Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
++Charlie Kelman signs on a 4 year deal++
Comments
-
Took that to mean you don’t rate Kelman, apologies if that’s not what was meant.ElfsborgAddick said:Sword65pf said:
🎣ElfsborgAddick said:DamoNorthStand said:With regards Kelman, if Godden can finally come back at any point soon then we can be much more relaxed about this.It's not as if Kelman is going to be much of a miss.
?0 -
Sword65pf said:
Took that to mean you don’t rate Kelman, apologies if that’s not what was meant.ElfsborgAddick said:Sword65pf said:
🎣ElfsborgAddick said:DamoNorthStand said:With regards Kelman, if Godden can finally come back at any point soon then we can be much more relaxed about this.It's not as if Kelman is going to be much of a miss.
?Aha, my failing eyesight does not make out the emoji.No need to apologise, as it happens I am not too sure that he's going to be a success with us, I hope I am wrong.0 -
I hope you are wrong also, I think we need patience with him, again sorry I was being a touch sarcastic thinking you were fishing for comment.👍ElfsborgAddick said:Sword65pf said:
Took that to mean you don’t rate Kelman, apologies if that’s not what was meant.ElfsborgAddick said:Sword65pf said:
🎣ElfsborgAddick said:DamoNorthStand said:With regards Kelman, if Godden can finally come back at any point soon then we can be much more relaxed about this.It's not as if Kelman is going to be much of a miss.
?Aha, my failing eyesight does not make out the emoji.No need to apologise, as it happens I am not too sure that he's going to be a success with us, I hope I am wrong.1 -
Some one not in the know ( I would imagine) and not generally a gossiper, told me last night he was out for several months.0
-
Would be contrary to what NJ said in his post-match press conference. His comment suggested it was something more minor and that he was left out as more of a precaution. NJ is a bit cloak and dagger sometimes when discussing injuries though.1
-
We can't recall either of them until 1st January.mendonca said:Need to ease Godden back in. Wonder if we will go for a loan signing or look to recall one of Kanu or Mbick. NJ favours the double substitutions with the forward line to keep up the intensity.
Them's the rules, don't ya know?
0 -
Yeah, it's pretty clear we can only get a loan in the same transfer window as recalling our own player from a loan.Oggy Red said:
We can't recall either of them until 1st January.mendonca said:Need to ease Godden back in. Wonder if we will go for a loan signing or look to recall one of Kanu or Mbick. NJ favours the double substitutions with the forward line to keep up the intensity.
Them's the rules, don't ya know?0 -
One thing this has shown is how important this man is to the system we play11
-
You’ll get LOL’d for this but we’re sorely missing his press up front.mascot88 said:One thing this has shown is how important this man is to the system we play7 -
Sponsored links:
-
Not sure playing Kelman would have stopped us shipping 8 goals in 2 gamesmascot88 said:One thing this has shown is how important this man is to the system we play2 -
We press from the front, and Kelman from those fit at the start of the season is probably one of the best to do that... Pre-Leicester, Sky Sports even did a bit of coverage on the way we play with him troubling Defenders... TC too when he's alongside him.
The Derby game was a great example of that, our Strikers (and Carey) press their back line, force them into rushed clearances, meaning there is a greater chance that the ball will end up with a Charlton man - Those three came off, the pressure was eased on their Defence, allowing them to pick their targets easier.
Leaburn / Olaofe didn't put in the running in those games when they came on to give Kelman / TC a break, and they're not doing it now - Whats worse is we're not even really seeing it from TC either at the moment.1 -
Scores then gets injured. Disappointing as we really need a proper goalscorer.2
-
Please god, get Kelman back in the team1
-
In this run of 4 games that Kelman has missed we've scored just twice - Carey in injury time against WBA and Jones' consolation goal against Southampton. Kelman received a lot of stick for not scoring with some claiming that our other forwards would do better. That hasn't happened and it's obvious that we simply do not play the type of expansive football likely to create enough chances for our forwards to thrive on hence why none of them have scored more than once. We are a "smash and grab" side in the main.
It is also difficult to argue now that there isn't some sort of correlation between the state of a game after an hour when Kelman has started and when he hasn't.
