match preview thread that I think one of our biggest problems is that January just isn't meant to build a squad, it's meant to tweak squads. And here we are, once again, needing to rebuild a squad. And short of paying 1m for the likes of Dempsey or Reeves, we just may not be able to get players in with the quality we need.
  
  It's a great lesson, once again, to build better squads in the summer. I think Slade has to carry the can for some of that, given how poor and immobile our team was.
  
  Lastly, I'd have Naby Sarr back. I think he's very raw but there is a fair amount to work with there. But I don't know that calling him back now (depending on how long Bauer is out) would make a lot of sense. According to Wikipedia, he's played 17 times for Red Star this season, anyone have any idea how he's done?

  Agree about the lesson not being learned but not so sure it was down to Slade. With RD holding the purse strings tightly and Km doing her usual negotiating "masterclass" I suspect it was more about his targets/wish list not being delivered.
  
  Something that I'm sure is now happening to Robinson. Only difference being that it seems Robinson can adjust his sights/comments to suit the constraints - but that doesn't lead to us having a high quality first eleven or a squad more able to cope with injuries and absences.

  But Slade is the one who decided to fight over Foley and Crofts as central midfielders. And we chased Louis Thompson, a Norwich reserve, until seemingly the 11th hour. If we're going to call for managers to have control over transfers (and I've stated many times I'd rather we had a Director of Football for continuity), then they have to have a broad scope of transfer targets. That, to me, is the exact reason why you don't want to give managers that power, as they have enough work coaching the team.

  Not sure Jimmy Seed would have agreed with you!
  
  But when managers come and go as frequently as they do now at Charlton, I can see your point.
  But most managers want at least some say in tranfers (third party ownership not withstanding of course!)

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  SDAddick

  January 2017

  JamesSeed said:

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  SDAddick said:

  Davo55 said:

  Far too many "ok" players; nowhere near enough quality to compete at the top end of this league.
  
  Most worrying is that Robinson's comments about strengthening the team have gone from feisty to wimpy in a matter of weeks. After the visit to Duchatelet and the apparent decision not to invest the Lookman windfall into the team, Robinson seems prepared to settle for much less than he would have hoped or expected.

  I do still feel like we have slightly too high expectations for League One. This isn't a brilliant league. And yes, I know we're in mid-table, but Holmes, Magennis, Pearce, Bauer, Rudd, Texeira, JFC, Watt, Solly are all top players at this level. Same might be said of in form Nathan Byrne, Nicky Ajose, and maybe even Andrew Crofts. The issue is we've never had all of those players (or the departed Lookman and Fox) on the pitch at once.
  
  I agree with you Davo that we need some more quality, particularly in the attacking third. But I don't think we're that far away. I've made the same point over on the match preview thread that I think one of our biggest problems is that January just isn't meant to build a squad, it's meant to tweak squads. And here we are, once again, needing to rebuild a squad. And short of paying 1m for the likes of Dempsey or Reeves, we just may not be able to get players in with the quality we need.
  
  It's a great lesson, once again, to build better squads in the summer. I think Slade has to carry the can for some of that, given how poor and immobile our team was.
  
  Lastly, I'd have Naby Sarr back. I think he's very raw but there is a fair amount to work with there. But I don't know that calling him back now (depending on how long Bauer is out) would make a lot of sense. According to Wikipedia, he's played 17 times for Red Star this season, anyone have any idea how he's done?

  Agree about the lesson not being learned but not so sure it was down to Slade. With RD holding the purse strings tightly and Km doing her usual negotiating "masterclass" I suspect it was more about his targets/wish list not being delivered.
  
  Something that I'm sure is now happening to Robinson. Only difference being that it seems Robinson can adjust his sights/comments to suit the constraints - but that doesn't lead to us having a high quality first eleven or a squad more able to cope with injuries and absences.

  But Slade is the one who decided to fight over Foley and Crofts as central midfielders. And we chased Louis Thompson, a Norwich reserve, until seemingly the 11th hour. If we're going to call for managers to have control over transfers (and I've stated many times I'd rather we had a Director of Football for continuity), then they have to have a broad scope of transfer targets. That, to me, is the exact reason why you don't want to give managers that power, as they have enough work coaching the team.

  Not sure Jimmy Seed would have agreed with you!
  
  But when managers come and go as frequently as they do now at Charlton, I can see your point.
  But most managers want at least some say in tranfers (third party ownership not withstanding of course!)

  There are a lot of great managers from the past who wouldn't agree with me, but I'd argue that the game has just changed so much. Gone are the days when Brian Clough can turn up at Dave McKay's house and not leave until he signs. With the amount of money spent, and as you said with the high turnover in managers, you need to make sure you're signing a player who will succeed.

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