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Our support may make the difference on whether or not we stay up
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Yes, and No.AFKABartram said:Criticise players online is one thing, I’ve never understood getting on backs / being abusive during games.Just seems so counterproductive
For instance, I wasn’t at the game on Boxing Day and only watched it on Sky but from that ‘vantage point’, ironically one that Nathan would have had but from the other side of the pitch, there were a couple of moments where a bit of instant verbal feedback would/should have brought about improvements.
Bree was clearly having one of those days where he couldn’t kick a dead ball. It happens. To continue to be the one/or let him be the one to let him to take the corners and free kicks in the forlorn hope he will eventually get one across was just plain daft. TBF, they eventually did try getting someone else to take a free kick but the ball still got passed to….Bree to ‘not’ get the ball across.
TC, imo is an underrated talent that should have had PL clubs queuing up for him by now but probably because he is a reactive player and not a proactive one he tends to get left in no man’s land at times. He definitely needs a gee up imo, ideally from someone on the pitch and not off it though but in the absence of anybody else taking the lead then it’s always going to be down to the fans and, as for the idea of bringing him on for Bell….thats up there with bringing Miles on for Bell at Coventry imo and that coinciding with quickly turning a 1-0 lead into a 2-1 deficit.
Personally, I thought we were having a good game on Boxing Day. It wasn’t pretty and our attacking play was non-existent or often borderline clueless yet again but I was thinking the gameplan was otherwise pretty solid and could have got us a 0-0 or even a late 1-0 win if it wasn’t for the misjudged substitution.
With that sort of match I think it’s as much incumbent upon the fans to gee up any player or Nathan for that matter as and where necessary as it is to get behind them as much as possible.2 -
On average, season by season, the split is roughly 50% Home Win, 25% Away Win and 25% Draw.Covered End said:
The covid year proved this to be 100% false.MrOneLung said:The crowd has zero influence
There was little difference that year between results home & away.Teams set up differently home and away - that's a fact although for the life of me I've never fully understood why as the pitch is roughly the same size and the laws of the game apply wherever it is played. During the COVID season managers would have set up as if the game was being played on a neutral ground, hence little difference. That year, I believe that different tactics by managers was the defining factor, not the lack of a crowd.I think we all agree that the crowd has an effect, we are just disagreeing as to the extent.1 -
I still think our total backing may prove crucial.
You’ve only got to read the post match thread to see “fans” already turning.6 -
Covered End said:I still think our total backing may prove crucial.
You’ve only got to read the post match thread to see “fans” already turning.The Nathan Out mob will get their pitch forks prepared, but he'll pull something out next month.If this loosing streak continues to the end of January, then the voices will turn.I thought the crowd tonight was very vocal in support of everyone and support the team well (despite the result).4 -
I wish our fans that went down to Fratton Park last night had cheered harder, then we wouldn’t have let in that second goal.11
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You pays your money, you takes your choice.If you want to cheer then do so. If you want to vent and boo, that’s your decision.1
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The support has been decent and we've been ponage so time to booooo these losers and see if we can get a different reaction0
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I get your point but I think that over a season it does make a difference. Perhaps with a crappier support they wouldn't have finished 4th that season. Perhaps they wouldn't have won their home leg.oohaahmortimer said:Pompey Leeds Wednesday Man City Sunderland would never have entered the third tier if support made a difference .
all the singing and fans in the world didn’t help Leeds in 1987 at St Andrews
Overall I think that the cheering and singing gives an extra 1% only, maybe 5% in extremity.
The big difference is booing / negative singing / abuse - it’s not a negative effect of 1-5%, more like 25%, maybe even 50% in the worst cases. West Ham are starting to slip to this - if they open up a 10+ point gap from safety then their home atmosphere will kill them off.4 -
I agree jimmymelrose - everytime I watch West Ham it feels like they are playing in a morgue and usually the ground is emptying from about 70 minutes onwards.
I feel this is detrimental to their chances of survival, but I seem to be in a minority.3 -
You're certainly not in a minority judging by the number of likes your posts get. Most of us just don't add to the obvious. So obviously proved by teams results and anybody who knows anything about human psychology. COYR.Covered End said:I agree jimmymelrose - everytime I watch West Ham it feels like they are playing in a morgue and usually the ground is emptying from about 70 minutes onwards.
I feel this is detrimental to their chances of survival, but I seem to be in a minority.2 -
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Thanks, I am seeing a lot of encouraging posts appearing on other threads as well, so let's hope my post is the thought provoker, to ensure that we CONTINUE to get behind the team & manager.redman said:
You're certainly not in a minority judging by the number of likes your posts get. Most of us just don't add to the obvious. So obviously proved by teams results and anybody who knows anything about human psychology. COYR.Covered End said:I agree jimmymelrose - everytime I watch West Ham it feels like they are playing in a morgue and usually the ground is emptying from about 70 minutes onwards.
