So the North Koreans have again launched a ballistic missile and this time they say it can reach all of continental USA. The missile launched was a new type of icbm and reached a confirmed altitude that would seem to confirm the claims made by Pyongyang.
I had thought the gap between the last launch and this one had meant that diplomacy was having an effect. It seems those hopes are in tatters. Where does this leave our security ?
So the North Koreans have again launched a ballistic missile and this time they say it can reach all of continental USA. The missile launched was a new type of icbm and reached a confirmed altitude that would seem to confirm the claims made by Pyongyang.
I had thought the gap between the last launch and this one had meant that diplomacy was having an effect. It seems those hopes are in tatters. Where does this leave our security ?
Relax. Nothing will come of it.
Mmmmm.......history would suggest otherwise!
I think history would side with Rodney here! When has a rogue state ever fired a nuke at a country? Never, NK must know any aggression will lead to them being wiped out, I'm sure they have nly want these weapons to not go the way of Iraq / lybia etc
So the North Koreans have again launched a ballistic missile and this time they say it can reach all of continental USA. The missile launched was a new type of icbm and reached a confirmed altitude that would seem to confirm the claims made by Pyongyang.
I had thought the gap between the last launch and this one had meant that diplomacy was having an effect. It seems those hopes are in tatters. Where does this leave our security ?
Relax. Nothing will come of it.
Mmmmm.......history would suggest otherwise!
I think history would side with Rodney here! When has a rogue state ever fired a nuke at a country? Never, NK must know any aggression will lead to them being wiped out, I'm sure they have nly want these weapons to not go the way of Iraq / lybia etc
I agree with this view. Kim Jong Un wants to protect his dynasty from outside interference. Having a military like he does and now a nuclear option pretty much does exactly that.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
I think it's pretty easy to rule it out, I believe history is still on my side here, the US are not going to want to wipe out South Korea, nor would they want war with China, who, I'm pretty sure, still have a defence pact with the North.
I really believe the North having nukes is more likely to lead to peace than them not.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
I think it's pretty easy to rule it out, I believe history is still on my side here, the US are not going to want to wipe out South Korea, nor would they want war with China, who, I'm pretty sure, still have a defence pact with the North.
I really believe the North having nukes is more likely to lead to peace than them not.
Mmmm.......it can’t be denied that nuclear weapons have more than likely deterred a number of potential major conflicts since Hiroshima but these have involved nations with at least a modicum of rational sanity. It’s just that some very nasty unhinged bastards are slowly but surely obtaining nuclear weapons.....ie NK. Sooner or later some crazy fuckers are going to set one off. Either that or nuclear capability will eventually fall into the hands of religious fanatics.....which is why we simply cannot afford to be allowing their spread.......starting with NK. I remain of the opinion that China should involve themselves far more in sorting this extremely complicated issue out in what is really their own backyard. Naive......maybe I am but think of the cudos this would give them on the world stage and would win them many friends both near and far.
We'll all be fine until someone finally decides to use their nuclear weapons - I'm not of the opinion that this will never happen.
I agree, I just don't think it will be North Korea to do it, China won't let it happen, they have too much money invested in every corner of the globe to let this escalate into war, especially a nuclear war, literally on their doorstep.
We'll all be fine until someone finally decides to use their nuclear weapons - I'm not of the opinion that this will never happen.
I agree, I just don't think it will be North Korea to do it, China won't let it happen, they have too much money invested in every corner of the globe to let this escalate into war, especially a nuclear war, literally on their doorstep.
I hope it never happens and that's all we can do. The last few years have left me feeling a lot less optimistic.
We'll all be fine until someone finally decides to use their nuclear weapons - I'm not of the opinion that this will never happen.
I agree, I just don't think it will be North Korea to do it, China won't let it happen, they have too much money invested in every corner of the globe to let this escalate into war, especially a nuclear war, literally on their doorstep.
I’m pleased to hear you say that China wouldn’t let it happen......but surely it would be better to stop NK getting the capability in the first place. As a matter of interest how do you think China would go about stopping them once they have it? I assume there’s a significant difference between stopping it before they get it and stopping it once they have it......so really there’s two different scenarios that China need to consider......and consider right now if I’m not mistaken.
Why would it be better for a main ally to not have Nuclear weapons? It's not like NK would turn around and pop one off at the only country that keeps them in existence. They also share several common enemies, primarily Japan.
I also think only one city is making the decisions with what NK are doing and it ain't Pyongyang.