Position of each game at the 60 minute mark when Kelman has started:
Games - 10
Winning - 6
Drawing - 4
Losing - 0
Goals scored - 8
Goals conceded - 0
Position of each game at the 60 minute mark when Kelman hasn't started:
Games - 7
Winning - 0
Drawing - 3
Losing - 4
Goals scored - 1
Goals conceded - 10
12 -
We definitely miss him.6
-
Orient fans haven't stopped raving about the way he pressed last season .... he's run around a bit for us ... punchless0
-
But then who in our team actually creates chances? It's not as if our other forwards have been missing two or three open goals each and every game. Killer would struggle in this side the way we set up. Who are our Powell, Peacock or Robinson providing the crosses for him to get on the end of, who is our Flanagan or Horsfield to flick the ball on for him and who is our Tydeman capable of threading a ball between the opposition CBs?oohaahmortimer said:Orient fans haven't stopped raving about the way he pressed last season .... he's run around a bit for us ... punchless
Coventry have only conceded 3 goals less than us but have scored 30 more. They play on the front foot because they have so many inventive players. We don't and our gameplan is first not to concede and then to rely on set pieces and the counter for our goals. The fact that we've had 9 shots on target in total in the 4 games that Kelman has missed when Coventry have had 30 from the same number of matches says it all.
All of that said, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't snatch a 1-0 win on Saturday for the reasons I've said. You heard it here first.3 -
We won’t snatch a 0-1 at Coventry
and Kelman will not alter our season with his running around
We have as much creativity as last season twas ever thus
Godden needed more than Kelman imo0 -
Don't be harsh. Apparently it's good to have a striker who has only scored one goal this season as he's responsible for our defensive record when playing.oohaahmortimer said:Orient fans haven't stopped raving about the way he pressed last season .... he's run around a bit for us ... punchless4 -
Sponsored links:
-
The stats would suggest that Kelman has already altered our season, or are the results without him just a coincidence?oohaahmortimer said:We won’t snatch a 0-1 at Coventry
and Kelman will not alter our season with his running around
We have as much creativity as last season twas ever thus
Godden needed more than Kelman imo
0 -
His performances have been pretty duff and the quality of our defensive set up and oppo as well have a lot more saying than the running around he did , it’s desperate trying to claim he’s the difference .Stu_of_Kunming said:
The stats would suggest that Kelman has already altered our season, or are the results without him just a coincidence?oohaahmortimer said:We won’t snatch a 0-1 at Coventry
and Kelman will not alter our season with his running around
We have as much creativity as last season twas ever thus
Godden needed more than Kelman imoWe were drawing with Watford he came off we won
we were drawing with b city he came off we drew
We were drawing drawing with Leicester when he came on and lost
we were drawing with qpr when he came on and we lost
We were 1-0 up v the scum when he came off , player sent off and we drew
We were drawing with Sheff Utd he came off we won
We were 1-0 up v Blackburn he came off we won 3-0
We were 1-0 up at Derby he came off we drew
We were losing 1-0 at Preston he came off we lost 2-0
We were 2-0 up v Sheff Wed he came off we won 2-1
We were 2-0 up v Ipswich when he came off we won 3-0
We were losing 1-0 at Hull when he came on we drew
We were drawing with Swansea , he scored our goal, came off and we drew
1 goal and no asssits I think , i would say he’s been much of a muchness
he’s pulled out of a couple of 60-40’s as well , a beautiful class involvement at Derby and a proper bottle job half hearted attempt at closing down and challenging the keeper in the same game , he also hit a rasper there and at Ipswich good strikes but the keepers would have been at fault and gutted to be beaten by them .
i deffo wouldn’t call him a dud yet but he’s not the saviour either, jury deffo out atm on himHe’s positional play hasn’t been brilliant and I think even NJ mentioned this at one point .
