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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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Comments

  • JackB
    JackB Posts: 8
    The biggest problem in my view is the lack of continuity of our attack.

    Early on in the season we had Leaburn - TC, Leaburn - Kelman, Kelman - TC, Leaburn - TC (again), Kelman - Olaefe,
    Kelman - TC (again), Olaefe - TC, etc etc.

    Never has a partnership ever developed when playing with different partners each week!
    You only have to look at the lack of goals to see it ain't working!

    When you add this to the fact we have no midfielder with any skill or eye for a through ball you get the kind of football we're playing now.

    This is compounded by the fact that teams know how we play and Jones has no idea or is too arrogant to change!

    His constant looking for the cameras to make sure his antics get noticed are doing my nut in!!

    It's embarrassing!!!!


  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,900
    The thing with Nathan Jones is his style is always going to attract far more fan angst when it's not successful. You can put up with relentless boring 1-0 wins every week if you win the title and that pragmatism can be really effective when you're not able to throw money around but when we lose the style acts as a multiplier on the misery for a lot of fans. Ball in the air, very little excitement, 1-2 shots on target if you're lucky and 0 points does not make for a happy fanbase. On balance though his system works pretty well which is why he's here. A thread like this is inevitable because for a lot of people a Nathan Jones loss hurts ten times more than a Chris Powell loss or a Lee Bowyer loss even though we've been just as abject in some of those defeats because the style is so tough to stomach when it doesn't work.
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,267
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    If we stay up, should we still get rid and aim higher? Or at least aim for something resembling a style to our football?
    Would be absolute madness to get rid of Jones. Some of our fans honestly deserve league 1. He’s taken us from 20th in league 1 to 18th in the championship in 2 years and it’s still not enough for some people. The entitlement and tantrum every time we lose a game is embarrassing 
    We can all deal with losing. It’s the manner of the defeats that is troubling. And it’s reasonable to question how far this style of football can take us. 
    There are plenty of championship teams that do well playing a similar direct style that focuses more on out of possession than in possession. Just look at the league table this season, Derby, Hull, Wrexham and Millwall all show up at the bottom end of the possession stats and are all over-performing this season. I’d even suggest that if you want to overperform your budget in the championship, this style is the way to do it. 

    Jones took Luton from just about surviving at this level, to the play offs. I think we are miles away from his ceiling at the moment so it’s ridiculous to even think about moving on from him 
    Correct. But those teams also have an idea and plan of what to do in transition or when they win the ball. It’s quite inconsistent with us. Leicester, QPR and Stoke, we looked much better in possession - both Pompey games, Norwich away, Millwall away, Derby at home, it was clueless, no plan on winning the ball whatsoever. 
    Do you not think Jones intends to develop us in that regard. Like last season for the first few months our football was very basic, by the end of the season it was much better 

    I really don’t think Jones plans to just keep playing this way with us. He will add better players and then be able to play better football. If he tried doing it with this group we’d be lower in the table than we are now 
    Intends maybe, will he succeed that is the question. We played very basic football at the start of last season which did improve, we played basic football at the start of this season (which is fair enough given the quality differential of players we have vs those we're up against) which has not notably improved.

    I've no questions or qualms about what Jones does or why, it's pragmatism pure and simple. But the problem is that Portsmouth showed very clearly that there is a pretty simple way to completely nullify Jonesball in its current form and we may not get the chance to improve.
  • The Red Robin
    The Red Robin Posts: 27,105
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    NabySarr said:
    The Red Robin said:
    If we stay up, should we still get rid and aim higher? Or at least aim for something resembling a style to our football?
    Would be absolute madness to get rid of Jones. Some of our fans honestly deserve league 1. He’s taken us from 20th in league 1 to 18th in the championship in 2 years and it’s still not enough for some people. The entitlement and tantrum every time we lose a game is embarrassing 
    We can all deal with losing. It’s the manner of the defeats that is troubling. And it’s reasonable to question how far this style of football can take us. 
    There are plenty of championship teams that do well playing a similar direct style that focuses more on out of possession than in possession. Just look at the league table this season, Derby, Hull, Wrexham and Millwall all show up at the bottom end of the possession stats and are all over-performing this season. I’d even suggest that if you want to overperform your budget in the championship, this style is the way to do it. 

