Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Short & Long term strategies for Premier League promotions
jimmymelrose
Posts: 9,792
I personally think that getting into the play-offs this season is fanciful, but it has been mentioned by others on numerous occasions. Being that we are in The Championship now it is worth discussing, even if it’s with a view to next season and beyond.
As far as this season is concerned it’s possible if we get a bit of luck along the way, scrape 6th, and then win it somehow again. The question however is ’for what purpose?' To all those dreaming of promotion I’d like to ask ’Why would you want us to get promotion now?' ’What really would be your expectations’?
To have any chance at all you need to look to Sunderland. Carey may well be the best Championship signing this season but Granit Xhaka must be the best Premier League signing.
I don’t think we’d be spending that kind of money whatsoever though. If we got to the Premier League I’d expect us , even hope for us, to improve the team with a view to the next promotion, take relegation, and take the money and run. You may even need to do this twice before really having a chance of cementing a Premier League place at the third attempt.
That’s how I see the situation of Premier League finances these days. Does anyone really see it differently and how do you support your arguments?
2
Comments
-
You are right tbh, promotion for us would be a double edged sword as unlikely as it is. Yes of course we would all love the day out and the achievement but yeah we would more than likely come straight back down, one supposes the only hope is our owner would pump cash in at that point.jimmymelrose said:I personally think that getting into the play-offs this season is fanciful, but it has been mentioned by others on numerous occasions. Being that we are in The Championship now it is worth discussing, even if it’s with a view to next season and beyond.
As far as this season is concerned it’s possible if we get a bit of luck along the way, scrape 6th, and then win it somehow again. The question however is ’for what purpose?' To all those dreaming of promotion I’d like to ask ’Why would you want us to get promotion now?' ’What really would be your expectations’?
To have any chance at all you need to look to Sunderland. Carey may well be the best Championship signing this season but Granit Xhaka must be the best Premier League signing.
I don’t think we’d be spending that kind of money whatsoever though. If we got to the Premier League I’d expect us , even hope for us, to improve the team with a view to the next promotion, take relegation, and take the money and run. You may even need to do this twice before really having a chance of cementing a Premier League place at the third attempt.
That’s how I see the situation of Premier League finances these days. Does anyone really see it differently and how do you support your arguments?
2 -
getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeks1
-
The biggest issue faced by newly promoted sides is FFP, they need to spend loads to have any chance of staying up but then get hit with FFP sanctions because their revenue over the 5-year period included in FFP calcs will be miles less than it needs to be to spend the kind of money needed. Until something changes to close the gap between Champ and Prem finances we will continue to see more often than not all 3 promoted teams coming down - of course this absolutely suits the current established Prem teams so i don't hold out much hope of real change.2
-
If we get promoted use the money to buy the ground, not blow it on indifferent players on huge wages as Ipswich seem to have done.
Stick with the basic core squad, see how they do, and if relegated accept it because the Valley and Sparrows Lane will be back in house.
Maybe buy one or two players, and otherwise use any leftover money to invest in the Academy.12 -
Promotion to the Prem is worth at least £200m, even if you come straight back down. The standard strategies that are adopted are:1. Bet all the £100m in the first season on staying up, if that works spend all again in the second season thinking you've got it sussed. Then get relegated and face financial ruin unless you can bounce straight back.2. Spend 30-50% of the first season £100m - hope that's enough for survival but not a disaster if relegated as there would be a chance to bounce back, but not financial ruin if you don't as you've got £50m left from the relegation season plus two parachute payments. That can establish you as a very competitive Championship side with cash in the bank and the potential to get promotion back to the Prem in a couple of seasons, but that's not essential financially.3. Spend feck all, bank it all and come straight back down (Watford springs to mind).I would guess it's likely we would do 2 - but we are not going up this season!3
-
I'm not even thinking about promotion or anything like that but it is worth having a bit of a fun debate about.
Personally I wonder if we'd go for the Ipswich model which was basically a Championship All-stars side with players that you either sell at the end of the season for big money because they've proved themselves or give you a core to hopefully bounce back.
