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Dallas police shootings

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    Something about the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up to me, randomly woke up to it happening and saw one of the earlier videos and it certainly didn't sound like sniper fire, it was relentless shots from what sounded like at least 4-5 at least semi-automatic guns. I'm not one for conspiracy theories or set ups but something seems off.

    Agreed. The video on Twitter where the bloke runs up and does the policeman point blank with multiple shots, definitely isn't using a sniper.

    Wouldn't shock me if this was an inside job to take the heat off the old bill tbh
    Hang on a tick... the master plan to take the heat off the police is to kill policemen? And of all places, when surrounded by angry minority protesters, with policemen under pressure? Because there is absolutely no chance that the police wouldn't react badly to gunfire...

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    Something about the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up to me, randomly woke up to it happening and saw one of the earlier videos and it certainly didn't sound like sniper fire, it was relentless shots from what sounded like at least 4-5 at least semi-automatic guns. I'm not one for conspiracy theories or set ups but something seems off.

    Or it could be that the news was being reported pretty much as it happened and nobody had a clue what was going on in all that madness. Clearly there was at least one gunman on the ground with an assault rifle but there could equally have been others elsewhere.

    Obama had it spot on in his statement. It's too early to call what exactly has happened and they need time to go through it all before commenting further.

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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Do you accept there is a massive problem with racism in the US - it sounds to me like you don't. Presumably you've never looked at US history or the numerous examples of racist killings that don't get properly investigated.
    If you can't accept that black and white people aren't treated equally I assume it's because you don't want to.
    Racism is obviously not an issue to you as you're not affected by it.
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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    It's not black and white. There's a problem with both institutional racism AND Gun/Gang related crime in America.

    There's far more than 2 incidents with police shootings where they've looked at fault, this is why for years now the relationship between the police and the black communities has been strained.
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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    Presumably the pair of you view Trump as a great thinker and don't accept that racism is a massive problem in the States. Obviously not an issue for either of you.
    Even that well known left wing paper the Daily Telegraph has an article today on how racist the US democracy is.
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    se9addick said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?

    Why is it relevant ?
    Why isn't it relevant? It supports the fact that Black lives do in fact matter. ALL lives matter is what they should be championing.

    Regarding taser use on baggy clothes

    “The most effective place for a TASER probe to hit is one probe above the belt and one below the belt with a spread of a foot or more,” Tracy said. Baggy clothing can get in the way of probes making contact with the skin. Denim can stop the probes getting through all together. The probe can also come loose of the wire/skin and the probes can be shot too close together.

    All of these scenarios would leave the intended target unaffected.

    “A lot of times the top dart misses or the bottom dart misses,” Paxton said. "The top probe has a laser sight on it and is fired directly, while the second probe is fired at an angle. Firing it from a distance usually means a better spread of the probes, but the probability of missing is greatly increased by distance.”

    It also is difficult to hit a moving target. If the probes are not shot directly into the subject, the TASER takes time and can be difficult to reload.

    “The TASER X-26 (U.S standard Police issue) is limited to one deployment at a time,” Tracy said. "While the cartridge can be dropped and reloaded, reloading is difficult under stress.”
    But black lives clearly don't matter to all coppers in the states, that's entirely the point.
    And neither do white lives matter to all coppers otherwise no white people would have been killed.
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    edited July 2016

    se9addick said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?

    Why is it relevant ?
    Why isn't it relevant? It supports the fact that Black lives do in fact matter. ALL lives matter is what they should be championing.

    Regarding taser use on baggy clothes

    “The most effective place for a TASER probe to hit is one probe above the belt and one below the belt with a spread of a foot or more,” Tracy said. Baggy clothing can get in the way of probes making contact with the skin. Denim can stop the probes getting through all together. The probe can also come loose of the wire/skin and the probes can be shot too close together.

    All of these scenarios would leave the intended target unaffected.

