@KillersBeard hit the nail on the head on Charlton Live last night when he pointed out that we are not like the rest of the League one clubs bar Coventry and Blackpool in terms of the state our club is in under the Douchbag. We are thin on the ground squad wise and shouldn't be compared to the clubs around us who put out stronger sides at the weekend. RD wants promotion to get more of his money back so who knows what discussion was had with Bowyer pre match. Maybe Bowyer is on a big Rolly bonus (because we know he loves a bonus) to get us up, hows that for a conspiracy theory .
Bowyer's comments to Louis didn't do himself any favours immediately after the game but he was a bit more contrite in a subsequent interview. Those that have the time and inclination. have a listen to the podcast check it out and you might have a different take on things. I was there on Saturday, I care, I want us to win every game, I was disappointed. However I also don't want see to avoidable risks taken which would hinder our chances, however slight that may be, of promotion particularly if that means the old scrote having a more willing buyer for a Championship club.
So the moral of the story is to not bother going to any of the rounds of any cup competition we play in, next season, or any season, until it starts to get serious?
I didn't have a problem with the first 11 on Saturday, it was the fielding of only 5 subs and 4 of them being kids with next to no experience and a gk which took the piss. Pretty much told everyone, if we struggle with this 11 then we will just accept defeat. At least have 7 subs with 2-3 first team players on it, could have chucked a couple on with 15-20 mins to go if we were losing by the odd goal.
So the moral of the story is to not bother going to any of the rounds of any cup competition we play in, next season, or any season, until it starts to get serious?
So the moral of the story is to not bother going to any of the rounds of any cup competition we play in, next season, or any season, until it starts to get serious?
I don't think what happened on Saturday sets a precedent for any other season. I normally love a cup run, despite the fact that the FA Cup has been ruined. Our club needs to be sold urgently though - being in the third or fourth round of the cup isn't going to persuade anyone to buy us, but being in contention for promotion just might, and nothing should jeopardise that. I am genuinely surprised that people feel differently.
Next season, I pray that Roland's gone and that our new owner has invested in the squad sufficiently to ensure that, even if we field a weakened side like everyone else does, it's still a competitive side.
So the moral of the story is to not bother going to any of the rounds of any cup competition we play in, next season, or any season, until it starts to get serious?
I don't think what happened on Saturday sets a precedent for any other season. I normally love a cup run, despite the fact that the FA Cup has been ruined. Our club needs to be sold urgently though - being in the third or fourth round of the cup isn't going to persuade anyone to buy us, but being in contention for promotion just might, and nothing should jeopardise that. I am genuinely surprised that people feel differently.
Next season, I pray that Roland's gone and that our new owner has invested in the squad sufficiently to ensure that, even if we field a weakened side like everyone else does, it's still a competitive side.
Admin: Could somebody take a look at MrLargo's account as I think it's been hacked. His last few posts on here have been very sensible and made no reference to Trains, South Eastern, shitting on platforms, locking South Eastern staff in dark rooms or American women.
If we do go up to Championships for next season, then i dont think we should play any players that are any good for the whole season, just in case they get injured and wont be able to play for the following season when we are back in L1.
If we do go up to Championships for next season, then i dont think we should play any players that are any good for the whole season, just in case they get injured and wont be able to play for the following season when we are back in L1.
We’ve tried that approach a few times in the past.
I was in the camp should of played a stronger team but half expected it and choose not to go on the back of that. I have now just read Bowyers reasons and sort of changed my mind , although dont really make it right and shows the Roland affect i do understand.
If we had got past Wimbledon last year in the 2nd round we would then have drawn Spurs at Wembley in round 3. At a time when the club is penny pinching in ridiculous ways which ultimately make no difference at all - which is hard to swallow when lazy Daisy wasted untold amounts of money on ridiculous contracts for useless players, sums of money which do/did make a difference - why would a professional football club not want to try and fulfil its sole purpose which is to win football matches, and in the process of progressing in the fa cup win sums of money which will make the club financially healthier and therefore more likely to be successful - snowball effect.
To argue that it is better to be out of the FA Cup as long term that will benefit the club is accepting/agreeing with the whole Roland philosophy - ie that winning games of football is irrelevant. And if it is argued that our squad is too thin to cope with playing games of football and we shouldn't bother with cups then whose fault is that ? Its obviously Rolands as he has left us in this situation by selling anyone he can without any consideration as to how the team is then weakened or as to how that player will then be replaced.
And if we're saying we need to get out of this divison - well we should never have got relegated into it in the first place - it was Rolands meddling and interference that caused an unnecessay relegation from the Championship to occur .
