After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45

DOUCHER said:

Just had a peak at that millwall site - the one with about 6 contributors - i've finally made it! - moody has created a profile of me on the charlton life thread - a dossier - a psychological profile - a genius at work there - its amusing but i do wonder whether social services should be contacted about this bloke in particular - he's deluded himself that i've been born with a silver spoon in my mouth and he's apparently a salt of the earth, purley king and queen builder type or something but infinitely more intelligent - right, but if he were that clever, would he call himself woodwork and spend all day on a rival football fans forum? i worry for him when the other 5 that post on that site admit they work in an office. He hates office workers and if he finds out millwall fans also work in them.. what happens  then? - You gotta have a look, its comedy gold - take a peak at the reason why no singing can be heard on telly at the den - there's some powerful medication being taken over there. Moody hangs on our every word so i'm sure he'll be pleased he's got a mention.  

Covered End said:

TootingRedArmy said:

You said I’m revelling “participating in lively and noisy festivities, especially involving drinking and dancing.” Well, I don’t drink! and the last time I danced was at a wedding under duress. What I am doing is pointing out (again) that Millwall fans attacked Charlton fans, woeful handling of this fixture before, during and after. And the Met Police? Copy, paste, repeat.

I’m sorry, but it’s impossible to see Millwall as anything but a hooligan club when the evidence has been on display for decades. I’ve seen it multi-times, i'm sure most Addicks have too.

Sure, @MillwallFan can chime in, but I’m not here for a lecture on the “virtues” of that fanbase and he doesn't like it when a Charlton fan points out the historical evidence & first hand accounts of of the "bushwackers" so his response is to be rude & throw a hissy. 

This thread still has legs unlike some of the Met Police after the last fixture. And it should, because no one should accept the same lazy policing or the same tired excuses next time we play Millwall.

Millwall Fan has been a well respected poster on here since 2013, which is longer than yourself and he doesn’t go on and on about the same one topic for weeks on end.
Leave him alone stop boring everyone to death thank you.

My Lord, I rise once more guilty as charged of posting on this most contentious subject.
But in my defence, I was merely presenting Exhibits A through Z: photos of the violence, social-media evidence, and the small novel of complaints about stewarding.

Now, the defence has introduced a “well-respected Millwall fan.”
Goodness me, My Lord......who might that be?
A first for the court, surely!
We may need to pause proceedings while the court stenographer recovers from the shock.

My Lord, while several of my learned Charlton Lifers assure me that @Millwall arrives with high regard, the moment I dared mention his club’s long, well-documented charge sheet of hooliganism, he turned rude and offensive. The court will note: classic Millwall defence strategy... deny everything, then throw a punch verbally or otherwise.

I would also like to submit a commendation, My Lord, for Lifer Prague, tireless in his cross-examinations and for CAST members, who voluntarily serve the fanbase with more dignity than half the matchday operation.

And so, My Lord, the proof will indeed be in the pudding:
Will the police finally adjust their policing for future Millwall fixtures?
Or shall we reconvene this court next season with the same exhibits, same arguments, and the same Millwall witnesses who miraculously “saw nothing, heard nothing, did nothing”?

I rest my case.......until the next incident gives me new evidence.

DOUCHER said:

TootingRedArmy said:

Covered End said:

TootingRedArmy said:

You said I’m revelling “participating in lively and noisy festivities, especially involving drinking and dancing.” Well, I don’t drink! and the last time I danced was at a wedding under duress. What I am doing is pointing out (again) that Millwall fans attacked Charlton fans, woeful handling of this fixture before, during and after. And the Met Police? Copy, paste, repeat.

I’m sorry, but it’s impossible to see Millwall as anything but a hooligan club when the evidence has been on display for decades. I’ve seen it multi-times, i'm sure most Addicks have too.

Sure, @MillwallFan can chime in, but I’m not here for a lecture on the “virtues” of that fanbase and he doesn't like it when a Charlton fan points out the historical evidence & first hand accounts of of the "bushwackers" so his response is to be rude & throw a hissy. 

This thread still has legs unlike some of the Met Police after the last fixture. And it should, because no one should accept the same lazy policing or the same tired excuses next time we play Millwall.

Millwall Fan has been a well respected poster on here since 2013, which is longer than yourself and he doesn’t go on and on about the same one topic for weeks on end.
Leave him alone stop boring everyone to death thank you.

My Lord, I rise once more guilty as charged of posting on this most contentious subject.
But in my defence, I was merely presenting Exhibits A through Z: photos of the violence, social-media evidence, and the small novel of complaints about stewarding.

Now, the defence has introduced a “well-respected Millwall fan.”
Goodness me, My Lord......who might that be?
A first for the court, surely!
We may need to pause proceedings while the court stenographer recovers from the shock.

My Lord, while several of my learned Charlton Lifers assure me that @Millwall arrives with high regard, the moment I dared mention his club’s long, well-documented charge sheet of hooliganism, he turned rude and offensive. The court will note: classic Millwall defence strategy... deny everything, then throw a punch verbally or otherwise.

I would also like to submit a commendation, My Lord, for Lifer Prague, tireless in his cross-examinations and for CAST members, who voluntarily serve the fanbase with more dignity than half the matchday operation.

And so, My Lord, the proof will indeed be in the pudding:
Will the police finally adjust their policing for future Millwall fixtures?
Or shall we reconvene this court next season with the same exhibits, same arguments, and the same Millwall witnesses who miraculously “saw nothing, heard nothing, did nothing”?

