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Tiered Membership Scheme Incoming?
Comments
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ElfsborgAddick said:fenaddick said:
A well run marketing/ticketing team would have the capacity to both fill those seats and look into a membership schemeAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters.
A winning football team fills seats.This x 1000Everything else is tinkering.1 -
and we had thousands of spectators that were there for prem games because they got to see prem games cheap, they even got to see their favourite teams cheap.Airman Brown said:
And yet the reason we were able to sell out less attractive games in the Premier League was because we went out and brought those extra people in, for example by bringing thousands of paying groups and individuals in by coach.Billy_Mix said:the major driver for attendances is onfield results
there ain't no marketing genius yet born who can influence those outcomes
last night soundly reinforced that discounted ticket prices do little to stimulate demand, or even mitigate midweek churn
For us Curbsiders it didn't look like Saturday's kidsforaquid had much impact on numbers
It took 3 seasons in PL from 2001 to 2003 for Charlton to effectively sell out home league games
The uncomfortable truth for owners and fans alike may be that in this division, the ceiling on sustained demand for tickets is no higher than 20000
Increasing ticket revenue would seem therefore to rely on inflated pricing.
From 33 years of attending the Valley I'd venture that demand will prove to be highly price sensitive
Rinsing the established supporter base could go very wrong very quickly
The optimist in me takes heart from the obvious expansion of commercial revenue opportunities around the ground on matchday - all those illuminated hoardings are being paid for by somebody, I counted 10 mascots on Saturday - I've no idea what dent those streams make in the operating loss but the direction of travel looks to be positive.
A theme a certain Westminster bean counter should be embracing - the broadest shoulders will better carry a greater burden than the already overladen masses, overcharging the regulars would be a terrible, not to say counterproductive, choice.
Of course results, status, opposition, weather, timing etc all contribute to the mix. But the idea you can't affect crowds and increase revenue by interventions with circa 6,000 empty seats is just wrong. We know because we did it, in this division and the one above.
I do agree that Kid for a Quid and the minor price reductions for an evening game didn't and won't achieve anything, but that doesn't mean that nothing can ever make a difference.
Actually our attendances have been pretty good in the circumstances, but they can still be better.0 -
Off_it said:
What??? Valley Gold members get priority tickets? When did they introduce that? That's gone under the radar a bit hasn't it?cafcfan said:
That's about right. (Although, of course many people feature in maybe two or three of those tiers.)sam3110 said:Surely there's already a tier system in place, just not by name?
You have people who have boxes
You have people who do hospitality regularly
You have season ticket holders
You have Valley Gold members
You have people who buy tickets in advance
You have people who buy tickets on the day
You can add names to each thing and give it a "Tier" but it won't actually change much
But at the moment using your list, the people in tier 4 (Valley Gold) get priority for away ticket purchases by donating £120 a year, whereas the top two tiers get feck all for spending over £3k a year.
How many Away games how you been to in the past two seasons1 -
CAFCBill said:What membership tier gets me a hot water option when washing my hands?They still need to fix the taps in the West Stand0
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fenaddick said:
A winning football team fills *some* seats. Realistically we are in the best position we’ve been for over a decade and there are still plenty of empty seats.ElfsborgAddick said:fenaddick said:
A well run marketing/ticketing team would have the capacity to both fill those seats and look into a membership schemeAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters.
A winning football team fills seats.As pointed out by the Brummies and Tractor Lads
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Indeed, but that wasn't much of a factor when we brought thousands in to buy tickets for Wigan, Blackburn, etc. Ten and 20 years later, I still meet people in East Kent who became Charlton supporters because we made it easy and affordable for them to get there. The club hasn't been able to do that in League One, but it is possible in the Championship. Instead it is running Valley Express at maybe a third of its potential and congratulating itself on covering coach hire costs with fares. The easiest way to do that is not to run it all, but that wouldn't be sensible either.msomerton said:
and we had thousands of spectators that were there for prem games because they got to see prem games cheap, they even got to see their favourite teams cheap.Airman Brown said:
And yet the reason we were able to sell out less attractive games in the Premier League was because we went out and brought those extra people in, for example by bringing thousands of paying groups and individuals in by coach.Billy_Mix said:the major driver for attendances is onfield results
there ain't no marketing genius yet born who can influence those outcomes
last night soundly reinforced that discounted ticket prices do little to stimulate demand, or even mitigate midweek churn
For us Curbsiders it didn't look like Saturday's kidsforaquid had much impact on numbers
It took 3 seasons in PL from 2001 to 2003 for Charlton to effectively sell out home league games
The uncomfortable truth for owners and fans alike may be that in this division, the ceiling on sustained demand for tickets is no higher than 20000
Increasing ticket revenue would seem therefore to rely on inflated pricing.