    “A lot of times the top dart misses or the bottom dart misses,” Paxton said. "The top probe has a laser sight on it and is fired directly, while the second probe is fired at an angle. Firing it from a distance usually means a better spread of the probes, but the probability of missing is greatly increased by distance.”

    It also is difficult to hit a moving target. If the probes are not shot directly into the subject, the TASER takes time and can be difficult to reload.

    “The TASER X-26 (U.S standard Police issue) is limited to one deployment at a time,” Tracy said. "While the cartridge can be dropped and reloaded, reloading is difficult under stress.”
    But black lives clearly don't matter to all coppers in the states, that's entirely the point.
    And neither do white lives matter to all coppers otherwise no white people would have been killed.
    There was a white lad shot, whilst on the floor, with video evidence, whilst all this has been going on. This was also after a routine traffic stop (speeding in this case) and the result of four rounds. Am I saying that the US doesn't have race issues? Not at all. Am I saying that stories that reinforce the race issues get reported more? Yes.

    A lot of perspective is needed - not every shooting is racist, but the result of a police force who are contemplating whether every stop is going to result in a gun being pulled out. A quick search of Youtube shows compilation videos of dash-cam footage where police officers have been murdered on traffic stops. If you deal with that fear multiple times per shift you WILL misread a situation and kill someone one day.

    For those claiming that the particular shooting in question is racist, if you watch the video then the cries of "FUCK. FUCK. I TOLD HIM NOT TO REACH FOR IT." from the police officer underlines that he was distraught. He wasn't congratulating himself on killing a young black man, he was in pieces having just killed another human being.
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    se9addick said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?

    Why is it relevant ?
    Why isn't it relevant? It supports the fact that Black lives do in fact matter. ALL lives matter is what they should be championing.

    Regarding taser use on baggy clothes

    “The most effective place for a TASER probe to hit is one probe above the belt and one below the belt with a spread of a foot or more,” Tracy said. Baggy clothing can get in the way of probes making contact with the skin. Denim can stop the probes getting through all together. The probe can also come loose of the wire/skin and the probes can be shot too close together.

    All of these scenarios would leave the intended target unaffected.

    “A lot of times the top dart misses or the bottom dart misses,” Paxton said. "The top probe has a laser sight on it and is fired directly, while the second probe is fired at an angle. Firing it from a distance usually means a better spread of the probes, but the probability of missing is greatly increased by distance.”

    It also is difficult to hit a moving target. If the probes are not shot directly into the subject, the TASER takes time and can be difficult to reload.

    “The TASER X-26 (U.S standard Police issue) is limited to one deployment at a time,” Tracy said. "While the cartridge can be dropped and reloaded, reloading is difficult under stress.”
    But black lives clearly don't matter to all coppers in the states, that's entirely the point.
    And neither do white lives matter to all coppers otherwise no white people would have been killed.
    there was a really high profile case in america not long ago where a white college athlete essentially got off scot free on a sexual assault and rape charge because it might "hurt his career" further down the line. The reporting of the case used a college grad photo of him, not a police mug shot they usually use
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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    There was a chap from Black lives matter on TV last night who did say it.
    He said if black people have no respect for each other how can they expect others to respect them.
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    edited July 2016

    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    Presumably the pair of you view Trump as a great thinker and don't accept that racism is a massive problem in the States. Obviously not an issue for either of you.
    Even that well known left wing paper the Daily Telegraph has an article today on how racist the US democracy is.
    Presume all you want sunshine, if that's what it takes for you to swallow someone else's opinion you don't like, crack on.
  • Options

    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    image
    I'd say thanks for that meme a 16 year old knocked up in his room, but my opinion stands.
  • Options