    Jones took Luton from just about surviving at this level, to the play offs. I think we are miles away from his ceiling at the moment so it’s ridiculous to even think about moving on from him 
    Correct. But those teams also have an idea and plan of what to do in transition or when they win the ball. It’s quite inconsistent with us. Leicester, QPR and Stoke, we looked much better in possession - both Pompey games, Norwich away, Millwall away, Derby at home, it was clueless, no plan on winning the ball whatsoever. 
    Do you not think Jones intends to develop us in that regard. Like last season for the first few months our football was very basic, by the end of the season it was much better 

    I really don’t think Jones plans to just keep playing this way with us. He will add better players and then be able to play better football. If he tried doing it with this group we’d be lower in the table than we are now 
    I’m honestly not sure. He still seems to think Luke Berry may be the answer there. He’s had enough transfer windows to experiment.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
  • raytreacy
    raytreacy Posts: 170
    To me it doesn’t matter what he did, it’s what he does now. The anti football we play is truly awful. It is similar to the stuff John Beck’s Cambridge played. I have had a Season Ticket since we came back to The Valley. I am seriously debating if I want one next Season irrespective of what division we are in. It has been obvious to even the most myopic of Charlton supporters that we need some pace and flair in the side. But Jones doesn’t do flair. It is how much you run and are FRONT FOOTED. It shocked me on Tuesday how much better Portsmouth were than us. How they passed the ball on the floor and how quick they were. With a couple of exceptions we have slow plodders in the team. I came away from the Valley with a neck ache. Because of the amount of times we kicked the ball in the air. I would like to see changes in the Summer starting with Jones being replaced.
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,148
    raytreacy said:
    To me it doesn’t matter what he did, it’s what he does now. The anti football we play is truly awful. It is similar to the stuff John Beck’s Cambridge played. I have had a Season Ticket since we came back to The Valley. I am seriously debating if I want one next Season irrespective of what division we are in. It has been obvious to even the most myopic of Charlton supporters that we need some pace and flair in the side. But Jones doesn’t do flair. It is how much you run and are FRONT FOOTED. It shocked me on Tuesday how much better Portsmouth were than us. How they passed the ball on the floor and how quick they were. With a couple of exceptions we have slow plodders in the team. I came away from the Valley with a neck ache. Because of the amount of times we kicked the ball in the air. I would like to see changes in the Summer starting with Jones being replaced.
    What he’s doing now is keeping us in the championship? 

    Much rather watch us play shit football in the championship than go back to trying to play better football and finishing mid-table in league 1 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 98,116
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo

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  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,148
    Leuth said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo
    The complex we actually have as a club is that whenever anything goes even slightly wrong, people lose their heads demand change. When in reality, continuity is a better way to finding success long term. That’s continuity in style of play and not constantly firing managers on any poor run of form. Look at all the clubs that are well run and successfully moving themselves up the football pyramid, they all have that stability and continuity. Millwall is probably a great example of what we should be aiming to be 

    We simply can’t go back to switching managers and styles of play constantly. We’ve backed Jones, it’s worked amazingly for us. We should stick with Jones, if for whatever reason he leaves or is moved on, then we should be continuing a similar style not making the same mistakes we did in league 1 and jumping to a new style every 6 months 

    Some of our fans need to get a grip. Want the manager sacked every time we lose 5 games, seem to have a meltdown every time we lose 1. It’s embarrassing 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 98,116
    edited February 19
    Leuth said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo
    Because of all the evidence that points to a lack of faith in owners making the right decision perhaps?
    There is a terrible complex in Football that success has to come yesterday, and if there is the slightest mishap then its ditched, whether its player or manager
    Stability is a massive factor that can help, but that takes time and patience, something no one has anymore.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    NabySarr said:
    Leuth said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo
    The complex we actually have as a club is that whenever anything goes even slightly wrong, people lose their heads demand change. When in reality, continuity is a better way to finding success long term. That’s continuity in style of play and not constantly firing managers on any poor run of form. Look at all the clubs that are well run and successfully moving themselves up the football pyramid, they all have that stability and continuity. Millwall is probably a great example of what we should be aiming to be 

    We simply can’t go back to switching managers and styles of play constantly. We’ve backed Jones, it’s worked amazingly for us. We should stick with Jones, if for whatever reason he leaves or is moved on, then we should be continuing a similar style not making the same mistakes we did in league 1 and jumping to a new style every 6 months 

    Some of our fans need to get a grip. Want the manager sacked every time we lose 5 games, seem to have a meltdown every time we lose 1. It’s embarrassing 
    I'm not saying to sack him now. I'm saying to sack him if we go down. And guess what? Everyone will be saying it then 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,148
    edited February 19
    Leuth said:
    NabySarr said:
    Leuth said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo
    The complex we actually have as a club is that whenever anything goes even slightly wrong, people lose their heads demand change. When in reality, continuity is a better way to finding success long term. That’s continuity in style of play and not constantly firing managers on any poor run of form. Look at all the clubs that are well run and successfully moving themselves up the football pyramid, they all have that stability and continuity. Millwall is probably a great example of what we should be aiming to be 

    We simply can’t go back to switching managers and styles of play constantly. We’ve backed Jones, it’s worked amazingly for us. We should stick with Jones, if for whatever reason he leaves or is moved on, then we should be continuing a similar style not making the same mistakes we did in league 1 and jumping to a new style every 6 months 