we’ve had balls pulled back hit across the box etc and he’s not shown the poachers instinct yet .2 -
The point I've been trying to make is twofold - Kelman has been starting because he does stretch defences more than our other forwards and "softens them up" for the "game changers". We've been scapegoating him for not scoring when we do not play the sort of football that forwards thrive on.oohaahmortimer said:
His performances have been pretty duff and the quality of our defensive set up and oppo as well have a lot more saying than the running around he did , it’s desperate trying to claim he’s the difference .Stu_of_Kunming said:
The stats would suggest that Kelman has already altered our season, or are the results without him just a coincidence?oohaahmortimer said:We won’t snatch a 0-1 at Coventry
and Kelman will not alter our season with his running around
We have as much creativity as last season twas ever thus
Godden needed more than Kelman imoWe were drawing with Watford he came off we won
we were drawing with b city he came off we drew
We were drawing drawing with Leicester when he came on and lost
we were drawing with qpr when he came on and we lost
We were 1-0 up v the scum when he came off , player sent off and we drew
We were drawing with Sheff Utd he came off we won
We were 1-0 up v Blackburn he came off we won 3-0
We were 1-0 up at Derby he came off we drew
We were losing 1-0 at Preston he came off we lost 2-0
We were 2-0 up v Sheff Wed he came off we won 2-1
We were 2-0 up v Ipswich when he came off we won 3-0
We were losing 1-0 at Hull when he came on we drew
We were drawing with Swansea , he scored our goal, came off and we drew
1 goal and no asssits I think , i would say he’s been much of a muchness
he’s pulled out of a couple of 60-40’s as well , a beautiful class involvement at Derby and a proper bottle job half hearted attempt at closing down and challenging the keeper in the same game , he also hit a rasper there and at Ipswich good strikes but the keepers would have been at fault and gutted to be beaten by them .
i deffo wouldn’t call him a dud yet but he’s not the saviour either, jury deffo out atm on himHe’s positional play hasn’t been brilliant and I think even NJ mentioned this at one point .
we’ve had balls pulled back hit across the box etc and he’s not shown the poachers instinct yet .
To say Godden would have done better is unproven too. If that were the case, why didn't he do so much better than Kelman last season in what was a better side than Orient. Ignoring penalties, Godden scored one goal every 168 minutes and Kelman scored every 169.7 minutes. Godden was two years younger when he last played in the Championship and scored 6 goals in 35 appearances for a side that scored 70 goals that season. Kelman was the top scorer last season, again ignoring penalties, for all of the 92 clubs. You do not do that without knowing where the goal is.
9 shots on target in the 4 games Kelman's missed and 2 goals scored says that we are certainly no better without him than we are with him. Or probably Godden either. We do not have the creativity at this level and do not throw players forward to do that. It's safety and a clean sheet first stuff. That's not knocking NJ but it is the way we are set up at this level because we don't want to be relegated. That's not Kelman's fault.
3 -
I know who I'd prefer to be playing for us right here now and this season and it's a fully fit Godden.
Last season Orient played a more fluid game than us and Godden was the perfect man who can hold the ball up well for us last year .
This Kelman waffle re running around a lot is just that , he has been utter pony for us so far no matter what way it's dressed up , as have the rest of our front line but he may be the worst of the lot , so far
0 -
Team stats are not a marker for individual performance.1
-
Any update on his absence? Would be good to get an update on godden too. Desperately in need of some kind of danger man up front.The problem with playing a system like Nathan jones does is that when one part is weak (at this point left wing back and up front) the whole thing falls apart quite spectacularly.1
-
They can be. If one was to take that to its nth degree then, effectively, we would have to say that Haaland's performances haven't contributed to City's stats. No one else in the PL for City has scored more than a single goal and it is because of his 14 goals that they have the number of points they have. But then he has a supply of chances made by some world class creative players. Those are individual performances too. We've got a lot of ball carriers but not a lot of inventiveness.Chunes said:Team stats are not a marker for individual performance.
I repeat, 9 shots on target in total in the last 4 matches. That's a team stat and is directly, if not wholly, linked to the performance of individuals. Be that the creators or opportunity takers.
Equally, the chances are that had Edwards been playing in the last couple of games, his individual performance would have, almost certainly meant that we would not have had that team stat of conceding 8 goals in 2 games - we let in 5 goals in the 7 matches he played in and picked up 4 clean sheets and 11 points in the process.