However you dress it up - everything comes back to how the owner is slowly killing the club, and to answer the OP - no, we are not over reacting - we should be absolutely furious.
the draw will also play a big part in this if huddersfield at home comes out nobody will care if spurs/arsenal/chelsea away comes out then people will be rightfully fuming, supporting charlton in recent years hasnt given us much need to cheer so little games like this can raise the fanbase.
I think I understand the bigger picture. The question I have to pose is do you?
Is there an over reaction to the team selection against Doncaster? I suggest it depends on your perspective as to what is "the bigger picture".
There are too many if, buts and maybe's about the rationalisation of the Bowyer decision. What would have happened if Mr Bowyer had selected a full strength side or what impact such selection will have had upon future results is pure conjecture.
The facts are; a) the senior squad is too small* b) the squad has suffered continuing significant injuries c) senior squad players in carrying the consequent increased workload are subject to excess fatigue & injury d) the players had played two "heavy fixtures" in the preceding week e) there were no League 1 points on offer
Thus Mr Bowyer chose to select a severely weakened team not because certain players we're actually injured but because he feared further injury. He is an experienced professional far closer to the individual health of his senior players than anyone else.
A random web blog apart the club indicated the need to rest SEVERAL players but such warnings have been made a hundred times before.
Accepting the mitigating circumstances Mr Bowyer can also point to such practice now being regular if not common place across the industry. How many clubs have played/ will play "weakened" sides in either the Carabao or FA Cup?
However 9 changes to the starting 11 represents an 82% change in personnel. It is WHOLESALE change. I fully understand the approach from a clubhouse perspective but this is bigger than the clubhouse.
It was a narrow judgement. It was an error sending entirely the wrong message - at multiple levels. It was a step too far.
We have all faced/ face challenges in our daily professional lives. The bottom line is you come to work to deliver to your job. It is what what you or I were/ are paid to do.
In an industry built around succeeding in the field of sporting excellence the job of a professional football clubhouse is to come to compete each and every day.
Mr Bowyer chose not to do so. His post match comments compounded the error.
The club is privileged by being a participant in 3 of the top 4 industry's premier competitions. At the lower levels of the pyramid any aspirational senior club can spend years in fighting to secure access to even the preliminary rounds of the FA Cup.
Mr Bowyer chose to abuse the privilege. If you cannot be fussed you bring yourself, your clubhouse, your club and the competition into disrepute. Each is diminished by your action.
As an aside what is your argument when in training this week a player turns round and asks "Is it OK if I am not fussed today gaffer?
No matter any precedent, paying participants have a right to expect the club to be properly represented at all times. It was not.
Though the script for Saturday has been a long time in the writing whether there has been a chapter quite so clear in disrespecting paying customers in our history is debatable. The club disrespected 3000 paying fans on Saturday.
In truth it reflects the reality of where we are as a club today. If we had a Chairman, if we had a CEO, if we had a Board of Directors then there would be questions for Mr Bowyer to answer. There is no one there.
Any pretence on Saturday the club represented a competitive senior professional football club, as per the multiple match days with no or minimal executive participation, is exposed.
Mr Bowyer, I suggest, has now made it abundantly clear based on the resources provided under a reduced budget he can only ever offer a competitive side in one competition.
In effect he has designated all senior cup games as U23 or Development Squad fixtures. I am reminded of my role as a one time cricket club fixture Secretary making sure every member gets a game.
*Just because a player has a professional contract does not mean he is able to effectively contribute to the senior squad.
I find the acceptance of the reduction in aspiration and expectation troubling. Just how far do you want to slide?
The message to the industry is we chose to no longer compete in a competition where over 730 clubs in the football pyramid elected and many fought to participate. It is a competition where the grass roots of the game gets to rub shoulders with the elite. We chose to piss on the grass roots of the game.
No doubt prospective signings will bear the reduced ambition and our reduced circumstances in mind.
No doubt prospective paying customers will bear in mind the reduced attraction before opening their wallets. Just maybe they will find a game to watch where both sides can be "fussed".
It was a mistake. It is done. We move on. We can but hope everybody learns from the experience.
So the moral of the story is to not bother going to any of the rounds of any cup competition we play in, next season, or any season, until it starts to get serious?
I don't think what happened on Saturday sets a precedent for any other season. I normally love a cup run, despite the fact that the FA Cup has been ruined. Our club needs to be sold urgently though - being in the third or fourth round of the cup isn't going to persuade anyone to buy us, but being in contention for promotion just might, and nothing should jeopardise that. I am genuinely surprised that people feel differently.