    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    Presumably the pair of you view Trump as a great thinker and don't accept that racism is a massive problem in the States. Obviously not an issue for either of you.
    Even that well known left wing paper the Daily Telegraph has an article today on how racist the US democracy is.
    I don't get my opinion from any paper, I wouldn't know which way the Telegraph swings, nor do I care. Same goes for Trump and Clinton tbh. So I think you've presumed wrong there oal
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    A while back (after another mass shooting) there was a claim on here, in all seriousness as far as I could tell, that the shooting wouldn't have happened if the victims had been armed. Well, the pólice here were armed, but they didn't seem to be able to swat away the bullets with their guns. I know it's been round the mulberry Bush interminably on here, but for me, another arguement from the very small CL Gun Lobby evaporates. Guns do not make you safer.
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    A while back (after another mass shooting) there was a claim on here, in all seriousness as far as I could tell, that the shooting wouldn't have happened if the victims had been armed. Well, the pólice here were armed, but they didn't seem to be able to swat away the bullets with their guns. I know it's been round the mulberry Bush interminably on here, but for me, another arguement from the very small CL Gun Lobby evaporates. Guns do not make you safer.

    I think the argument is that enough of the US public would like the choice (rightly or wrongly) to be able to defend themselves from the amount of illegal firearms in circulation over there, it is as simple as that. Anything that is done now, like a ban on the sale of ALL firearms will firstly, only apply to law abiding gun owners and secondly, be shutting the doors after the horse has bolted IMO. I'm personally not sure what the answer is, but I think there's gonna be plenty more bloodshed before anything gets sorted out.


    Just like to also acknowledge that yes, there has been shootings carried out by people using registered guns, so like I said above, god knows what the answer is......

  • Options

    se9addick said:

    Dazzler21 said:

    se9addick said:

    How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?

    Why is it relevant ?
    Why isn't it relevant? It supports the fact that Black lives do in fact matter. ALL lives matter is what they should be championing.

    Regarding taser use on baggy clothes

    “The most effective place for a TASER probe to hit is one probe above the belt and one below the belt with a spread of a foot or more,” Tracy said. Baggy clothing can get in the way of probes making contact with the skin. Denim can stop the probes getting through all together. The probe can also come loose of the wire/skin and the probes can be shot too close together.

    All of these scenarios would leave the intended target unaffected.

    “A lot of times the top dart misses or the bottom dart misses,” Paxton said. "The top probe has a laser sight on it and is fired directly, while the second probe is fired at an angle. Firing it from a distance usually means a better spread of the probes, but the probability of missing is greatly increased by distance.”

    It also is difficult to hit a moving target. If the probes are not shot directly into the subject, the TASER takes time and can be difficult to reload.

    “The TASER X-26 (U.S standard Police issue) is limited to one deployment at a time,” Tracy said. "While the cartridge can be dropped and reloaded, reloading is difficult under stress.”
    But black lives clearly don't matter to all coppers in the states, that's entirely the point.
    And neither do white lives matter to all coppers otherwise no white people would have been killed.
    there was a really high profile case in america not long ago where a white college athlete essentially got off scot free on a sexual assault and rape charge because it might "hurt his career" further down the line. The reporting of the case used a college grad photo of him, not a police mug shot they usually use
    That was used in/by his defence yes but he was still found guilty. And pretty much everyone (not least other Americans) was in uproar about how lenient his sentencing was. SOME of the reporting did use a grad photo but there were plenty of others who used the mug shot. It was nearly universally seen as a travesty that he got out so lightly.
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lBoK_73NMJs

    Rosenberg's rant (around 9 minutes) on this subject is spot on to me. One of the biggest problems at the moment is that no police officers ever seem to acknowledge that one of them has done wrong. Like he says, in any other profession, someone who can't do their job properly will lose it and will not be so protected by people in the same job. Tensions would surely be a lot less strained if some police officers went to demonstrations or at least admitted that something was not done correctly and they would have done things differently.
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    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    image
    I'd say thanks for that meme a 16 year old knocked up in his room, but my opinion stands.
    Once again completely unable to get the point and continue to troll a thread about some one who's died. Super classy.
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  • Options

    A while back (after another mass shooting) there was a claim on here, in all seriousness as far as I could tell, that the shooting wouldn't have happened if the victims had been armed. Well, the pólice here were armed, but they didn't seem to be able to swat away the bullets with their guns. I know it's been round the mulberry Bush interminably on here, but for me, another arguement from the very small CL Gun Lobby evaporates. Guns do not make you safer.

