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Monitoring carer's visiting times

We've just started with paid for carers for the mother in law. It's quite clear that they log in and out on their time sheets adding 10 mins on either/both ends.
How do people prevent this ?
My thoughts are requesting them to phone me from the ma in laws landline or installing a camera, but I'm not tech savvy.
Anyone resolved this issue ?

Comments

  • Are they an agency working for Greenwich Council, or carers you have arranged yourself?

    if you have arranged it yourself, my first thought is that you should talk to the management straight away.
  • If it is privately funded, get them to ring or txt you from either the home phone with Caller ID or buy a cheap mobile which they need to use.
    If a mobile, it should be kept at the home, and if removed you will get an idea of something going on.
    You'll see by both the time on the call logs on the origin number and receiving number.
  • I'm sure there must be plenty of old "clocking in" machines lying around all the old disused factories........... :smiley:
  • You can get door contact sensors that can be connected to wifi so you get a log of whenever someone enters or leaves the property.

    But honestly it should not have to come to that.

    Call up the manager and tell them you know what they are doing and under no uncertain terms should they be submitting false timesheets and you will not be paying for time not worked.

    Sadly, Googling 'carer timesheet fiddling' shows this is a depressingly common problem. Nipping it in the bud would be the best course of action.
  • edited February 12

    Are they an agency working for Greenwich Council, or carers you have arranged yourself?

    if you have arranged it yourself, my first thought is that you should talk to the management straight away.

    Agency working for Greenwich Council.

    Thanks all. You've confirmed my views.
  • We had agency carers for my mum supplied by Greenwich Council (but we paid for them!). First day when we met them butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. By the end of the second week we fucked them out. Blatant lying on time sheets, they were giving mum about 20 minutes but signing on and getting paid for one hour. Worse still, when we realised they were lying on their time sheets we waited upstairs one morning when they arrived without them knowing. The way they spoke to mum was disgraceful, we had to bite our lips to get the full picture. Arrived at 9.20 and left at 9.40. Signed in as 9.00 to 10.00. Went mental at the Council so they sent us a new carer. Within a couple of weeks exactly the same antics started again so we fucked them out and looked after mum ourselves. She was a good Charlton fan god rest her!
  • The Agency I used, the carers had to sign in by phoning the office from the home phone of the person being cared for. When they had finished they had to sign out by phoning again. It was a free phone number so no charge to me, using an automated system recognising their personal codes. It worked well and I was only ever charged for the time the carers were in the house. It was calculated to the exact minute. A system more agencies should adopt as it also keeps a check on how long it takes the carers to get from one client to the next. Must say the carers were not to happy with the system. They felt like big brother was watching them.
  • muzzy said:

    The Agency I used, the carers had to sign in by phoning the office from the home phone of the person being cared for. When they had finished they had to sign out by phoning again. It was a free phone number so no charge to me, using an automated system recognising their personal codes. It worked well and I was only ever charged for the time the carers were in the house. It was calculated to the exact minute. A system more agencies should adopt as it also keeps a check on how long it takes the carers to get from one client to the next. Must say the carers were not to happy with the system. They felt like big brother was watching them.

    I feel sad for the carers who must ultimately feel like there's no trust even though they deeply care for their clients because of the selfishness of the evil shits who abuse the system and conning desperate people out of their hard earned money.
  • Are they an agency working for Greenwich Council, or carers you have arranged yourself?

    if you have arranged it yourself, my first thought is that you should talk to the management straight away.

    Agency working for Greenwich Council.

    Thanks all. You've confirmed my views.
    Right, so our experience is worth knowing of, although tactically how you use it, might be worth thinking about.

    We had about 6 weeks of care we were suppose to pay for, before our Mum passed away in QEH. The service was erratic, sometimes they turned up at the wrong time, too often not at all. But we had no complaints about the carers themselves. My brother and sister tried to log the failures to turn up etc. However, and I will check this, I don't think we saw any time sheets.

    It took another six weeks or so before we heard anything from Greenwich Council. Eventually, without any breakdown/back up info we were sent a bill for about £750.I sent a polite email back pointing out that we had numerous notes of failures to turn up correctly, and could they please send the breakdown so we can check the claimed amount with actual. Reasonable, no? Normal, you'd think?

    The request was acknowledged by the manager concerned, she said she would need to get the info from another dept. That was end October. Since then we have heard nothing. Nic, nada, nothing.

    Let me know if there's anything else we could share that would help you.

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  • Thanks all.
  • We used wireless motion sensors, with the added benefit of seeing if there was movement in the house at other times, good for checking falls, and other inactivity.
  • Hmm, the daughters (my wife & her sisters) are reluctant to tackle the issue,being concerned that the carers would treat their mum less well and also that as they can all access the house, they are concerned as to anything happening.
    One of them will contact the agency, but I'm not allowed to. (Can't think why :smile: ).
  • edited February 13
    muzzy said:

    The Agency I used, the carers had to sign in by phoning the office from the home phone of the person being cared for. When they had finished they had to sign out by phoning again. It was a free phone number so no charge to me, using an automated system recognising their personal codes. It worked well and I was only ever charged for the time the carers were in the house. It was calculated to the exact minute. A system more agencies should adopt as it also keeps a check on how long it takes the carers to get from one client to the next. Must say the carers were not to happy with the system. They felt like big brother was watching them.

    I can give another view of this, although am pretty sure my mum would not be signing for extra time.