Next season, I pray that Roland's gone and that our new owner has invested in the squad sufficiently to ensure that, even if we field a weakened side like everyone else does, it's still a competitive side.
Admin: Could somebody take a look at MrLargo's account as I think it's been hacked. His last few posts on here have been very sensible and made no reference to Trains, South Eastern, shitting on platforms, locking South Eastern staff in dark rooms or American women.
Worrying times.
#wewantlargoback
Don't worry Mike, it's just because it was the weekend and I was still in a good mood when I get to work because this morning's train was only 8 minutes late and merely uncomfortably overcrowded rather than dangerously so. The anger will be back sooner rather than later.
Why did Bowyer bother with a reasonably strong side in the replay against Mansfield? Knowing that we were playing Doncaster next up and he would probably field a team to lose in that one.
I was trying to remember what me and Roo did on Saturday afternoon in the traditional ‘how was your weekend’ chats with work colleagues.
There was a large blank for Saturday afternoon, All I had was the knowledge hadn’t gone Christmas shopping, bought the Christmas tree or cleaned up the dog shit from the garden.
In hindsight all of these tasked would have been a better and more enjoyable use of my time.
Why did Bowyer bother with a reasonably strong side in the replay against Mansfield? Knowing that we were playing Doncaster next up and he would probably field a team to lose in that one.
Wasnt Taylor played because he'd have been out of action for three weeks (between the Walsall and Burton games) and so Bowyer didnt want him losing any sharpness?
i.e. Bauer played that game because it was his first back from injury whilst the only other real difference was Reeves played on Saturday whilst Fosu played against Mansfield so in reality the team that faced Doncaster wasnt much weaker than the replay
Why did Bowyer bother with a reasonably strong side in the replay against Mansfield? Knowing that we were playing Doncaster next up and he would probably field a team to lose in that one.
Wasnt Taylor played because he'd have been out of action for three weeks (between the Walsall and Burton games) and so Bowyer didnt want him losing any sharpness?
Yep, agreed. But I thought Mansfield was strong even if you exclude Taylor?
Why did Bowyer bother with a reasonably strong side in the replay against Mansfield? Knowing that we were playing Doncaster next up and he would probably field a team to lose in that one.
Wasnt Taylor played because he'd have been out of action for three weeks (between the Walsall and Burton games) and so Bowyer didnt want him losing any sharpness?
He played in the international break. Indeed with the air miles he flew, he would have been the most physically tired of the squad.
I'm reminded of the old joke where a man is being interviewed for a job. It's all going swimmingly and the interview decides to wrap things up with one last question. "What do you think is your biggest weakness?" he asks.
The man replies "honesty."
The interviewer is a bit puzzled, "I don't think honesty is a weakness."
The man replies "I don't give a f@ck what you think"
We all know why Bowyer picked the team he did, it's not rocket science. Better management of expectation and a less blunt post match interview would have avoided a lot of this aggro.
Comments
Bowyer's comments to Louis didn't do himself any favours immediately after the game but he was a bit more contrite in a subsequent interview. Those that have the time and inclination. have a listen to the podcast check it out and you might have a different take on things. I was there on Saturday, I care, I want us to win every game, I was disappointed. However I also don't want see to avoidable risks taken which would hinder our chances, however slight that may be, of promotion particularly if that means the old scrote having a more willing buyer for a Championship club.
Next season, I pray that Roland's gone and that our new owner has invested in the squad sufficiently to ensure that, even if we field a weakened side like everyone else does, it's still a competitive side.
1) Likes where posts are criticising Bowyer/decision ........ lots.
2) Likes where posts are backing Bowyer/decision........ not a lot.
Worrying times.
#wewantlargoback
To argue that it is better to be out of the FA Cup as long term that will benefit the club is accepting/agreeing with the whole Roland philosophy - ie that winning games of football is irrelevant. And if it is argued that our squad is too thin to cope with playing games of football and we shouldn't bother with cups then whose fault is that ? Its obviously Rolands as he has left us in this situation by selling anyone he can without any consideration as to how the team is then weakened or as to how that player will then be replaced.
And if we're saying we need to get out of this divison - well we should never have got relegated into it in the first place - it was Rolands meddling and interference that caused an unnecessay relegation from the Championship to occur .
However you dress it up - everything comes back to how the owner is slowly killing the club, and to answer the OP - no, we are not over reacting - we should be absolutely furious.
Is there an over reaction to the team selection against Doncaster? I suggest it depends on your perspective as to what is "the bigger picture".
There are too many if, buts and maybe's about the rationalisation of the Bowyer decision. What would have happened if Mr Bowyer had selected a full strength side or what impact such selection will have had upon future results is pure conjecture.