I doubt any of NK's tests have been done without prior approval from the city I believe to be making the decisions, giving them the 'distractions' they need.
I hope you can understand why I'm being a little vague here, posting real, open opinions on the internet can be quite dangerous and I'm too pretty for prison!
We'll all be fine until someone finally decides to use their nuclear weapons - I'm not of the opinion that this will never happen.
I agree, I just don't think it will be North Korea to do it, China won't let it happen, they have too much money invested in every corner of the globe to let this escalate into war, especially a nuclear war, literally on their doorstep.
China could have and without doubt should have done more to stop North Korea becoming part of the nuclear capability club. The question that needs answering is why it hasn’t. China’s position on the global stage is very different to how it was even ten years ago. The next twenty years will see it become the greatest. Power on earth. Very little can stop that. China has an agenda for every aspect of its growth and world status. I don’t think that includes making the USA and the west in general feel secure. It has been a closed nation and in many ways still is. I doubt that there is too much experience or will on the diplomatic stage for China to to be openly benevolent. I doubt it even understands that concept in international terms. The Chinese are a fledgling superpower and are still learning to spread their wings and flex their muscles. I suspect that having the status quo maintained in their own backyard and to embarrass the USA suits them fine for now. At some point I see the Chinese slapping down the Pyongyang regime and even annexing North Korea but only when it suits.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
Problem with the carrot is that the Donald will then moan about giving 'aid' because it plays nicely to his audience of misanthropic xenophobes - what he'll do in reality is just extend what the yanks have been doing in the middle east - carpet bombing the shit out of the place and then parachuting in their own contractors to 'rebuild' it - pissing everybody else off by creating even more economic instability
Why would it be better for a main ally to not have Nuclear weapons? It's not like NK would turn around and pop one off at the only country that keeps them in existence. They also share several common enemies, primarily Japan.
I also think only one city is making the decisions with what NK are doing and it ain't Pyongyang.
I doubt any of NK's tests have been done without prior approval from the city I believe to be making the decisions, giving them the 'distractions' they need.
I hope you can understand why I'm being a little vague here, posting real, open opinions on the internet can be quite dangerous and I'm too pretty for prison!
Well I have wondered about that as a matter of fact......thanks for your opinion. Re your last sentence.....I’ve tacitly realised that for a good while.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
Problem with the carrot is that the Donald will then moan about giving 'aid' because it plays nicely to his audience of misanthropic xenophobes - what he'll do in reality is just extend what the yanks have been doing in the middle east - carpet bombing the shit out of the place and then parachuting in their own contractors to 'rebuild' it - pissing everybody else off by creating even more economic instability
I really don’t see the USA being keen or allowed to get involved in that way in China’s backyard.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
Problem with the carrot is that the Donald will then moan about giving 'aid' because it plays nicely to his audience of misanthropic xenophobes - what he'll do in reality is just extend what the yanks have been doing in the middle east - carpet bombing the shit out of the place and then parachuting in their own contractors to 'rebuild' it - pissing everybody else off by creating even more economic instability
I really can't see America getting into armed conflict with China though, look at all the promises Trump made about stopping the currency manipulation and balancing the trade, he just can't do it as America are far too reliant on China right now.
For anyone not familiar with it, I'd really suggesst reading about the One Belt, One Road initiative, that is how China is currently spreading it's wings and winning influence all over the world.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
Problem with the carrot is that the Donald will then moan about giving 'aid' because it plays nicely to his audience of misanthropic xenophobes - what he'll do in reality is just extend what the yanks have been doing in the middle east - carpet bombing the shit out of the place and then parachuting in their own contractors to 'rebuild' it - pissing everybody else off by creating even more economic instability
I really can't see America getting into armed conflict with China though, look at all the promises Trump made about stopping the currency manipulation and balancing the trade, he just can't do it as America are far too reliant on China right now.
For anyone not familiar with it, I'd really suggesst reading about the One Belt, One Road initiative, that is how China is currently spreading it's wings and winning influence all over the world.
A large part of the world is heavily reliant on Chinese finance so like Saudi Arabia human rights will go out of the window. Democracy is not seen as a good thing in China as it impacts long term planning.
China could quite easily shut down NK if it so desired - the West can't.