    I think the argument is that enough of the US public would like the choice (rightly or wrongly) to be able to defend themselves from the amount of illegal firearms in circulation over there, it is as simple as that. Anything that is done now, like a ban on the sale of ALL firearms will firstly, only apply to law abiding gun owners and secondly, be shutting the doors after the horse has bolted IMO. I'm personally not sure what the answer is, but I think there's gonna be plenty more bloodshed before anything gets sorted out.


    Just like to also acknowledge that yes, there has been shootings carried out by people using registered guns, so like I said above, god knows what the answer is......

    Bigger faster guns for everyone.
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    After the 9.11 plane hijacking some Americans were saying that everyone boarding a plane should be armed in case there are any terrorists on board.

    Until these type of views on guns change and gun laws completely overhauled I'm afraid this is what you get
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    edited July 2016


    Only an idiot would argue that there isn't a big problem with racism in the States - with a history of segragation and lynchings it's hardly a surprise.
    If an issue doesn't affect you it's easy to ignore it.

    I'd argue that only an idiot would be in complete denial of the fact that there's a massive problem in the black communities in most US cities with em shooting each other, leading in turn to the Police shooting them. Again, these the police in the latest 2 shooting look to be at fault, but that isn't necessarily the case for ALL of the others...IMO
    Only just seen this, nail on head IMO also, was wondering if anyone had the spine to say it.
    image
    I'd say thanks for that meme a 16 year old knocked up in his room, but my opinion stands.
    Once again completely unable to get the point and continue to troll a thread about some one who's died. Super classy.
    Troll? You've just sent a meme with a fictional character from the matrix mate behave yourself.

    I know it's hard for you to take but I've a different opinion to you, try and get that point and stop sulking.

    Take it it's you who has flagged it, well if not whoever has has some sensitivity issues, seek help.
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    Should be ALL Lives Matter rather than Black Lives Matter... We're all human beings at the end of the day!!

    Of course all lives matter but in a country where only white lives seem to, the slogan is pretty self-explanatory.
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    Of which 136 are African American mate

    So the majority are not black then

    #whitelivesmatter

    Do you practice being thick as shit or does it come naturally?
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    se9addick said:

    se9addick said:

    How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?

    Why is it relevant ?
    Well because if law enforcement in the US is so inherently racist, as quite a few people on both sides of the pond keep saying, surely this would be the case in them not wishing to save lives as well as cold bloodedly shooting non white folk on sight
    Eh - so because the police have done their job some of the time we can ignore a couple of summary executions here or there ?
    You know that ain't what I'm saying ffs
    You certainly gave that impression.
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    It may seem a flimsy link to make, but the criticism of the film industry for the 'white' nature of the Oscar nominations suggests that structurally the United States has huge issues with racism. Not simply white black racism but for other communities too. Trump has gone on about Muslims and Mexicans to what seems like acclaim.
    Structural racism combined with a heavily armed society is proving disastrous. The road rage incident reported by Grapevine, whilst nothing to do with race is a lot to do with weapons. An incident that ought to have at worse led to a letter to a local newspaper was turned into a killing because guns are so readily to hand.
    On Newsnight last night there was an interview with a mother who had lost her son in a police killing and she was alongside a Pastor. They expressed very well this problem, and statistics back them up, there is an equality and fairness deficit that affect minority communities from Hollywood stars to the ordinary person.
    It is amazing that Obama was elected twice in this context, but then again a lot of his programmes are thwarted by the wider political system.
    .
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    edited July 2016
    Wow. So much aggression and anger on here.

    Good job we haven't all got guns.
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