From 33 years of attending the Valley I'd venture that demand will prove to be highly price sensitive
Rinsing the established supporter base could go very wrong very quickly
The optimist in me takes heart from the obvious expansion of commercial revenue opportunities around the ground on matchday - all those illuminated hoardings are being paid for by somebody, I counted 10 mascots on Saturday - I've no idea what dent those streams make in the operating loss but the direction of travel looks to be positive.
A theme a certain Westminster bean counter should be embracing - the broadest shoulders will better carry a greater burden than the already overladen masses, overcharging the regulars would be a terrible, not to say counterproductive, choice.
Of course results, status, opposition, weather, timing etc all contribute to the mix. But the idea you can't affect crowds and increase revenue by interventions with circa 6,000 empty seats is just wrong. We know because we did it, in this division and the one above.
I do agree that Kid for a Quid and the minor price reductions for an evening game didn't and won't achieve anything, but that doesn't mean that nothing can ever make a difference.
Actually our attendances have been pretty good in the circumstances, but they can still be better.1 -
It’s almost as if it’s expensive to go to football these days -even more so if you want to take your kids/ family members. ☹️Airman Brown said:
It was probably more like 14,000-15,000 with the usual missing season-ticket holders. Maybe more would have come. I think there is a massive problem with Tuesday nights, particularly with live TV. They are a relatively unattractive proposition if you're not local. Home match ticket sale will probably have been half the Saturday matches.Rothko said:Suspect the gate last night would have been closer to 20k then 17k if the game had been last week during half term, then this week
If many people who have already paid won't come, it's bound to be hard to sell tickets.Kids for a quid was for under 11 I think - that’s a poor cut off age too.Not sure there was much discount if any for an adult ?
Scrap the gold silver bronze nonsense and instead do deals like but for Saturday get Tuesday at half price or get three Saturdays for the price if 2. If you’ve already paid you are more likely to attend.1 -
And how many times do you think they should do that?valleynick66 said:Airman Brown said:
It was probably more like 14,000-15,000 with the usual missing season-ticket holders. Maybe more would have come. I think there is a massive problem with Tuesday nights, particularly with live TV. They are a relatively unattractive proposition if you're not local. Home match ticket sale will probably have been half the Saturday matches.Rothko said:Suspect the gate last night would have been closer to 20k then 17k if the game had been last week during half term, then this week
If many people who have already paid won't come, it's bound to be hard to sell tickets.
Scrap the gold silver bronze nonsense and instead do deals like but for Saturday get Tuesday at half price or get three Saturdays for the price if 2. If you’ve already paid you are more likely to attend.
Do it too often and you're both annoying season ticket holders, since our season tickets lose value, and discouraging fans who don't have season tickets from buying them in the first place.
While there was great value in season tickets in the cheaper seats, if you bought one early enough, there was little incentive to buy one for the most expensive seats early (other than retaining your seat).1 -
If we are trying to get people back or there for the first time you need to incentivise.AS1987 said:
And how many times do you think they should do that?valleynick66 said:Airman Brown said:
It was probably more like 14,000-15,000 with the usual missing season-ticket holders. Maybe more would have come. I think there is a massive problem with Tuesday nights, particularly with live TV. They are a relatively unattractive proposition if you're not local. Home match ticket sale will probably have been half the Saturday matches.Rothko said:Suspect the gate last night would have been closer to 20k then 17k if the game had been last week during half term, then this week
If many people who have already paid won't come, it's bound to be hard to sell tickets.
Scrap the gold silver bronze nonsense and instead do deals like but for Saturday get Tuesday at half price or get three Saturdays for the price if 2. If you’ve already paid you are more likely to attend.
Do it too often and you're both annoying season ticket holders, since our season tickets lose value, and discouraging fans who don't have season tickets from buying them in the first place.
While there was great value in season tickets in the cheaper seats, if you bought one early enough, there was little incentive to buy one for the most expensive seats early (other than retaining your seat).A ‘multi’ buy offer makes most sense to me.I will keep saying it however the price is too high relative to alternative spend. People make choices and a costly ticket on a cold wet night is poor value.1 -
Totally agree. The trouble is you can never prove the counter factual.valleynick66 said:
If we are trying to get people back or there for the first time you need to incentivise.AS1987 said:
And how many times do you think they should do that?valleynick66 said:Airman Brown said:
It was probably more like 14,000-15,000 with the usual missing season-ticket holders. Maybe more would have come. I think there is a massive problem with Tuesday nights, particularly with live TV. They are a relatively unattractive proposition if you're not local. Home match ticket sale will probably have been half the Saturday matches.Rothko said:Suspect the gate last night would have been closer to 20k then 17k if the game had been last week during half term, then this week
If many people who have already paid won't come, it's bound to be hard to sell tickets.