We cannot rule out USA making a catastrophic non nuclear first strike just to get rid of NK’s nuclear capability. I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary. Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that. Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
Problem with the carrot is that the Donald will then moan about giving 'aid' because it plays nicely to his audience of misanthropic xenophobes - what he'll do in reality is just extend what the yanks have been doing in the middle east - carpet bombing the shit out of the place and then parachuting in their own contractors to 'rebuild' it - pissing everybody else off by creating even more economic instability
I really can't see America getting into armed conflict with China though, look at all the promises Trump made about stopping the currency manipulation and balancing the trade, he just can't do it as America are far too reliant on China right now.
For anyone not familiar with it, I'd really suggesst reading about the One Belt, One Road initiative, that is how China is currently spreading it's wings and winning influence all over the world.
A large part of the world is heavily reliant on Chinese finance so like Saudi Arabia human rights will go out of the window. Democracy is not seen as a good thing in China as it impacts long term planning.
China could quite easily shut down NK if it so desired - the West can't.
Exactly, if Mr Xi said stop this nonsense, it would stop, pronto, there's a reason it doesn't happen.
I think it's more about self preservation for Kim, having seen what happened to Saddam & Gaddafi in countries that were prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons. The pertinent question should be, how the hell was he allowed to get to this point? The answer of course is, he has managed to do so, as a result of piss weak leadership in the West. President Trump is now in the unenviable position of trying to deal with this problem largely created by the inaction of previous administrations. Same with ISIS, another war that we are finally starting to win, thanks to his tough leadership. Ironic really that the usual suspects try to pin the blame on President Trump when he is finally taking the tough stance that should have been adopted years ago. Prevention is always better than cure! Yours sincerely, the only President Trump supporter on CL
It's like reading President Trump's twitter feed!
So tell me, where does this tough stance lead? And how will it end? Military action? Raining "fire and fury" down upon North Korea? Do you know what happens then? Tens of thousands, potentially many, many more, die in South Korea and Japan, not to mention Guam and any and everywhere else North Korea could hit with both conventional and nuclear weapons. Such tough leadership! Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?
I will absolutely grant you that Trump didn't create this mess, but he has managed to make it a hell of a lot worse. Fortunately, he's a bluffer and everyone knows his, and if pushed he'll back down (see: Comey tapes, Healthcare, firing Mueller-though he could still do that of course, Obama wiretapping him).
Yeh Assad found out just how much of a bluffer President Trump is ! President Trump wasn't the one firing intimidating missiles every few weeks and threatening to hit America with a nuclear war head. But you want him to continue to tickle Kim's belly whilst continuing the soft diplomatic route that has led us to this dangerous situation. Diplomacy has been tried, it has failed, can you not see that? The bloke has developed nuclear weapons and is threatening your country, but you blame your democratically elected President. A despot like Kim does not understand diplomacy, hopefully he might understand tough talk more. Just perhaps tough talk can sometimes be highly effective, there's a concept eh! Southern border illegal immigration down over 70% under President Trumps leadership. Not because the wall has been constructed, but because of President Trumps tough rhetoric and implementation of border security, people are no longer taking the risk. Tough talk! As for all the Mueller stuff, 10 months and still nothing, Manafort is the closest you've come. Trump junior releases his entire email trail, whilst Hillary deletes 33,000 of hers, uses bleachbit, smashes her blackbury's with hammers, her staff plead the fifth under interrorgation, but heh, no problem, let's continue going after Trump. The Clinton Campaign meet with Ukrainians at the Ukrainian embassy in order to collect dirt on the Trump campaign, but heh, that's fine, ignore that. The FBI (under Comey) and the justice dept collude in an effort to coverup the Tarmac meeting between Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton. First they insist there are no relevent documents. Then it transpires that there are over 400, but when they are finally released under FOI, all the important bits, including the "talking points" have been redacted ! More to come on this one, I've heard it said that Hillary is trying to negotiate a plea bargain. Trump will stand or fall on one thing, the economy. People are sick of all the Russian collusion stuff. Trust in the media is at an all time low because they are seeing that it is a total beat up. Chuck Schumer came close to admitting as much a couple of weeks ago, when he said the election wasn't lost because of Russia, it was lost because of their policies, or lack of, finally some honest reflection from the democrats! The fact is, the jobless rate is at a 16 year low, the stock market is at an all time high. Jobs are returning as manufacturing ramps up and regulations are reduced. People's 401k's are booming, GDP is at 2.6% matching the highest ever achieved by Obamma during his entire 8 years in office. You can plug away as much as you want denigrating your President, but if the economy continues to improve, he will be re elected and the policies that you hate so much, will be accepted by an ever increasing number of the the American people.
Mmmm. It's fascinating sometimes to look back at old posts!