I feel this is detrimental to their chances of survival, but I seem to be in a minority.
It's even clearer to me that they will need our support after yesterday.3 -
In terms of my own behaviours, I will always support the team. I think something would have to be extraordinarily wrong for me to boo - it may have happened in the past, but I can't remember it. That said, I'm not entirely convinced that crowds can make too much of a positive difference, at least, not on a prolonged basis.
Of all the motivation theories, the one that I think has the most explanatory power is Herzberg's differentiation between Motivational factors (those things that tend to have a positive correlation to someone's motivation levels) and Hygiene factors (those things that tend not to motivate per se, but whose absence below an acceptable level may demotivate). It seems to me that, other than for one-off occasions, having great support isn't going to be greatly motivating. It'll just become the norm; something to be expected. On the other hand, creating a toxic atmosphere is likely to be highly demotivating. For this reason, I will always be on the side of the happy clappers. Not because I believe it will produce great results, but because I feel it's the minimum that's required to keep the team ticking over.
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Stig, that's exactly what I meant, but maybe should have worded better.
I meant let's not start booing, jeering, slating players and turn The Valley toxic.6 -
Nooohaahmortimer said:The support has been decent and we've been ponage so time to booooo these losers and see if we can get a different reaction1 -
Makes all the difference. I'd suggest the most important factor for a professional footballer aside from the love of playing.Need to get behind them with vocal support. Turned it round last season , can do this similar this year.Nothing quite like VFR at full voice.0
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If by 'turned it round' you mean that our support improved during the season, I'd definitely agree. If you mean that by upping our support we changed the course of the season, I'd say that that's largely a case of the tail wagging the dog. We may have helped a little, but the determining factor in last season's change of fortunes was that Jones found a style of play, a steady line up and a set of tactics that suited us at the time. He needs to do the same now.fenlandaddick said:Makes all the difference. I'd suggest the most important factor for a professional footballer aside from the love of playing.Need to get behind them with vocal support. Turned it round last season , can do this similar this year.Nothing quite like VFR at full voice.5 -
Just like all the answers on here, it's subjective and a human reaction. In my view positive support can have an impact, but more so from the point of view of getting into the oppositions mind. Almost a siege mentality that says we will beat you and if the oppo arent "up for it" then the crowd aside a pumped up player can be an advantage.
But i do think the negative support can be really damaging, and again it's the fact we're all different. I will be honest, if i have a crap manager or beleive i am treated unfairly at work, i am more likely to go "fuck em then" , then think "i will prove them wrong". But I know others at work that think the opposite, show you're the best, prove you are indispensible, go that extra mile. And good for them it's just not how I tick. So there is a risk that slagging off in earshot a player, who let's face it is 100 times better than than fat bastards (me included) in the crowd, for not sticking it in top bins every shot just like on FIFA, will make him think " fuck em", or indeed " i dont want the ball now, i'm scared to make a mistake". We're not all Luke Littler (you pay my prize money so have that), some of us need a cuddle! So i would never boo/berate a player who is clearly trying but maybe a bit shit as it may well make him a bit shitter!
I'm off to do my self help session, drink a latte and watch loose women now as clearly a softie!3 -
I think negativity is more damaging than positivity has value. Of course there are times where it feels like we suck the ball into the net and we can help build momentum but some of that comes from the natural lulls. The problem with the negative stuff is it often comes in those lulls and so is easier for players to hear. That will fire some up but it’ll make others retract3
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I think crowd noise in many cases influences refereeing decisions in favour of the home team. I suspect we get more pens at the covered end than The Jimmy Seed end.
I'm sorry to go against the grain, but TC deserved some of the ht abuse after bottling that challenge v Boro. Shocking from a professional player.1 -
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Despite our bad run, I think the support is still decent and not turning toxic (yet) because most of this group of players do actually look like they give a shit (unlike countless others over recent decades) no matter how crap the football/results3
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The amount of late goals we score means we keep going to the end!boggzy said:Despite our bad run, I think the support is still decent and not turning toxic (yet) because most of this group of players do actually look like they give a shit (unlike countless others over recent decades) no matter how crap the football/results0 -
I think it's a good idea to remind us fans of what I suggested last month.4
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I think the players obviously appreciate playing in front of a noisy passionate crowd rather than a flat atmosphere.
But at the end of the day it's normally the best team that comes out on top regardless.