    Some of our fans need to get a grip. Want the manager sacked every time we lose 5 games, seem to have a meltdown every time we lose 1. It’s embarrassing 
    I'm not saying to sack him now. I'm saying to sack him if we go down. And guess what? Everyone will be saying it then 
    Everyone was saying it in December 2024 and January 2026. They were all wrong though 

    It wasn’t necessarily aimed at you individually, just a general point that the problem with the fanbase is not what you were saying, it is in fact the opposite and that people want change far too often that is our problem 

    Personally I don’t think he should definitely be sacked if we finish 22nd when we have the 22nd highest budget in the league, especially when you factor the main reason we are this low in the first place is not having a fit left back for 2 months 
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,649
    Some of the comments on here are baffling. I can't believe with the squad we have that people actually think we should be playing expansive beautiful football, then have the audacity to moan about the possibility of relegation.

    Portsmouth aside, we keep it tight, take our chances then keep a clean sheet. That formula will keep us in this division and give us a chance to grow in the summer.

    Jones has been brilliant. Turned us into a wrecking ball in the 2nd half of last season, and has got us 7 points clear of the Championship relegation zone in his first season back. You really cannot ask for more from a manager.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    If Jones steers us to safety then hats off, great job. 

    If we go down despite having had a 20? point cushion after WBA, then um nah bye. 

    It's in his hands 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,148
    Leuth said:
    If Jones steers us to safety then hats off, great job. 

    If we go down despite having had a 20? point cushion after WBA, then um nah bye. 

    It's in his hands 
    There’s not even a 20 point gap between the bottom 3 and the play offs now, so there was definitely never that large a gap between us and the drop zone 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    Alright, it was 14 points. That's still pretty huge 
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,438
    Leuth said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Leuth said:
    I'm not saying to get rid of Jones, not at all. But if we find ourselves back in League One, are you seriously Stockholm Syndromed enough to say 'let's do this again'? 
    Yes... "Lets do this again" with a Manager who knows how to get us out of the Division
    We were all elated when Bowyer decided he wanted to move to Birmingham, but apart from a honeymoon period where Adkins had his squad to choose from (we were already coming out of a rut), we ended up with a flurry of Managers who just didn't have a clue, and massively prolonged our stay in League One... Is it worth the risk of repeating that?
    Did you see the signings Adkins etc were saddled with over the next few transfer windows? I genuinely feel sorry for all of them. 

    We'll have an extremely strong L1 squad if we go down. There are many managers I'd trust over Jones to make us into a dominant side with them. 

    We seem to have a complex as a club where we need to stick with what we know as it's good for us. A terrible attitude imo
    Our complex before Jones was the complete opposite of sticking with what we know hence why we got stuck with the likes of Garner and Appleton.

    2 and half seasons of one manager with a decent track record has got us away from being a basket case looking likely to be in division 4 to a clun that has a chance of being in the Championship for the 2nd consecutive season (not achieved that in over a decade)
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 1,206
    If we still find ourselves in a position in a few years time where we can’t play with the ball and are constantly fighting relegation then there’s reason to sack Jones. But with a bottom 3 budget with a squad that got promoted ahead of schedule what can you really expect 

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  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,649
    edited February 19
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,649
    edited February 19
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 98,116
    edited February 19
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    Of course we are... We've been away for five years... the League table doesn't give a shit about our history
    If you looked at the Championship historically, I'd say only Oxford are the true "minnows"
  • Crispywood
    Crispywood Posts: 1,206
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    Neither are Leceister Pompey and West Brom, even if we’re historically a big club we’ve just come off the back of 5 L1 campaigns that’s going to take a toll regardless how big you are 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
  • NabySarr
    NabySarr Posts: 5,148
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
    So you agree that having continuity in style is a good thing that means you finish higher in the table? But would sack the manager and change style if we got relegated? 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    NabySarr said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
    So you agree that having continuity in style is a good thing that means you finish higher in the table? But would sack the manager and change style if we got relegated? 
    Relegation is traditionally the moment to rethink, yes. 

    Like I say, hopefully we finish 18th or 19th and don't have to have this conversation again
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,649
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
    So we're exactly where you think we should be, but want the manager sacked?
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,734
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Leuth said:
    cafcnick1992 said:
    Are any of the anti-NJ brigade brave enough to tell us where they think Charlton should be finishing in the Championship in their first season back?

    After the start we had, not in the bottom three. If we'd been down there all season this would be a different conversation. 

    Also, we're not minnows at Championship level ffs
    We're not in the bottom 3. We're 7 points clear.

    Also don't dodge the question - where should we be finishing?
    Probably about 18th or 19th, given our established style of play, decent spine and summer expenditure? 
    So we're exactly where you think we should be, but want the manager sacked?
    How many times. No I don't. Ive explicitly said I don't. For the love of god 

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