I'd be stunned if we did Model A from Bobs post , just feels too risky to spend that kind of money even if you've got it.0 -
We probably need to unearth and sell some players for silly money first. Then, reinvest wisely finding £5-10 million up and coming stars, funded by the £50m we get for someone. Some way to go yet.
0 -
Isn't this just a "Countdown to Pr*******" thread by any other name...🤦♂️0
-
We are miles off getting a play off place. Even to think about next season is crazy. However...
When we do (hopefully) have a team capable of winning promotion (even by the play off route), then our only hope is to take the money and spend it wisely. We need to grow as a club (as we did in the nineties) each season, so buying The Valley is the first exercise. Then get enough good players on sensible salaries so that when we do get relegated, you are good enough to bounce back immediately. In season three, start to think about adding to the good players you already have so that you have a chance of staying up, and also increase the capacity of The Valley. Never ever, burst FFP!0 -
To be fair that thread ended up working out quite well last season.eastterrace6168 said:Isn't this just a "Countdown to Pr*******" thread by any other name...🤦♂️
But it won't again... sink!!! :-)1 -
Sponsored links:
-
What is the price of NOT going up?
Your better players are picked off by other clubs.
Younger players are tempted away by offers from Cat 1/EPL teams.
Your coaching, academy and medical staff are lured away to higher/richer clubs.
We would be in stronger bargaining position than in previous years because we'd be a Championship club (I'm assuming we won't go down) and longer conteacts are in place so could hold out for bigger fees but we might still lose Ramsay, Fullah, Edwards, Coventry, Carey, etc.
I don't think we will make the play-offs but should I be wrong and we go up we should seize the opportunity, invest the money wisely in BOTH infrastructure and players, be prepared to struggle and go down (but not accept that as inevitable), stick with NJ regardless and see it as a step on the road ala 1998/99.
The mantra, so I'm told, from the Chairman is "Be Premier Ready" which makes sense although I think there is a lot of work to do in many aspects of the club especially on the administration and fan engagement side.4 -
Share the money around the squad to spend on fast cars and bitches. The lads will have deserved it.7
-
I want to see Charlton win every game they play, if that means that we end up in The Premier League I'll just have to put up with it.5
-
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.3 -
Might require things like improved dugouts, a lot of grounds have those nice bucket seats now - Although if that was something we had to install, you'd lose seats in the West Standstoneroses19 said:
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.1 -
Should we somehow get promoted to the Prem we should get our nice new owners to write us a new song and come and play it for us on the pitch. They could then write a statement that "we intend to breeze through this league and be ready to win the Champions League within five years.........."
and then I woke up and none if it was real thank God.......0 -
That's interesting and possibly not good for any season ticket holders in those areas, if it needed to happen.ForeverAddickted said:
Might require things like improved dugouts, a lot of grounds have those nice bucket seats now - Although if that was something we had to install, you'd lose seats in the West Standstoneroses19 said:
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.
As I had no idea, I checked on what Luton had to spend when promoted to premier league.They apparently spent £10m during the summer on rebuilding one stand, improving the broadcasting gantry, upgraded floodlights, and installing VAR.
I imagine majority of that £10m was rebuilding a stand, which we wouldn't need to. So if we did manage promotion, can't see us spending anywhere near that figure.4 -
I’m sure those who want a dog have already got one or two. Why would they want more?wolfgang said:Share the money around the squad to spend on fast cars and bitches. The lads will have deserved it.1 -
Absolutely not. I started it because I see some people getting carried away on post-match threads and wondered really what they expect. Apart from the club getting a windfall, I wouldn’t even want us to be playing in the league above. It would be boring to get stuffed every week and I look at Luton as being a more realistic outcome for us than Burnley. We just aren’t ready for the upheaval of promotion yet.eastterrace6168 said:Isn't this just a "Countdown to Pr*******" thread by any other name...🤦♂️
Oh, and f*** FFP. It has been introduced to protect those already in that league. If we’re ever going to get there I want us to beat it, and the only way imo is to grow and stabilise first as a club in The Championship.0 -
Definitely the dugouts, as they'll need to be larger AND equally spaced either side of the half way line. Indeed I'm amazed we got away with our unevenly located dugouts in the PL 20 years ago.ForeverAddickted said:
Might require things like improved dugouts, a lot of grounds have those nice bucket seats now - Although if that was something we had to install, you'd lose seats in the West Standstoneroses19 said:
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.