Scrap the gold silver bronze nonsense and instead do deals like but for Saturday get Tuesday at half price or get three Saturdays for the price if 2. If you’ve already paid you are more likely to attend.
Do it too often and you're both annoying season ticket holders, since our season tickets lose value, and discouraging fans who don't have season tickets from buying them in the first place.
While there was great value in season tickets in the cheaper seats, if you bought one early enough, there was little incentive to buy one for the most expensive seats early (other than retaining your seat).A ‘multi’ buy offer makes most sense to me.I will keep saying it however the price is too high relative to alternative spend. People make choices and a costly ticket on a cold wet night is poor value.0 -
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The problem with midweek games at the valley is getting there for fans that don’t live in the area. The Valley will hopefully always be our home but I must admit it is an absolute pain in the arse to get to and home from in an acceptable timeframe when people have work to think ofAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters. That in turn will make it more difficult to fill those seats.
Late night’s attendance was easily the worst for home supporters this season, despite lower prices. This was inevitable, but shows you cannot price people into evening games*, which most of us already know.* you probably could do something but you’d have to be a lot more ambitious than the pricing last night.0 -
Got to say I think there is a lot more to it than pricing and volumes and tiered schemes. Logistically, getting to The Valley has become increasingly difficult for many of our supporters. It’s not helped with the nonsense from the council and the road works that’ll continue until at least the end of next season. Add in the lack of viable, decent parking options on top of a poorly managed TFL and trains.
It’s a real challenge for the club to find ways of getting enough people through the door that won’t mean they need to spend a whole load of money to do it meaning the revenue brought in from the extra supporters isn’t necessarily felt in the same impact they’d be looking for.
In saying that, I do feel that a potential park and ride option could be explored or to really build relationships with local business to allow supporters access to park securely would help.
We are though seeing regularly 20k+ on a Saturday and that’s a long way from where we were just 12-18 months ago.
Definitely room for improvement, I just feel there is so much more to it than the surface level that’s often explored.1 -
It’s complicated because you don’t want to eat your existing revenue, which is a risk, but the average net spend at the ground will always outweigh any subsidy required to get people there. As long as you have empty seats to fill it is a sound investment.Sage said:Got to say I think there is a lot more to it than pricing and volumes and tiered schemes. Logistically, getting to The Valley has become increasingly difficult for many of our supporters. It’s not helped with the nonsense from the council and the road works that’ll continue until at least the end of next season. Add in the lack of viable, decent parking options on top of a poorly managed TFL and trains.
It’s a real challenge for the club to find ways of getting enough people through the door that won’t mean they need to spend a whole load of money to do it meaning the revenue brought in from the extra supporters isn’t necessarily felt in the same impact they’d be looking for.
In saying that, I do feel that a potential park and ride option could be explored or to really build relationships with local business to allow supporters access to park securely would help.
We are though seeing regularly 20k+ on a Saturday and that’s a long way from where we were just 12-18 months ago.
Definitely room for improvement, I just feel there is so much more to it than the surface level that’s often explored.The club’s view, which I have seen in writing, is that there is no need to act as they can sell all the seats without doing anything like that. To which my response is, if you can then fine, but you’re not, are you? I don’t think you will. And I don’t think you understand what will happen if the on-street parking is eliminated.1 -
The club would be absolutely crazy not to do all they can to try sort out some kind of parking or deal with the council and/or local business. More and more people are now taking the car to get to the game, myself included when I used to get the train all the time. Reason being, life changes dictate and if parking in and around the area is eliminated without the club acting in a significant way, attendances will fall dramatically and won’t change no matter what schemes and prices they adopt in future.Airman Brown said:
It’s complicated because you don’t want to eat your existing revenue, which is a risk, but the average net spend at the ground will always outweigh any subsidy required to get people there. As long as you have empty seats to fill it is a sound investment.Sage said:Got to say I think there is a lot more to it than pricing and volumes and tiered schemes. Logistically, getting to The Valley has become increasingly difficult for many of our supporters. It’s not helped with the nonsense from the council and the road works that’ll continue until at least the end of next season. Add in the lack of viable, decent parking options on top of a poorly managed TFL and trains.