The facts are;
a) the senior squad is too small*
b) the squad has suffered continuing significant injuries
c) senior squad players in carrying the consequent increased workload are subject to excess fatigue & injury
d) the players had played two "heavy fixtures" in the preceding week
e) there were no League 1 points on offer
Thus Mr Bowyer chose to select a severely weakened team not because certain players we're actually injured but because he feared further injury. He is an experienced professional far closer to the individual health of his senior players than anyone else.
A random web blog apart the club indicated the need to rest SEVERAL players but such warnings have been made a hundred times before.
Accepting the mitigating circumstances Mr Bowyer can also point to such practice now being regular if not common place across the industry. How many clubs have played/ will play "weakened" sides in either the Carabao or FA Cup?
However 9 changes to the starting 11 represents an 82% change in personnel. It is WHOLESALE change. I fully understand the approach from a clubhouse perspective but this is bigger than the clubhouse.
It was a narrow judgement. It was an error sending entirely the wrong message - at multiple levels. It was a step too far.
We have all faced/ face challenges in our daily professional lives. The bottom line is you come to work to deliver to your job. It is what what you or I were/ are paid to do.
In an industry built around succeeding in the field of sporting excellence the job of a professional football clubhouse is to come to compete each and every day.
Mr Bowyer chose not to do so. His post match comments compounded the error.
The club is privileged by being a participant in 3 of the top 4 industry's premier competitions. At the lower levels of the pyramid any aspirational senior club can spend years in fighting to secure access to even the preliminary rounds of the FA Cup.
Mr Bowyer chose to abuse the privilege. If you cannot be fussed you bring yourself, your clubhouse, your club and the competition into disrepute. Each is diminished by your action.
As an aside what is your argument when in training this week a player turns round and asks "Is it OK if I am not fussed today gaffer?
No matter any precedent, paying participants have a right to expect the club to be properly represented at all times. It was not.
Though the script for Saturday has been a long time in the writing whether there has been a chapter quite so clear in disrespecting paying customers in our history is debatable. The club disrespected 3000 paying fans on Saturday.
In truth it reflects the reality of where we are as a club today. If we had a Chairman, if we had a CEO, if we had a Board of Directors then there would be questions for Mr Bowyer to answer. There is no one there.
Any pretence on Saturday the club represented a competitive senior professional football club, as per the multiple match days with no or minimal executive participation, is exposed.
Mr Bowyer, I suggest, has now made it abundantly clear based on the resources provided under a reduced budget he can only ever offer a competitive side in one competition.
In effect he has designated all senior cup games as U23 or Development Squad fixtures. I am reminded of my role as a one time cricket club fixture Secretary making sure every member gets a game.
*Just because a player has a professional contract does not mean he is able to effectively contribute to the senior squad.
I find the acceptance of the reduction in aspiration and expectation troubling. Just how far do you want to slide?
The message to the industry is we chose to no longer compete in a competition where over 730 clubs in the football pyramid elected and many fought to participate. It is a competition where the grass roots of the game gets to rub shoulders with the elite. We chose to piss on the grass roots of the game.
No doubt prospective signings will bear the reduced ambition and our reduced circumstances in mind.
No doubt prospective paying customers will bear in mind the reduced attraction before opening their wallets. Just maybe they will find a game to watch where both sides can be "fussed".
It was a mistake. It is done. We move on. We can but hope everybody learns from the experience.
I was trying to remember what me and Roo did on Saturday afternoon in the traditional ‘how was your weekend’ chats with work colleagues.
There was a large blank for Saturday afternoon, All I had was the knowledge hadn’t gone Christmas shopping, bought the Christmas tree or cleaned up the dog shit from the garden.
In hindsight all of these tasked would have been a better and more enjoyable use of my time.
Won’t be going to a cup game again.
Mansfield:
Phillips - Dijksteel - Bauer - Sarr - Stevenson - Pratley - Lapslie - Fosu - Clarke - Taylor - Ajose
Doncaster:
Phillips - Dijksteel - Sarr - Stevenson - Marshall - Lapslie - Clarke - Ajose - Maloney - Hackett-Fairchild - Reeves
Those in bold played just one of the two games.
Imagine that had Pratley been fit he'd have played instead of Maloney
The man replies "honesty."
The interviewer is a bit puzzled, "I don't think honesty is a weakness."
The man replies "I don't give a f@ck what you think"
We all know why Bowyer picked the team he did, it's not rocket science. Better management of expectation and a less blunt post match interview would have avoided a lot of this aggro.