There will need to be a lot more media space, that's changed significantly since 20 years ago.
On the plus side, we've just upgraded the floodlights (which need to be brighter for VAR) so that's one thing which won't need to be done. Installing the VAR and goalline technology will be relatively easy.0 -
Sponsored links:
-
We already have the goal line technology1
-
killerandflash said:
Definitely the dugouts, as they'll need to be larger AND equally spaced either side of the half way line. Indeed I'm amazed we got away with our unevenly located dugouts in the PL 20 years ago.ForeverAddickted said:
Might require things like improved dugouts, a lot of grounds have those nice bucket seats now - Although if that was something we had to install, you'd lose seats in the West Standstoneroses19 said:
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.
There will need to be a lot more media space, that's changed significantly since 20 years ago.
On the plus side, we've just upgraded the floodlights (which need to be brighter for VAR) so that's one thing which won't need to be done. Installing the VAR and goalline technology will be relatively easy.Required Investments
1. Broadcast/media/technical upgrades: £1–£3 m(camera gantries, commentary boxes, broadcaster seats with power/data, fibre connectivity, 800‑lux floodlighting if needed)
2. Pitch/training/playing surface upgrades: £0.5–£1.5 m(under‑soil heating, drainage, VAR camera platforms, medical/referee facilities)
3. Safety/licensing/compliance (lower-end): £0.5 m(evacuation routes, turnstiles, CCTV, stewarding, disabled access)
Subtotal required: ~£2m–£5 m
Nice-to-Have Investments
Spectator/hospitality/concourse/toilets improvements: £2m–£5 m(hospitality boxes, premium seating, upgraded concourses, catering points, toilets, away fans facilities)May – August Timeline (Close-Season Window)
Month Investment Area Notes / Tasks May Pitch/training/playing surface upgrades Install under-soil heating, drainage improvements, VAR platforms, final pitch preparation. Priority #1.
May – June
Safety/licensing/compliance
CCTV, turnstiles, signage, minor evacuation/disabled access works. Can be done concurrently with pitch works.
June – July
Broadcast/media/technical
Install gantries, commentary boxes, broadcaster seats, cabling/fibre, upgrade floodlights if needed. May overlap with late pitch works.
July – mid-August
Nice-to-have: Spectator/hospitality/concourse/toilets improvements
Focus on essential areas only: toilets, catering points, hospitality suites. Work may need to be phased around stadium access for events or pre-season friendlies.
0 -
Not much for us to add is there? VAR cameras, goal line technology... That's it?Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeks
We already have the studio area for Sky (where we do Valley TV from) but even then they rarely do things on site now, most of it is from in house studios.
We already have an acceptable press area, TV gantry, maybe we need to make the dugouts bigger? But yeah not a huge amount of work surely, unless there's something I'm missing0 -
Thanks Chat GPT. Why didn’t you ask it why Selhurst still has wooden seats?Chizz said:killerandflash said:
Definitely the dugouts, as they'll need to be larger AND equally spaced either side of the half way line. Indeed I'm amazed we got away with our unevenly located dugouts in the PL 20 years ago.ForeverAddickted said:
Might require things like improved dugouts, a lot of grounds have those nice bucket seats now - Although if that was something we had to install, you'd lose seats in the West Standstoneroses19 said:
Im not clued up on what is expected of a Premier League ground these days.Rothko said:getting close to the window that if you're in a play off position, you get a visit from the Premier League to tell you what you need to do to The Valley to get it Premier League ready, and how you intend on getting I would guess, close to £20m worth of work done in 8 weeksWhat are the things required at The Valley costing £20m?
