We can only judge on what goes on on the pitch. There may have been things that went on behind the scenes with Sinclair and Pardew - whether it was more Sinclair or Pardew, I can only speculate that there a clash between the two.
[cite]Posted By: WSS[/cite]We can only judge on what goes on on the pitch. There may have been things that went on behind the scenes with Sinclair and Pardew - whether it was more Sinclair or Pardew, we can only speculate but there was an obvious clash.
How can you say you can only judge on what goes on on the pitch and that there "may" have been things going on behind the scenes but then contradict yourself and say there was an "obvious clash".
There may have been a hundred reasons why including Pardew getting it wrong and Sinclair not being good/determined enough. Doesn't mean that there was a "clash"
i was annoyed when we let him go, showed on monday night that he has the ability.
it may be a clash of personalities or something between him and pardew but as a manager he should be able to deal with that for the good of the team.
The kid got so much abuse on here which was unfair, he played 109mins in 3 games and 75 mins was against preston and as said above the team were awful.
Somebody said before that against preston he had the chance to skin the full back but kept coming inside, all our wimgers seem to do the same, maybe its down to pardew
well i had a problem with it and still do.Big time feck up,funny isn't it Lita did nothing against preston or burnley and was kept in after a couple more games he is performing,shame we didn't give sinclair that opportunity.
[cite]Posted By: northstandsteve[/cite]we should never have signed him,he aint good enough to clean sinclairs bloody boots.
Are you basing that on the fact that Sinclair comes from Chelsea? Because it could be argued - not that i'm going to because i feel sick - McLeod has produced more and contributed more to his team in the coca-cola leagues than Sinclair ever has...
My impression, and this isn't based on any facts just the way I see it, is that while Curbs would wait for ever to buy a player, watching them many times and sometimes missing out having taken too long but then keeping players past their sell by date, Pardew makes quick decisions to bring people in and to ship them out.
Now you can call that decisive and confident or rash and inconsistant depending on your view of the player and/or Pardew but that's how I see it.
Sinclair is clearly a quality act and in this day and age four millions is peanuts given his age and potential.
Think of Walcott - lots of people have written him off but in one run yesterday he would have paid back most of his transfer fee if Arsenal's defence hadn't gone to sleep and given away a dodgy pen moments later...
A couple of weeks ago Brighton fans were hailing Raccon and after his latest game, and their latest defeat they want to get rid of him.
A couple of weeks ago some here wanted to get rid of Scott Sinclair because he offered nothing special or at least nothing that we didn't already possess in the shape of Jerome Thomas or Lee Cook. However one good performance for Palace and they are now calling it a mistake by Pardew to have him go. Never mind that he didn't impress when he was at QPR and Plymouth, the fact that he had one good game is apparently evidence that Pardew mismanaged him and the club have made a mistake.
The only consistent thing about most football fans is their ability to be short-term thinkers.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]A couple of weeks ago Brighton fans were hailing Raccon and after his latest game, and their latest defeat they want to get rid of him.
A couple of weeks ago some here wanted to get rid of Scott Sinclair because he offered nothing special or at least nothing that we didn't already possess in the shape of Jerome Thomas or Lee Cook. However one good performance for Palace and they are now calling it a mistake by Pardew to have him go. Never mind that he didn't impress when he was at QPR and Plymouth, the fact that he had one good game is apparently evidence that Pardew mismanaged him and the club have made a mistake.
The only consistent thing about most football fans is their ability to be short-term thinkers.
nothing short-term about the fact that Sinclair is going to be a fine, fine player...
nothing short-term about the fact that Sinclair is going to be a fine, fine player...
..........
What little I've seen of him suggests that he has got pace, but then so had Rommedahl. My point is that some people in this thread were happy to slag the player off after one poor game, but are now criticising Pardew for letting him go after one good game for Palace.
It can't be easy being bought by a big club, rarely if ever getting a game and then being farmed out on short-term loans to CCC clubs. If we sign loan players I'd rather have them from the start of the season so they can go through pre-season training and we can learn how to get the best out of them and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Coming in mid/end-season and then being thrown in at the deep-end is a bit hit or miss, and it's easy to pass a player like Sinclair over when you have players who can offer what he offers, especially when results aren't going your way.
My guess is that Charlton were offered his services and decided to take him on without really thinking about how and whether he'd fit in.
[cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite]My impression, and this isn't based on any facts just the way I see it, is that while Curbs would wait for ever to buy a player, watching them many times and sometimes missing out having taken too long but then keeping players past their sell by date, Pardew makes quick decisions to bring people in and to ship them out.
Now you can call that decisive and confident or rash and inconsistant depending on your view of the player and/or Pardew but that's how I see it.