I rest my case.......until the next incident gives me new evidence.

Crack on Tooting - people don’t have to read your posts - the main thing is this nonsense of treating Millwall at our expense is stopped - Prague is doing a marvellous job even though many thought we / he was wasting his time and were willing to lay down and be shafted by the police again - Millwall fan has used your posts as a reason to disappear again - ignore him, they’ve turned shit again and he’s disappeared again - nothing more to it 

PragueAddick said:

Worth watching the clip of Len Duvall's exchange with Sir Mark Rowley (who declares himself a Villa fan). It starts at just before 02.48 in the video (@clive link above). It's my fault that Len leads off with the assertion that home fans were "held back" (although I wasn't the first one to mention the issue to him) and doubtless the local commander who now has to explain things to his boss, will make a great deal of that point. However, Rowley is, understandably, completely unaware of the issue, and he says, on camera, that he is surprised because his experience is "where there's separation, it's normally the other way round" (i.e. away fans kept back). That's quite a valuable admission from the Boss. Khan also confirms that it's his experience too, and he is equally unaware of a change to the normal practice. What Len doesn't say is that in all the cases he mentioned the away club is Millwall. That's understandable in that forum, but for sure that's what they will discuss behind the scenes. 

So I'm quite happy with that, especially as Len's assistant has indicated that he expects this to be a long discussion - this was just the opening shot. He's done well for us, because he's gone straight to the top, and got an important admission from Rowley that this wasn't normal (and he also connected it to "policing by consent' which had apparently been discussed as a principle earlier on other more weighty issues). The local police commander is going to have an uncomfortable report to write. At the very least, that's something the club will be able to remind him (or his successor) of, when they sit down to plan this fixture next season. So we might expect a little  less arrogance and a little more policing by consent.

PragueAddick said:

Worth watching the clip of Len Duvall's exchange with Sir Mark Rowley (who declares himself a Villa fan). It starts at just before 02.48 in the video (@clive link above). It's my fault that Len leads off with the assertion that home fans were "held back" (although I wasn't the first one to mention the issue to him) and doubtless the local commander who now has to explain things to his boss, will make a great deal of that point. However, Rowley is, understandably, completely unaware of the issue, and he says, on camera, that he is surprised because his experience is "where there's separation, it's normally the other way round" (i.e. away fans kept back). That's quite a valuable admission from the Boss. Khan also confirms that it's his experience too, and he is equally unaware of a change to the normal practice. What Len doesn't say is that in all the cases he mentioned the away club is Millwall. That's understandable in that forum, but for sure that's what they will discuss behind the scenes. 

So I'm quite happy with that, especially as Len's assistant has indicated that he expects this to be a long discussion - this was just the opening shot. He's done well for us, because he's gone straight to the top, and got an important admission from Rowley that this wasn't normal (and he also connected it to "policing by consent' which had apparently been discussed as a principle earlier on other more weighty issues). The local police commander is going to have an uncomfortable report to write. At the very least, that's something the club will be able to remind him (or his successor) of, when they sit down to plan this fixture next season. So we might expect a little  less arrogance and a little more policing by consent.

TootingRedArmy said:

Off_it said:

Headhunters? What would Chelsea be doing there?

who came up with these names...bushwackers...

Off_it said:

Lincoln Transit Elite

ken from bexley said:

Well done Richard, good to see that you followed up with the email to 'Len D' . As was seen in the video Rowley was ' not aware' and would be writing to 'Len D'. I see that they agreed that the matter needed 'better communication'. Not sure why Kahn, had to focus on the race aspect, as important as that issue is, that was not the question was it. ?. Any reply from the local MP as yet?.

I got the impression that the 'financial aspect' of policing outside the ground was mentioned, again the issue is what goes on inside, as was the case mentioned against Millwall. I got the impression that football clubs  should  'chip in' with more cash?.

Hopefully 'lesson's can be learnt?...... although when I brought this very question up several years ago, ( which I wrote about on here) at a fan's forum meeting, it seem's the club had forgotten that incident?. I guess changes in ownership and management  has not helped.?  
 


 

aliwibble said:

PragueAddick said:

Worth watching the clip of Len Duvall's exchange with Sir Mark Rowley (who declares himself a Villa fan). It starts at just before 02.48 in the video (@clive link above). It's my fault that Len leads off with the assertion that home fans were "held back" (although I wasn't the first one to mention the issue to him) and doubtless the local commander who now has to explain things to his boss, will make a great deal of that point. However, Rowley is, understandably, completely unaware of the issue, and he says, on camera, that he is surprised because his experience is "where there's separation, it's normally the other way round" (i.e. away fans kept back). That's quite a valuable admission from the Boss. Khan also confirms that it's his experience too, and he is equally unaware of a change to the normal practice. What Len doesn't say is that in all the cases he mentioned the away club is Millwall. That's understandable in that forum, but for sure that's what they will discuss behind the scenes. 

@PragueAddick I think you can argue that while our fans weren't officially held back in the ground, the gridlock on Harvey Gardens due to sending pretty much the entire ground that way was effectively the same thing, especially for those in the West Stand - see the photo in this post from @Off_it on p20 of this thread, where fans are backed up all the way up the West Stand stairs. In addition, those fans who had schlepped all the way around to the bottom of Charlton Church Lane were held back from accessing the station by the police for some time as per this photo on p7 of the Matchday Policing Thread. @swords_alive can you remember what time they let you up to the station?