0 -
He might only have one goal in 13 appearances but we've been measurably worse without him
Nothing sticks up front when he's absent
He must have been doing lots more of the hard, dirty unglamorous stuff than any of the bods used since he's been out.
Not going to be the headline on his CV 🤣 rather an indictment of the others0 -
I'm sure we are not going to agree on this, which is fine, but Haaland's goals are individual outputs. That's why we can link them to points. "City wins more with Haaland" isn't the proof... "Haaland scores a high share of their goals" is.Addick Addict said:
They can be. If one was to take that to its nth degree then, effectively, we would have to say that Haaland's performances haven't contributed to City's stats. No one else in the PL for City has scored more than a single goal and it is because of his 14 goals that they have the number of points they have. But then he has a supply of chances made by some world class creative players. Those are individual performances too. We've got a lot of ball carriers but not a lot of inventiveness.Chunes said:Team stats are not a marker for individual performance.
I repeat, 9 shots on target in total in the last 4 matches. That's a team stat and is directly, if not wholly, linked to the performance of individuals. Be that the creators or opportunity takers.
Equally, the chances are that had Edwards been playing in the last couple of games, his individual performance would have, almost certainly meant that we would not have had that team stat of conceding 8 goals in 2 games - we let in 5 goals in the 7 matches he played in and picked up 4 clean sheets and 11 points in the process.
If it was 0-0 yesterday and Kaminski dropped the ball into his net, how does that reflect on Kelman, Burke or whoever else isn't playing? But you could easily use that result in a team stat argument to say we lose without them.
I don't think any recruitment department judges a player on the team’s win or loss record when he’s on the pitch because it tells you nothing about their contribution.
0 -
I'm not saying that each and every goal conceded is down to someone's direct contribution. That mistake by Kaminski is his contribution to the result. What I am saying that each and every player's contribution is analysed. In the case of Edwards, it will be how many times he makes a tackle, how many times he loses possession, how many times he loses the person he marks, how many successful passes he completes etc etc. So those individual stats will form part of the team's performance.Chunes said:
I'm sure we are not going to agree on this, which is fine, but Haaland's goals are individual outputs. That's why we can link them to points. "City wins more with Haaland" isn't the proof... "Haaland scores a high share of their goals" is.Addick Addict said:
They can be. If one was to take that to its nth degree then, effectively, we would have to say that Haaland's performances haven't contributed to City's stats. No one else in the PL for City has scored more than a single goal and it is because of his 14 goals that they have the number of points they have. But then he has a supply of chances made by some world class creative players. Those are individual performances too. We've got a lot of ball carriers but not a lot of inventiveness.Chunes said:Team stats are not a marker for individual performance.
I repeat, 9 shots on target in total in the last 4 matches. That's a team stat and is directly, if not wholly, linked to the performance of individuals. Be that the creators or opportunity takers.
Equally, the chances are that had Edwards been playing in the last couple of games, his individual performance would have, almost certainly meant that we would not have had that team stat of conceding 8 goals in 2 games - we let in 5 goals in the 7 matches he played in and picked up 4 clean sheets and 11 points in the process.
If it was 0-0 yesterday and Kaminski dropped the ball into his net, how does that reflect on Kelman, Burke or whoever else isn't playing? But you could easily use that result in a team stat argument to say we lose without them.
I don't think any recruitment department judges a player on the team’s win or loss record when he’s on the pitch because it tells you nothing about their contribution.
With Kelman, of course, goals, shots etc etc will form part of it. But other stats like how many times he wins the ball, how many times he holds, how many times he closes down a defender. They also contribute because it means that the ball doesn't keep coming back and we are under constant pressure. Unfortunately, because of the way we play and that lack of service will affect the number of chances he gets but that doesn't mean that he hasn't done his bit.
All footballers are measured by what they do with and without the ball and both contribute to a team's stats and performance. NJ clearly thinks that Kelman is our best option but there were others who felt that Leaburn would be better starting. That isn't the case by any metric. Others believe that Godden will be better but until he is actually fit we aren't going to know.3