I think it's more about self preservation for Kim, having seen what happened to Saddam & Gaddafi in countries that were prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons. The pertinent question should be, how the hell was he allowed to get to this point? The answer of course is, he has managed to do so, as a result of piss weak leadership in the West. President Trump is now in the unenviable position of trying to deal with this problem largely created by the inaction of previous administrations. Same with ISIS, another war that we are finally starting to win, thanks to his tough leadership. Ironic really that the usual suspects try to pin the blame on President Trump when he is finally taking the tough stance that should have been adopted years ago. Prevention is always better than cure! Yours sincerely, the only President Trump supporter on CL
It's like reading President Trump's twitter feed!
So tell me, where does this tough stance lead? And how will it end? Military action? Raining "fire and fury" down upon North Korea? Do you know what happens then? Tens of thousands, potentially many, many more, die in South Korea and Japan, not to mention Guam and any and everywhere else North Korea could hit with both conventional and nuclear weapons. Such tough leadership! Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?
I will absolutely grant you that Trump didn't create this mess, but he has managed to make it a hell of a lot worse. Fortunately, he's a bluffer and everyone knows his, and if pushed he'll back down (see: Comey tapes, Healthcare, firing Mueller-though he could still do that of course, Obama wiretapping him).
Yeh Assad found out just how much of a bluffer President Trump is ! President Trump wasn't the one firing intimidating missiles every few weeks and threatening to hit America with a nuclear war head. But you want him to continue to tickle Kim's belly whilst continuing the soft diplomatic route that has led us to this dangerous situation. Diplomacy has been tried, it has failed, can you not see that? The bloke has developed nuclear weapons and is threatening your country, but you blame your democratically elected President. A despot like Kim does not understand diplomacy, hopefully he might understand tough talk more. Just perhaps tough talk can sometimes be highly effective, there's a concept eh! Southern border illegal immigration down over 70% under President Trumps leadership. Not because the wall has been constructed, but because of President Trumps tough rhetoric and implementation of border security, people are no longer taking the risk. Tough talk! As for all the Mueller stuff, 10 months and still nothing, Manafort is the closest you've come. Trump junior releases his entire email trail, whilst Hillary deletes 33,000 of hers, uses bleachbit, smashes her blackbury's with hammers, her staff plead the fifth under interrorgation, but heh, no problem, let's continue going after Trump. The Clinton Campaign meet with Ukrainians at the Ukrainian embassy in order to collect dirt on the Trump campaign, but heh, that's fine, ignore that. The FBI (under Comey) and the justice dept collude in an effort to coverup the Tarmac meeting between Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton. First they insist there are no relevent documents. Then it transpires that there are over 400, but when they are finally released under FOI, all the important bits, including the "talking points" have been redacted ! More to come on this one, I've heard it said that Hillary is trying to negotiate a plea bargain. Trump will stand or fall on one thing, the economy. People are sick of all the Russian collusion stuff. Trust in the media is at an all time low because they are seeing that it is a total beat up. Chuck Schumer came close to admitting as much a couple of weeks ago, when he said the election wasn't lost because of Russia, it was lost because of their policies, or lack of, finally some honest reflection from the democrats! The fact is, the jobless rate is at a 16 year low, the stock market is at an all time high. Jobs are returning as manufacturing ramps up and regulations are reduced. People's 401k's are booming, GDP is at 2.6% matching the highest ever achieved by Obamma during his entire 8 years in office. You can plug away as much as you want denigrating your President, but if the economy continues to improve, he will be re elected and the policies that you hate so much, will be accepted by an ever increasing number of the the American people.
Mmmm. It's fascinating sometimes to look back at old posts!
I think it's more about self preservation for Kim, having seen what happened to Saddam & Gaddafi in countries that were prevented from acquiring nuclear weapons. The pertinent question should be, how the hell was he allowed to get to this point? The answer of course is, he has managed to do so, as a result of piss weak leadership in the West. President Trump is now in the unenviable position of trying to deal with this problem largely created by the inaction of previous administrations. Same with ISIS, another war that we are finally starting to win, thanks to his tough leadership. Ironic really that the usual suspects try to pin the blame on President Trump when he is finally taking the tough stance that should have been adopted years ago. Prevention is always better than cure! Yours sincerely, the only President Trump supporter on CL
It's like reading President Trump's twitter feed!
So tell me, where does this tough stance lead? And how will it end? Military action? Raining "fire and fury" down upon North Korea? Do you know what happens then? Tens of thousands, potentially many, many more, die in South Korea and Japan, not to mention Guam and any and everywhere else North Korea could hit with both conventional and nuclear weapons. Such tough leadership! Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?
