New Charlton sexual abuse claim in Sunday Mirror (11/12/16)

Airman Brown

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/football-abuse-victim-reveals-how-9433202

There are some very serious errors in this story. No Paul Collins ever played for Charlton's first team in a competitive match. The kit in the picture is 1977-80 (Charlton dropped Bukta after 79/80), although youth players may have worn old kit. If Collins joined Charlton in 1984 as reported then Heath was already dead - alternatively if he joined Charlton from Millwall when Heath did he would have been about 11 at the time if he is now 47.

John Barnes was at Watford in 1985, but Charlton didn't play them then. Collins would have been 16 in 1985.

Charlton played Watford (and Barnes) in the FA Cup in January 1984. Even if Collins' birthday is in late December/early January he would have been just 15 at the time. Paul Curtis played at right-back in that game. When the teams next met in 1986/87, Steve Gritt and John Humphrey were at right-back.

East_Stand_Loopy

Write to them, Airman.

Make them print an apology/retraction...

Lincsaddick

not necessarily saying that it's true in this case .. BUT .. with every sex scandal/abuse panic, there will be band wagon jumpers either looking for publicity to boost their boring lives and / or self esteem, or more likely a nice cash payment in the form of compensation, damages, or a nice payout from the sensation hungry 'media'

Airman Brown

Indeed. Just because some things in the story are not true doesn't mean all of it is made up, but it wouldn't have been difficult for the Mirror to have checked the first-team debut claim or even to have looked for pictures from such a match. The identifiable errors are so gross that they don't inspire confidence in the rest of it. A national newspaper ought to be doing better than this on such an appalling subject.

JiMMy 85

Also worth noting that the questionable information is in the story, but not the quotes. It's quite possible the author just messed it up.

1StevieG

I am amazed this shitrag paper is still going with top journalism like this.

Badger

Surely Checking facts first would have given a clearer idea of what to print.

Valiantphil

He is described as "Ex-Charlton Athletic Ace" - and nobody has ever heard of him.

Even Thuram has a Wiki page !

waldo

I read this piece and checked CC's excellent book as I had never heard of this so called player and will be emailing the reporter this evening, as should we all I .beleive

markmc68

I went to school with Paul. He was a fantastic schoolboy player. I remember him at millwall then switching to charlton. By that time we had all left school and didn't keep in contact. I heard in later life that he'd got into trouble with drugs and crime but it was hardly surprising due to the environment where we were raised as kids. I would say that of any of the boys that played football in my area Paul was destined to make it. He was streets ahead.

mogodon

If this was fact checked then it wasn't done very well. More likely the editor just jumped on it as it was a story that was trending and he got what he wanted for a few hundred pounds. I really hope it's not made up as that kind of thing just makes the genuine victims less likely to come forward and also means they are less likely to be believed.

The picture of him in a Charlton shirt is clearly not from an official photo, so unlikely to have been something he had as a player at the time. It looks as if the person next to him is a girl anyway and that it was taken in a park!

Airman Brown

markmc68 said:

I went to school with Paul. He was a fantastic schoolboy player. I remember him at millwall then switching to charlton. By that time we had all left school and didn't keep in contact. I heard in later life that he'd got into trouble with drugs and crime but it was hardly surprising due to the environment where we were raised as kids. I would say that of any of the boys that played football in my area Paul was destined to make it. He was streets ahead.

That's helpful information. Would he be 47 though?

markmc68

He's 48.

markmc68

We had paul Collins and Darren Morgan former millwall and Bradford in our school team. Happy days !!!

Airman Brown

markmc68 said:

He's 48.

Thanks.

danny777

The article says he played against John Barnes "for a Charlton team", not necessarily the first team. Is it possible that we played Watford in, say, a reserve match, when Barnes was perhaps returning from an injury?

MountsfieldPark

John Barnes wasn't a "future England star" in 1985, either; his debut for the full England team was in 1983 and the famous goal against Brazil was in 1984.

This story is also in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4021952/Former-Charlton-youth-star-says-abuse-hands-alleged-paedophile-coach-led-contemplating-suicide.html

It says "Mr Johnson said he was sexually abused by Heath, who was chief-scout at the club [Chelsea], while a youth player in the 1970s." which disagrees with the Mirror's statement: "Paul’s nightmare began as a schoolboy in 1981 playing for London youth team Riverside, run by Heath." Heath was sacked by Chelsea in 1979 and would have been at Millwall in 1981, I assume. The Mail says he's 47 now, btw.

I suppose that, even if he is the source of factual discrepancies, the guy is entitled to be a bit hazy about the dates and possibly even where some of the events happened.

Airman Brown

MountsfieldPark said:

John Barnes wasn't a "future England star" in 1985, either; his debut for the full England team was in 1983 and the famous goal against Brazil was in 1984.

This story is also in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4021952/Former-Charlton-youth-star-says-abuse-hands-alleged-paedophile-coach-led-contemplating-suicide.html

It says "Mr Johnson said he was sexually abused by Heath, who was chief-scout at the club [Chelsea], while a youth player in the 1970s." which disagrees with the Mirror's statement: "Paul’s nightmare began as a schoolboy in 1981 playing for London youth team Riverside, run by Heath." Heath was sacked by Chelsea in 1979 and would have been at Millwall in 1981, I assume. The Mail says he's 47 now, btw.

I suppose that, even if he is the source of factual discrepancies, the guy is entitled to be a bit hazy about the dates and possibly even where some of the events happened.

Johnson is a different person.

Airman Brown

danny777 said:

The article says he played against John Barnes "for a Charlton team", not necessarily the first team. Is it possible that we played Watford in, say, a reserve match, when Barnes was perhaps returning from an injury?

The article has now been edited then, because the print version says it was his "first team debut", as did the web story originally. Barnes is six years older than Collins, so I think we are probably talking about a reserve match rather than youth football, as you suggest. We would have played Watford at reserve level in 1985, but he'd have been 15/16.

hudson-son-son

Lincsaddick said:

not necessarily saying that it's true in this case .. BUT .. with every sex scandal/abuse panic, there will be band wagon jumpers either looking for publicity to boost their boring lives and / or self esteem, or more likely a nice cash payment in the form of compensation, damages, or a nice payout from the sensation hungry 'media'

That's also the attitude that stops people coming forward in the first place...

i_b_b_o_r_g

All par for the course as far as the Mirror is concerned imo

Addickted

Airman Brown said:

danny777 said:

The article says he played against John Barnes "for a Charlton team", not necessarily the first team. Is it possible that we played Watford in, say, a reserve match, when Barnes was perhaps returning from an injury?

The article has now been edited then, because the print version says it was his "first team debut", as did the web story originally. Barnes is six years older than Collins, so I think we are probably talking about a reserve match rather than youth football, as you suggest. We would have played Watford at reserve level in 1985, but he'd have been 15/16.

Edited at 7pm last night.

I now expect to see it edited to Cheltenham at 7pm tonight.