In my naive mind, that seems huge amount of money considering the likes of Luton ground was okay for PL.
There will need to be a lot more media space, that's changed significantly since 20 years ago.
On the plus side, we've just upgraded the floodlights (which need to be brighter for VAR) so that's one thing which won't need to be done. Installing the VAR and goalline technology will be relatively easy.Required Investments
1. Broadcast/media/technical upgrades: £1–£3 m(camera gantries, commentary boxes, broadcaster seats with power/data, fibre connectivity, 800‑lux floodlighting if needed)2. Pitch/training/playing surface upgrades: £0.5–£1.5 m(under‑soil heating, drainage, VAR camera platforms, medical/referee facilities)3. Safety/licensing/compliance (lower-end): £0.5 m(evacuation routes, turnstiles, CCTV, stewarding, disabled access)Subtotal required: ~£2m–£5 mNice-to-Have InvestmentsSpectator/hospitality/concourse/toilets improvements: £2m–£5 m(hospitality boxes, premium seating, upgraded concourses, catering points, toilets, away fans facilities)May – August Timeline (Close-Season Window)
Month Investment Area Notes / Tasks May Pitch/training/playing surface upgrades Install under-soil heating, drainage improvements, VAR platforms, final pitch preparation. Priority #1.
May – June
Safety/licensing/compliance
CCTV, turnstiles, signage, minor evacuation/disabled access works. Can be done concurrently with pitch works.
June – July
Broadcast/media/technical
Install gantries, commentary boxes, broadcaster seats, cabling/fibre, upgrade floodlights if needed. May overlap with late pitch works.
July – mid-August
Nice-to-have: Spectator/hospitality/concourse/toilets improvements
Focus on essential areas only: toilets, catering points, hospitality suites. Work may need to be phased around stadium access for events or pre-season friendlies.2 -
There is no IF about it... I know the three promoted sides are doing alright this season, compared to recent onesMilan said:
Couldn't agree more, that would be such a massive win, even if we got hammered back down again in the first season.jose said:If we get promoted use the money to buy the ground...
But my first target for the club would be to avoid the Derby points record0 -
Part of me is quite happy being a Championship team. The Premier League is everything that’s wrong with modern football.
5 -
I don't mean to be flippant jimmymelrose but part of the strategy needs to be to not to get carried away: i.e. I would not want promotion this season.jimmymelrose said:
Absolutely not. I started it because I see some people getting carried away on post-match threads and wondered really what they expect. Apart from the club getting a windfall, I wouldn’t even want us to be playing in the league above. It would be boring to get stuffed every week and I look at Luton as being a more realistic outcome for us than Burnley. We just aren’t ready for the upheaval of promotion yet.eastterrace6168 said:Isn't this just a "Countdown to Pr*******" thread by any other name...🤦♂️
Oh, and f*** FFP. It has been introduced to protect those already in that league. If we’re ever going to get there I want us to beat it, and the only way imo is to grow and stabilise first as a club in The Championship.
Other strategies include, short term: get a good and experienced replacement for Dr Abbott; medium term: get established in the Championship; long term: replicate the likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton (alliteration purely fortuitous).0 -
With VAR and how FFP works, I'm not even sure I'd want to get promoted to the PL. It's the Big Six Party—protected by the FFP—and dubious refereeing decisions, despite the presence of VAR.
Eugh. It was at least fun back when we were up there last time.
0 -
My guess is that at various times over the past few seasons fans of Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton, Palace, Forest and Sunderland have enjoyed things a lot, even if they knew that top 4-5 was beyond them.closet_addick said:With VAR and how FFP works, I'm not even sure I'd want to get promoted to the PL. It's the Big Six Party—protected by the FFP—and dubious refereeing decisions, despite the presence of VAR.
Eugh. It was at least fun back when we were up there last time.0