I will absolutely grant you that Trump didn't create this mess, but he has managed to make it a hell of a lot worse. Fortunately, he's a bluffer and everyone knows his, and if pushed he'll back down (see: Comey tapes, Healthcare, firing Mueller-though he could still do that of course, Obama wiretapping him).
Yeh Assad found out just how much of a bluffer President Trump is ! President Trump wasn't the one firing intimidating missiles every few weeks and threatening to hit America with a nuclear war head. But you want him to continue to tickle Kim's belly whilst continuing the soft diplomatic route that has led us to this dangerous situation. Diplomacy has been tried, it has failed, can you not see that? The bloke has developed nuclear weapons and is threatening your country, but you blame your democratically elected President. A despot like Kim does not understand diplomacy, hopefully he might understand tough talk more. Just perhaps tough talk can sometimes be highly effective, there's a concept eh! Southern border illegal immigration down over 70% under President Trumps leadership. Not because the wall has been constructed, but because of President Trumps tough rhetoric and implementation of border security, people are no longer taking the risk. Tough talk! As for all the Mueller stuff, 10 months and still nothing, Manafort is the closest you've come. Trump junior releases his entire email trail, whilst Hillary deletes 33,000 of hers, uses bleachbit, smashes her blackbury's with hammers, her staff plead the fifth under interrorgation, but heh, no problem, let's continue going after Trump. The Clinton Campaign meet with Ukrainians at the Ukrainian embassy in order to collect dirt on the Trump campaign, but heh, that's fine, ignore that. The FBI (under Comey) and the justice dept collude in an effort to coverup the Tarmac meeting between Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton. First they insist there are no relevent documents. Then it transpires that there are over 400, but when they are finally released under FOI, all the important bits, including the "talking points" have been redacted ! More to come on this one, I've heard it said that Hillary is trying to negotiate a plea bargain. Trump will stand or fall on one thing, the economy. People are sick of all the Russian collusion stuff. Trust in the media is at an all time low because they are seeing that it is a total beat up. Chuck Schumer came close to admitting as much a couple of weeks ago, when he said the election wasn't lost because of Russia, it was lost because of their policies, or lack of, finally some honest reflection from the democrats! The fact is, the jobless rate is at a 16 year low, the stock market is at an all time high. Jobs are returning as manufacturing ramps up and regulations are reduced. People's 401k's are booming, GDP is at 2.6% matching the highest ever achieved by Obamma during his entire 8 years in office. You can plug away as much as you want denigrating your President, but if the economy continues to improve, he will be re elected and the policies that you hate so much, will be accepted by an ever increasing number of the the American people.
Mmmm. It's fascinating sometimes to look back at old posts!
Alternatively, the exact opposite worked with the Moon government welcoming the North into the fold.
I don't really understand what North Korea is up to - time will tell?
It's a combination of pressure from their paymasters, China, and the mountain used as their test site collapsing.
But of course it was Trump calling him Rocket Man that made the real difference ffs!!
Yeah this is the impression I get as well, at least regarding the nuclear test site.
On the China thing, Bob or @Stu_of_Kunming (or anyone else with insights) can you guys shed any more light on that? Obviously Kim was there what, a couple weeks ago, and China certainly have more sway with him than anyone else. But do you how hard they're pushing him to come to the table, and if so, why? We've long assumed that the worst possible outcome for China in all of this is a unified Korean peninsula, which could put a US ally and potentially US troops on their border, plus lead to a flood of North Korean refugees into China. Obviously we're a long way from that, but there seems to be movement toward an open North to one degree or another.
There may be another play here, something thrown out by war criminal Henry Kissinger, which was proposing to China that they nudge the North away from their weapons test in return for a US draw down from the Korean peninsula, and potentially down the line the US leaving or at least having a huge drawdown of troops and weapons from a unified Korean peninsula. And if the Trump Administration (of whom Kissinger is an informal advisor, as he seems to be to all Administrations) has set up the dominoes that way then kudos to them.
Obviously a lot of caveats, including the fact that a cease in nuclear testing, or even a detante, is not the same as a unified peninsula. But there doesn't seem to be anything huge on the table as an incentive (that I'm aware of) that hasn't been there before. Of course the answer in all this may be more simple than we realize, things are just far worse in DPRK than we realize. Or that they're not as successful with their weapons testing as we were lead to believe. But yeah, I'm curious as to insights on what China might be thinking here. It seems to be pretty well accepted wisdom that a, shall we say stubborn and independent North under the Kim regime has a lot of benefits for them.