It’s a real challenge for the club to find ways of getting enough people through the door that won’t mean they need to spend a whole load of money to do it meaning the revenue brought in from the extra supporters isn’t necessarily felt in the same impact they’d be looking for.
In saying that, I do feel that a potential park and ride option could be explored or to really build relationships with local business to allow supporters access to park securely would help.
We are though seeing regularly 20k+ on a Saturday and that’s a long way from where we were just 12-18 months ago.
Definitely room for improvement, I just feel there is so much more to it than the surface level that’s often explored.The club’s view, which I have seen in writing, is that there is no need to act as they can sell all the seats without doing anything like that. To which my response is, if you can then fine, but you’re not, are you? I don’t think you will. And I don’t think you understand what will happen if the on-street parking is eliminated.1 -
When I think of grounds that are a pain the arse to get to, I immediately think of places like Wycombe, Yeovil, Forest Green with their total lack of any sort of decent transport links or nearby places to park.AndyG said:
The problem with midweek games at the valley is getting there for fans that don’t live in the area. The Valley will hopefully always be our home but I must admit it is an absolute pain in the arse to get to and home from in an acceptable timeframe when people have work to think ofAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters. That in turn will make it more difficult to fill those seats.
Late night’s attendance was easily the worst for home supporters this season, despite lower prices. This was inevitable, but shows you cannot price people into evening games*, which most of us already know.* you probably could do something but you’d have to be a lot more ambitious than the pricing last night.
Can't think of the Valley in those terms, despite the recent restrictions, supporters still have lots of options to get there4 -
Charlton midweek home games under the Floodlights have been in place for over 60 years. If people have moved away from the local area for their own lifestyle choices, then it will be a pain in the arse for them to make those fixtures if they have to be up early next morning.AndyG said:
The problem with midweek games at the valley is getting there for fans that don’t live in the area. The Valley will hopefully always be our home but I must admit it is an absolute pain in the arse to get to and home from in an acceptable timeframe when people have work to think ofAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters. That in turn will make it more difficult to fill those seats.
Late night’s attendance was easily the worst for home supporters this season, despite lower prices. This was inevitable, but shows you cannot price people into evening games*, which most of us already know.* you probably could do something but you’d have to be a lot more ambitious than the pricing last night.
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It really depends where you come from. As I’ve always said, there is good public transport, better than ever, but most of it doesn’t fit very well with where our fanbase lives. The DLR, the Elizabeth Line and the Jubilee Line don’t really add much between them. The trains are OK if you live on the North Kent line or travel into London, but it’s two hours plus to parts of Kent when you can drive in an hour.JohnnyH2 said:
When I think of grounds that are a pain the arse to get to, I immediately think of places like Wycombe, Yeovil, Forest Green with their total lack of any sort of decent transport links or nearby places to park.AndyG said:
The problem with midweek games at the valley is getting there for fans that don’t live in the area. The Valley will hopefully always be our home but I must admit it is an absolute pain in the arse to get to and home from in an acceptable timeframe when people have work to think ofAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters. That in turn will make it more difficult to fill those seats.
Late night’s attendance was easily the worst for home supporters this season, despite lower prices. This was inevitable, but shows you cannot price people into evening games*, which most of us already know.* you probably could do something but you’d have to be a lot more ambitious than the pricing last night.
Can't think of the Valley in those terms, despite the recent restrictions, supporters still have lots of options to get there0 -
I see what you are sayingshirty5 said:
Charlton midweek home games under the Floodlights have been in place for over 60 years. If people have moved away from the local area for their own lifestyle choices, then it will be a pain in the arse for them to make those fixtures if they have to be up early next morning.AndyG said:
The problem with midweek games at the valley is getting there for fans that don’t live in the area. The Valley will hopefully always be our home but I must admit it is an absolute pain in the arse to get to and home from in an acceptable timeframe when people have work to think ofAirman Brown said:We have circa 6.000 empty seats. That should be the priority for increasing revenue - of course it won’t be because that would require more work than jacking up the cost to established supporters. That in turn will make it more difficult to fill those seats.
Late night’s attendance was easily the worst for home supporters this season, despite lower prices. This was inevitable, but shows you cannot price people into evening games*, which most of us already know.* you probably could do something but you’d have to be a lot more ambitious than the pricing last night.
I haven't moved and midweek games are pretty much off the table now unless I'm off work the next day. My situation hasnt changed but the situation around getting to the games has. Mainly parking as mid-week games were never really an option on the train for me.
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