I remember Wimbledon playing in the top division when they hardly had any fans and much bigger clubs with a loud noisy fanbase getting relegated.4 -
The only fans who have turned are on here and they can’t attend as they too busy writing up how shit we are, at least Statler and Waldorf attended the theatre.boggzy said:Despite our bad run, I think the support is still decent and not turning toxic (yet) because most of this group of players do actually look like they give a shit (unlike countless others over recent decades) no matter how crap the football/results2 -
Quite. Let’s be honest, we won on Saturday because the opposition had two players sent off. The atmosphere (or lack thereof) had no real bearing on the outcome of the match.blackpool72 said:I think the players obviously appreciate playing in front of a noisy passionate crowd rather than a flat atmosphere.
But at the end of the day it's normally the best team that comes out on top regardless.
I remember Wimbledon playing in the top division when they hardly had any fans and much bigger clubs with a loud noisy fanbase getting relegated.
It’s a lovely idea that we, as fans, can significantly influence the outcome of the match positively. Of course we want our team to win so badly and we want to feel like we have a role to play in making it happen. But I’m surprised anyone over the age of 15 really thinks it’s true.3 -
It’s not the determining factor and is only a minor gain but in football(all sport today) everyone looks for every single percentile of advantage they can possibly gainblackpool72 said:I think the players obviously appreciate playing in front of a noisy passionate crowd rather than a flat atmosphere.
But at the end of the day it's normally the best team that comes out on top regardless.
I remember Wimbledon playing in the top division when they hardly had any fans and much bigger clubs with a loud noisy fanbase getting relegated.
its 98% about the quality / fitness/ bottle/ spirit of the team , management etc but support does maybe have a small % impact and in a season of fine margins (last time we were relegated with 5 seconds left on GD), the tiny gain that we might get from raucous support could help
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Nothing personal, but there’s been some nonsense spoken since Saturday but that is right up there.Bailey said:
The only fans who have turned are on here and they can’t attend as they too busy writing up how shit we are, at least Statler and Waldorf attended the theatre.boggzy said:Despite our bad run, I think the support is still decent and not turning toxic (yet) because most of this group of players do actually look like they give a shit (unlike countless others over recent decades) no matter how crap the football/resultsI spoke to about 8 different fans yesterday that were there or watched the stream, none of them post on here and every opening comment was a variation of the same: what a load of sh*t that was.
It was possible to be supportive yet also critical in analysis.7 -
I think it's right to reply AFKA, I have noticed a tendency on here for certain, not all admittedly, posters, who continue to put this club down and see this club as a verbal punchbag. When you find out that these people's only contact with the club is via the stream then it doesn't seem 'balanced', is probably the best way I can put it. I understand that people have a thousand reasons why they can’t attend, illness, distance, financial being just a few of those reasons. I think there is a tendency to be detached from the club and that makes it easier to level criticism, well quite simply I love Charlton, and I love all the aspects about the club, it has lots of problems and some things are certainly worth addressing and fixing. I find myself constantly defending the club, maybe its because of recent history, but we are in the Championship, we have 32 points and as Norman Barker stated, 'if you get a chance come down you might actually enjoy it.AFKABartram said:
Nothing personal, but there’s been some nonsense spoken since Saturday but that is right up there.Bailey said:
The only fans who have turned are on here and they can’t attend as they too busy writing up how shit we are, at least Statler and Waldorf attended the theatre.boggzy said:Despite our bad run, I think the support is still decent and not turning toxic (yet) because most of this group of players do actually look like they give a shit (unlike countless others over recent decades) no matter how crap the football/resultsI spoke to about 8 different fans that yesterday that were there or watched the stream, none of them post on here ands every opening comment was a variation of the same: what a load of sh*t thot was.
It was possible to be supportive yet also critical in analysis.8 -
It really surprises me how many people think this.se9addick said:Quite. Let’s be honest, we won on Saturday because the opposition had two players sent off. The atmosphere (or lack thereof) had no real bearing on the outcome of the match.
It’s a lovely idea that we, as fans, can significantly influence the outcome of the match positively. Of course we want our team to win so badly that and we want to feel like we have a role to play in making it happen. But I’m surprised anyone over the age of 15 really thinks it’s true.
The crowd without a doubt can have an influence on the players and therefore the outcome of the match to some degree. That doesn’t mean if I played alone vs Real Madrid that I’d win if my fans were louder though…
Confidence is a huge thing in sport. Yes, they’re elite sportsmen who should be supremely confident in themselves at all times on the pitch but we just know this isn’t the case. Unfortunately they are humans and things going on around them / being screamed at them will be impacting them whether that’s consciously or subconsciously for good or for bad.
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