If i was a chairman of a football club i would want to make sure that if my manager asked me to sign a player that he had done his homework on the player in question, is he the right player for the club? will he fit in? Whats is his personality like? Is he any better than we already have? Or do we just sign them, pay a transfer fee, pay an agents fee, pay a signing on fee, pay the inflated wages, and then decide after a few weeks/ months we dont need them or they dont fit in, we have found that by not doing the reaserch and buying players with past reputations,i.e Fat Boy Jimmy, Faye,the crap left back from Liverpool and sold five months later,Walton, Dean Sinclair, Racon............you could go on and on over the last two seasons, i find it very hard that Henry states that Curbs would wait for ever to buy a player, watching them many times and sometimes missing out having taken too long but then keeping players past their sell by date. One thing he wouldnt do a CHarlton is pay over the top,now he has elected to do that at West Ham he has got himself in a right pickle. But then look at his past buys, Stuart, Robinson, Nelson,Kinsella, Hunt,Mendonca,Tiler,Todd,Costa, Fish, Bright, Kiely, Pringle, once again we could go on and on, but i maintain all of these players are better than the currnet crop, cost less to buy, and played and wanted to win, yes all managers and clubs can highlight players that they nearly had, but thats part and parcel of football, ask Gillingham how close they were to signing Kinsella??
I said that was my impression of Curbs. His signing record was, IMHO, very good but he too signed a few duffers (jeffers, Denis to name two and for big money). He also kept players like Lisbie around for a long time and didn't allow kids like Lloyd Sam to go out on loan at an early age.
Of the others you name only Dean? Sinclair and Racon were down to Pardew.
My point wasn't to say that Pardew is better than Curbs. Curbs has a much longer and much more impressive track record IMHO. Then again he was given plenty of time and patience to get in right.
izale mccleod scored goals i the fourth division,if you want to take a punt on that kind of player then do so in the £250k bracket not in the £1.5 million bracket.Pards does not seem to realise the size of club we are compared to west ham.The reading chairman wouldn't have let him spend £1.5 mill on a 4th division player.
Henry when it came to dealing within the transfer market Curbs was miles ahead of Pardew. Rommers granted was a huge disapointment, but how many fans were excited at the announcement of his signing as with Jeffers. Would Curbs have spent the kind of money on Gray & McCloed........as for Sam he is still a kid and this is the league to blood him, and judging on his performances this season perhaps Curbishley was the better judge of player as well,its not just the short term loss its the long term loss, we will never recoup the money spent on recent players as well as they are no doubt on very nice contracts and do they really care for the club, thats where we have fell short over the last couple of seasons, as have Fulham and Bolton this season in the premiership
But then look at his past buys, Stuart, Robinson, Nelson,Kinsella, Hunt,Mendonca,Tiler,Todd,Costa, Fish, Bright, Kiely, Pringle
.............
You make some good points and I agree with the gist of what you are saying - that Pardew is more of a whealer-dealer and is prepared to take chances while Curbs was more of a long-term thinker/planner.
But it's dangerous to compare eras, there is more money around now, our expectations of success, especially immediate success are that much greater and times have changed. When Curbs was buying these players out of necessity he had to stick to a strict budget and therefore couldn't afford to over-pay and that dragged negotiations on, for example when Colchester tried to shaft us over Kinsella he had to send him back - what was the transfer fee (something like £125K??) now we'd probably pay that up front and ignore Colchester's attempt to renegotiate the deal at the last minute after the terms had been agreed. Consider also that Robinson was for the first two seasons one of the worst players I've ever seen play for Charlton, lightweight, ineffective, injury prone and chronically lacking in confidence, but then after he got a run in the side he looked and became a different player. If I look at some of the stick that McLeod has got this season for looking lightweight and lacking confidence then I wonder whether we as fans have the same patience as we had a decade ago.
McLeod's fee would have a large chunk based on appearances/performance I would hope, also the Premier league money has gone up massively even since Curbs departure, however I do perhaps agree that he had a different style to Pardew in terms of buying, dealing etc. although I think the world was a very different place back then, and players like Kinsella could still be found as bargains, sadly no longer I fear.
If anything its lazy management, he has looked at who is at the top of goal scoring charts in their leagues, Varney,Mcleod, and Gray and bought on the hope they will continue with their form, then we have signed three players who has been with PArdew or Parkinson Sodje, Halford and Lita, the one that has excelled has been Paddy, a player used to this league and not come in on a big fee, the reason for his sucess is that he ambitious and sees as the perfect club for him to play in the top flight
Comments
http://www.charltonlife.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=15482
How can you say you can only judge on what goes on on the pitch and that there "may" have been things going on behind the scenes but then contradict yourself and say there was an "obvious clash".
There may have been a hundred reasons why including Pardew getting it wrong and Sinclair not being good/determined enough. Doesn't mean that there was a "clash"
it may be a clash of personalities or something between him and pardew but as a manager he should be able to deal with that for the good of the team.
The kid got so much abuse on here which was unfair, he played 109mins in 3 games and 75 mins was against preston and as said above the team were awful.