I don't really understand what North Korea is up to - time will tell?
It's a combination of pressure from their paymasters, China, and the mountain used as their test site collapsing.
But of course it was Trump calling him Rocket Man that made the real difference ffs!!
My views on Trump are pretty clear, I think. But you do have to give him some credit here surely? There has to have been significant pressure and concessions from his administration for this to go ahead.
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I wouldn’t mind betting that there are plans already in place to do just that should they deem it necessary.
Keep rattling Trumps cage long enough and he could possibly say fuck it and do just that.
Justifiable......I honestly don’t know but there are plenty of Yanks who would welcome it and of course just as many who wouldn’t.
The problem with this is it doesn’t take into consideration North Korea’s conventional forces and weapons. They have tanks, missile batteries aircraft and boots enough to overrun the South without too much resistance. A pre emptive strike by the USA would also need to be damned sure that all of the nuclear capability is destroyed. I don’t think that’s possible. It would also turn that region into total war zone effectively sacrificing South Korea. Japan too could also be significantly impacted. I just don’t see it happening.
The solution is to boost and reinvigorate the defences in the region and to monitor the Pyongyang regime like a hawk accepting that a potential nut job has nuclear weapons.
Better still infiltrate the top brass within the NK army and get them to get rid. The carrot being massive aid for the country.
Which of these happens is anyone’s guess but most dictators come to a sticky end eventually.
I really believe the North having nukes is more likely to lead to peace than them not.
It’s just that some very nasty unhinged bastards are slowly but surely obtaining nuclear weapons.....ie NK.
Sooner or later some crazy fuckers are going to set one off. Either that or nuclear capability will eventually fall into the hands of religious fanatics.....which is why we simply cannot afford to be allowing their spread.......starting with NK.
I remain of the opinion that China should involve themselves far more in sorting this extremely complicated issue out in what is really their own backyard.
Naive......maybe I am but think of the cudos this would give them on the world stage and would win them many friends both near and far.
As a matter of interest how do you think China would go about stopping them once they have it?
I assume there’s a significant difference between stopping it before they get it and stopping it once they have it......so really there’s two different scenarios that China need to consider......and consider right now if I’m not mistaken.
I also think only one city is making the decisions with what NK are doing and it ain't Pyongyang.
I doubt any of NK's tests have been done without prior approval from the city I believe to be making the decisions, giving them the 'distractions' they need.
I hope you can understand why I'm being a little vague here, posting real, open opinions on the internet can be quite dangerous and I'm too pretty for prison!
Re your last sentence.....I’ve tacitly realised that for a good while.
For anyone not familiar with it, I'd really suggesst reading about the One Belt, One Road initiative, that is how China is currently spreading it's wings and winning influence all over the world.
China could quite easily shut down NK if it so desired - the West can't.
But of course it was Trump calling him Rocket Man that made the real difference ffs!!
On the China thing, Bob or @Stu_of_Kunming (or anyone else with insights) can you guys shed any more light on that? Obviously Kim was there what, a couple weeks ago, and China certainly have more sway with him than anyone else. But do you how hard they're pushing him to come to the table, and if so, why? We've long assumed that the worst possible outcome for China in all of this is a unified Korean peninsula, which could put a US ally and potentially US troops on their border, plus lead to a flood of North Korean refugees into China. Obviously we're a long way from that, but there seems to be movement toward an open North to one degree or another.
There may be another play here, something thrown out by war criminal Henry Kissinger, which was proposing to China that they nudge the North away from their weapons test in return for a US draw down from the Korean peninsula, and potentially down the line the US leaving or at least having a huge drawdown of troops and weapons from a unified Korean peninsula. And if the Trump Administration (of whom Kissinger is an informal advisor, as he seems to be to all Administrations) has set up the dominoes that way then kudos to them.
Obviously a lot of caveats, including the fact that a cease in nuclear testing, or even a detante, is not the same as a unified peninsula. But there doesn't seem to be anything huge on the table as an incentive (that I'm aware of) that hasn't been there before. Of course the answer in all this may be more simple than we realize, things are just far worse in DPRK than we realize. Or that they're not as successful with their weapons testing as we were lead to believe. But yeah, I'm curious as to insights on what China might be thinking here. It seems to be pretty well accepted wisdom that a, shall we say stubborn and independent North under the Kim regime has a lot of benefits for them.