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The rise of the vegans.

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    Saga Lout said:

    The strange thing is that this is such a modern affectation.

    Would we be alive were it not for horses bringing up coal and essential minerals?

    Oxen and horses for travel, ploughing the land to grow our food? (yes, even vegetables).

    Still if we never used animals for our survival, there would be far less bullshit on this thread, I suppose.

    Stevelamb said:

    My medical records over the last three years are completely without foundation then? They are my evidence.......fact.

    Just done a quick Google search and found the following -

    Countries with the highest life expectancy -

    Top seems to be South Korea and Luxembourg - both 82.2 years.

    Demographics of people following a "Vegetarian diet (%) (includes vegan diet)" worldwide -

    South Korea - approx 1.0% (in real numbers that's 500.000 in 51.25m)

    Can't find figures for Luxembourg
    The CIA, and many others would disagree slightly with South Korea, but the general point stands.
    Monaco
    Japan are generally the top 2.
    As put to Steve previously, and he continues to swerve the facts, preferring anecdotal 'evidence'
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
    If vegans are against all use of animals I assume they are against having pets? If not, how is that different to using donkeys down a mine?

    I’ve sent one of my cats up the chimney to retrieve a pigeon that had got stuck once but only cos next door wouldn’t lend me their three year old child. Usually he just sleeps on my bed.
    They must trust you a LOT.
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    We'll probably cop the blame for not eating the baby calfs, lambs quick enough...
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    We'll probably cop the blame for not eating the baby calfs, lambs quick enough...

    Wolves always let you down.
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    edited September 2018

    An article published today in The Guardian advises urgent reduction of the livestock industry. [Link to article below]

    Europe’s animal farming sector has exceeded safe bounds for greenhouse gas emissions, nutrient flows and biodiversity loss, and urgently needs to be scaled back, according to a major report.

    Pressure on livestock farmers is set to intensify this century as global population and income growth raises demand for meat-based products beyond the planet’s capacity to supply it.

    The paper’s co-author, Professor Allan Buckwell, endorses a Greenpeace call for halving meat and dairy production by 2050, and his report’s broadside is squarely aimed at the heart of the EU’s policy establishment.


    https://theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/15/europe-meat-dairy-production-2050-expert-warns

    All makes sense from an agricultural economics and environmental perspective - animal welfare isn't a relevant factor apart from cruelty won't happen because they won't be born.

    Here's another balanced argument for the pros and cons of a vegetarian world.

    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
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    People eating vegan and living for longer is irresponsible! you'll be thanking all us meat eaters for dying off early and not contributing to overpopulation!
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    iainment said:

    We'll probably cop the blame for not eating the baby calfs, lambs quick enough...

    Wolves always let you down.
    Are you Richard Murray?
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    Guardian article: Seven ways to approach going vegan

    If you’re thinking of joining the 3.5m British people who eat only plants, take things slowly at first, brace yourself for judgment and start reading food labels properly

    https://theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/16/seven-ways-to-approach-veganism

    Nobody asked or insinuated that they may consider it?!
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    So it’s vegans fault, not the fact that the place looks like it should be condemned?

    Pity though as you can’t beat a bit of pie and mash.
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    Goddard's is/was the terrible end of P&M.

    The Greenwich shop is awful.
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    Haven’t been in the deptford one but used to go in the Greenwich shop.
    Just adding to the totally balanced view of links in this thread.
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    So the footfall outside changes.
    Make vegetarian and vegan pies then.
    Stay in business.
    Simple.
    I'd go for that as long as it's not the lazy choice-cheese and onion pies.
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    Goddard's is/was the terrible end of P&M.

    The Greenwich shop is awful.

    My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.

    Hate the stuff!
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    bobmunro said:

    Goddard's is/was the terrible end of P&M.

    The Greenwich shop is awful.

    My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.

    Hate the stuff!
    Can't beat Manzes and I also have regular deliveries due to not being able to get to a shop regularly enough.

    Arments is also another very good P&M shop. Not sure if they deliver or not.
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    edited September 2018
    Great article here on eating what is best for your personal health.

    Haters will say it's wrong... Obviously.

    https://wellnessforce.com/resource/the-science-of-why-vegans-get-sick/
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    bobmunro said:

    Goddard's is/was the terrible end of P&M.

    The Greenwich shop is awful.

    My wife and sons would agree - I have to have Manze pies and liquor delivered on a regular basis and my youngest was actually tucking into double pie and mash last night.

    Hate the stuff!
    Can't beat Manzes and I also have regular deliveries due to not being able to get to a shop regularly enough.

    Arments is also another very good P&M shop. Not sure if they deliver or not.
    Be assured that I love a good pie (as my waist line testifies) but Manzes pies are too soggy and the mincemeat filling is definitely not to my taste. My wife indoctrinated our two before I had a chance to stop here and whenever we get a delivery up here in deepest darkest Cheshire the boys somehow have a habit of coming around for dinner far more often. Maybe that's my wife's strategy as I see them both every day Mon-Fri.
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    Its a well known fact that you can't have pie & mash unless you tell every single person you know.

    Most overrated food on earth.

    and i know the exact type of cnuts that go usually with a flat cap on whilst they eat it, tbh i dont eat it too often really have to be in the mood for it.
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    Pie n mash is comfort food - hard to get too critical of it. Goddards is fine by me.
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    If Michaela Strachan asks me nicely. I’ll give it some thought.
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