    My mum briefly did it a few months leading up to Christmas, not sure who through. But whenever she would go to a job she would be there for x time, however alot of the time petrol to the job sometimes would not be worthwhile as they get paid pittance. maybe this is why they are doing this? not that it makes it right but would imagine its how its starts as they only get paid for whilst they are on job and not any costs to and from.

    My mum used to have an old lady she cared for 90+ and she would buy her something from Marks or Costa, often this would end up costing her more than the job itself but she enjoyed doing it. In the end she jacked it in as they were being unreasonable with hours offered, i actually have a friend who has also recently got into it but again she said its very poor pay which is shocking considering what they have to deal with.

    PS- I am not saying this is right in anyway, but just goes to show how they should be managed better and how poor they get paid.
  • edited February 13
    BDL said:

    Social Care is f*cked.

    Until the country accepts that it has to be funded properly, through increased taxes, and staff are paid a professional wage for caring we haven't got a chance.

    Staff working in Social Care are all stressed out to the max, tasked with providing a service with little or no resources. Private Care agencies will pay as little as possible but charge as much as they can, care staff rotas will be such that they don't give any travel time so carers have to cut corners to meet their targets, so that they can get paid.

    This is a problem that has been brewing for years, from 1993 and the introduction of the Community Care Act, to the muddle fuddled Care Act 2014. Succesive governments of all colours have buried their heads in the sands. Crisis point has come and gone, it will only get worse.

    As I said Social Care is F*cked!

    This. a member of my family works/worked for a care home company that runs many private homes, during her probation she could not believe how uncared for the residents are, everything is parred to the bone, documents falsified, the more dependent residents left in their own mess, bullied etc etc, she did well in her first months appraisal, then she pointed all the above out to her line manager that many of the working practices fell well short of what was acceptable, she was then told to keep quiet about it all, she didn't, so she was then told that her probation was unsuccessful and was let go.
    Oh yes, hidden cameras, they are told to look for hidden cameras that the residents family put in rooms as a monitoring system, and when they find them, dispose of them.
    Social care in our country is a total shit cart for the sake of private profit.
  • We are with a good private agency in Greenwich for my mum. It is hit and miss until you get the right carers. One could not make a cup of tea and had to be shown and another did not know what porridge is - they are paid to get my mum up and make breakfast! You just have to phone and reject bad ones but once it’s up and running, it’s ok. Some are young and have no idea about life let alone looking after someone.
  • We are with a good private agency in Greenwich for my mum. It is hit and miss until you get the right carers. One could not make a cup of tea and had to be shown and another did not know what porridge is - they are paid to get my mum up and make breakfast! You just have to phone and reject bad ones but once it’s up and running, it’s ok. Some are young and have no idea about life let alone looking after someone.

    But it really shouldn't be hit and miss should it?

    It will never happen as our politicians cannot see beyond a five year term but we really need someone to step forward and tell the public the truth - if you want stuff it costs, are you prepared to pay for it?
  • Had loads of problems with Bexley council with my dad's carers. Everything was pared to the bone. Couldn't easily phone or email the council as they never responded. I challenged loads of what we were billed but was regularly told the bill was in 15 minute slots. Bexley only had one agency at a time, apparently. I didn't feel they made a great deal of effort to manage things and I got the feeling it was all crisis management.

    I felt sorry for most of the carers as my Dad could be quite difficult and I know people who do it and have to be on the road 12-14 hours a day just to get it all done, but despite that he was regularly failed by them. The worst was when he died they called round and wanted to take away the time sheets that morning.

    Whole system is rotten and I think designed so that anyone with enough cash goes private where they've got more control. Don't get old or infirm without money seems to be the message.
  • we have stated our own Care group in this village. All helpers have to be DBS vetted and go through a Safe Guarding training course.
    We will sit with the elderly, shop for them, garden, dog walk, and transport to health care/ hospitals etc.
    The first money for the vetting came via the church and street Pastors--- nearly went off on my training when they started going on about "protecting of sex offenders" !!! told em to fuck off im not here for that shit.
    We believe that Dover Council will be puting money in (taking a very keen interest) as if we are taking people to and from hospitals/GPs and doing shopping etc it will save them money.

    Strangely after one year of operation we have more volunteers than clients.

    As for paying for care well in Kent your poll tax is going up higher than inflation to pay for care costs( so they say)

    said before they can tax you VAT you etc etc they cant tax your time--- fuck big governments of all colours--- its down to us and having a bit of humanity.


    PS Tom from Eltham please take note.
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  • BDL said:

    We are with a good private agency in Greenwich for my mum. It is hit and miss until you get the right carers. One could not make a cup of tea and had to be shown and another did not know what porridge is - they are paid to get my mum up and make breakfast! You just have to phone and reject bad ones but once it’s up and running, it’s ok. Some are young and have no idea about life let alone looking after someone.

    But it really shouldn't be hit and miss should it?

    It will never happen as our politicians cannot see beyond a five year term but we really need someone to step forward and tell the public the truth - if you want stuff it costs, are you prepared to pay for it?
    Your right, It should not be like that. My mum is still “with it” and can phone that agency to complain when needs be. My concern is those who cannot complain - it’s those people who are more likely to be taken advantage of. I don’t know the answer. Pay is an obvious issue but it could also be a London and the South East issue as the carers here in South Wales are much better from first hand experience.
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