Somebody said before that against preston he had the chance to skin the full back but kept coming inside, all our wimgers seem to do the same, maybe its down to pardew
well i had a problem with it and still do.Big time feck up,funny isn't it Lita did nothing against preston or burnley and was kept in after a couple more games he is performing,shame we didn't give sinclair that opportunity.
Should we have down the same with McLeod NSS?
You seem to have a problem with everything at the moment you moaning minny. Can't wait til you're feeling better again :-)
He's missing friend NLA : - )
Now you can call that decisive and confident or rash and inconsistant depending on your view of the player and/or Pardew but that's how I see it.
Think of Walcott - lots of people have written him off but in one run yesterday he would have paid back most of his transfer fee if Arsenal's defence hadn't gone to sleep and given away a dodgy pen moments later...
A couple of weeks ago some here wanted to get rid of Scott Sinclair because he offered nothing special or at least nothing that we didn't already possess in the shape of Jerome Thomas or Lee Cook. However one good performance for Palace and they are now calling it a mistake by Pardew to have him go. Never mind that he didn't impress when he was at QPR and Plymouth, the fact that he had one good game is apparently evidence that Pardew mismanaged him and the club have made a mistake.
The only consistent thing about most football fans is their ability to be short-term thinkers.
nothing short-term about the fact that Sinclair is going to be a fine, fine player...
..........
What little I've seen of him suggests that he has got pace, but then so had Rommedahl. My point is that some people in this thread were happy to slag the player off after one poor game, but are now criticising Pardew for letting him go after one good game for Palace.
It can't be easy being bought by a big club, rarely if ever getting a game and then being farmed out on short-term loans to CCC clubs. If we sign loan players I'd rather have them from the start of the season so they can go through pre-season training and we can learn how to get the best out of them and what their strengths and weaknesses are. Coming in mid/end-season and then being thrown in at the deep-end is a bit hit or miss, and it's easy to pass a player like Sinclair over when you have players who can offer what he offers, especially when results aren't going your way.
My guess is that Charlton were offered his services and decided to take him on without really thinking about how and whether he'd fit in.
The fact Lita was allowed to stay in is that he is PROVEN he can cut it at PL level Sinclair hardly gets a game at Chelsea so it's a no brainer.
If i was a chairman of a football club i would want to make sure that if my manager asked me to sign a player that he had done his homework on the player in question, is he the right player for the club? will he fit in? Whats is his personality like? Is he any better than we already have? Or do we just sign them, pay a transfer fee, pay an agents fee, pay a signing on fee, pay the inflated wages, and then decide after a few weeks/ months we dont need them or they dont fit in, we have found that by not doing the reaserch and buying players with past reputations,i.e Fat Boy Jimmy, Faye,the crap left back from Liverpool and sold five months later,Walton, Dean Sinclair, Racon............you could go on and on over the last two seasons, i find it very hard that Henry states that Curbs would wait for ever to buy a player, watching them many times and sometimes missing out having taken too long but then keeping players past their sell by date. One thing he wouldnt do a CHarlton is pay over the top,now he has elected to do that at West Ham he has got himself in a right pickle. But then look at his past buys, Stuart, Robinson, Nelson,Kinsella, Hunt,Mendonca,Tiler,Todd,Costa, Fish, Bright, Kiely, Pringle, once again we could go on and on, but i maintain all of these players are better than the currnet crop, cost less to buy, and played and wanted to win, yes all managers and clubs can highlight players that they nearly had, but thats part and parcel of football, ask Gillingham how close they were to signing Kinsella??
I said that was my impression of Curbs. His signing record was, IMHO, very good but he too signed a few duffers (jeffers, Denis to name two and for big money). He also kept players like Lisbie around for a long time and didn't allow kids like Lloyd Sam to go out on loan at an early age.
Of the others you name only Dean? Sinclair and Racon were down to Pardew.
My point wasn't to say that Pardew is better than Curbs. Curbs has a much longer and much more impressive track record IMHO. Then again he was given plenty of time and patience to get in right.
.............
You make some good points and I agree with the gist of what you are saying - that Pardew is more of a whealer-dealer and is prepared to take chances while Curbs was more of a long-term thinker/planner.
But it's dangerous to compare eras, there is more money around now, our expectations of success, especially immediate success are that much greater and times have changed. When Curbs was buying these players out of necessity he had to stick to a strict budget and therefore couldn't afford to over-pay and that dragged negotiations on, for example when Colchester tried to shaft us over Kinsella he had to send him back - what was the transfer fee (something like £125K??) now we'd probably pay that up front and ignore Colchester's attempt to renegotiate the deal at the last minute after the terms had been agreed. Consider also that Robinson was for the first two seasons one of the worst players I've ever seen play for Charlton, lightweight, ineffective, injury prone and chronically lacking in confidence, but then after he got a run in the side he looked and became a different player. If I look at some of the stick that McLeod has got this season for looking lightweight and lacking confidence then I wonder whether we as fans have the same patience as we had a decade ago.