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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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The police attitude to Gate 21 is nonsense. 300 police at the game, yet none anywhere useful
And baffling how all the plod in the control box weren't actively monitoring that gate, and then immediately acting. If they didn't see that incident, what were they looking at?1 -
That wouldn’t cover it. Where does the other £100k come from.ElfsborgAddick said:So on those figures it will cost around 200k at worst to have plod inside the ground.
Increase the grade A games by £5 next season to cover the outlay.0 -
Ducktapeshoerepairs said:
That wouldn’t cover it. Where does the other £100k come from.ElfsborgAddick said:So on those figures it will cost around 200k at worst to have plod inside the ground.
Increase the grade A games by £5 next season to cover the outlay.
This figure has been shown to be way off the mark, so do what people have done to me for the past 59 years, ignore.
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These are CAST recommendations...
Final Paragraph makes it clear that CAST are looking at ways to counter measures by police for future Millwall matches. I hope CAST are requesting a meeting with club and police as a priority to look at all ways of avoiding what happened & that in future Millwall fans are kept in JS Stand after the match.
The Club can look to helping by reducing Millwall away capacity to 2000, more stewards and paying for police & banning alcohol in JS stand etc. Tighting issue of Charlton fans buying tickets for "Millwall" mates in home sections etc.https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
CAST recommends first of all that the club takes action urgently to ensure the gate between the Jimmy Seed stand and the Alan Curbishley stand is repaired, always properly staffed and always fit for segregation purposes.
CAST recommends that whenever there are any proposed changes to the standard entry and egress systems:
1. The police and club to consult with and share major decisions on crowd control / management with all relevant parties, including CAST.
2. The club to lead on advance communication to fans regarding pre- and post-match arrangements if these differ from normal. In this instance - and it may be the same in future - the police decided on the post-match arrangements just a couple of days before the match. Whether the club agrees with the police arrangements or not, it is incumbent on the club to use all channels available - club website, social media and email to ticket holders - to inform fans in advance clearly and fully of the arrangements. CAST will support the club in amplifying such messages.
3. The club to inform fans during and immediately post match of such arrangements via the big screen and digital boards plus tannoy announcements - repeated and audible - throughout home areas. The club also to ensure that stewards are fully briefed and ready to assist and direct fans as they leave the stadium.
4. Police to deploy officers at all egress points immediately outside the stadium to direct fans and manage routes upon exit, potentially including signposting and loud hailer announcements.
5. Police to identify and manage risks - including deployment of sufficient officers - in the execution of planned external routes - for example, avoiding bottlenecks on Harvey Gardens, proper usage of Ransom Walk, temporarily closing Charlton Lane to traffic, managing the bottleneck of the Charlton Lane level crossing.
6. Police and club to communicate proactively with the rail companies - Southeastern, Thameslink and Network Rail - as soon as the fixtures are published to pre-empt issues concerning engineering works and limited train services on match days.
These recommendations were made on the assumption that the police will insist on similar arrangements for "high risk" fixtures in future seasons but this does not mean that we think those arrangements are appropriate or reasonable. On the contrary, they reward the anti social behaviour of a minority and they put the majority to inconvenience. We will work with the club and other agencies (e.g. local MPs) to counter any such measures and put pressure on the police to reconsider. After seeing similar police strategies imposed for recent Millwall games at Palace and QPR, CAST has reiterated our concerns to the Metropolitan Police.
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When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)0 -
Is it the Mayor or the London Assembly that are the effective boss of the Met? Len Duvall's the Greenwich and Lewisham member of the Assembly, so perhaps he's next port of call for lobbying, if not Sadiq Khan.0
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You know exactly what I meant mate, no need to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)Tell me I’m wrong next season when the same happens again.5 -
Good old Sadiq.aliwibble said:Is it the Mayor or the London Assembly that are the effective boss of the Met? Len Duvall's the Greenwich and Lewisham member of the Assembly, so perhaps he's next port of call for lobbying, if not Sadiq Khan.0 -
Yes, and no... Commisioner Mark Rowley is in charge of "strategic direction", which this situation would come under. But nagging the mayor and Len Duvall wouldn't do any harm, I am sure...aliwibble said:Is it the Mayor or the London Assembly that are the effective boss of the Met? Len Duvall's the Greenwich and Lewisham member of the Assembly, so perhaps he's next port of call for lobbying, if not Sadiq Khan.0 -
stonemuse said:
You know exactly what I meant mate, no need to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)Tell me I’m wrong next season when the same happens again.
Cause it will happen again. They have used it 3 times already this season in London and they will say it's been planned to the way they wanted it to occur after those games1 -
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shirty5 said:stonemuse said:
You know exactly what I meant mate, no need to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)Tell me I’m wrong next season when the same happens again.
Cause it will happen again. They have used it 3 times already this season in London and they will say it's been planned to the way they wanted it to occur after those gamesAll day long, coupled with saying "the day went off without any incident, blah f****** blah".Overlooking that the layout of The Valley is a recipe for disaster with overcrowding.0 -
Of course you are right , if we dont challenge them, the same will happen. I took from your post though that you think that if the police decide on something like this, there is nothing we can do to question it. Which would be quite a serious issue, if true, don’t you agree?stonemuse said:
You know exactly what I meant mate, no need to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)Tell me I’m wrong next season when the same happens again.
On the surface it seems to be that way, as the Met.seem to have erected a total comms firewall. I spent a fair bit of time trying to get a direct contact for the senior officer who corresponded with CAST, but there is no way. I cannot even find out where he is based. Up to a point I sympathise with the Met, they face some very serious threats, but if that firewall means that ordinary citizens cannot communicate with them at all, that’s not healthy. We should not accept it. CAST have a channel, but only because by implication they have to mind their p’s and q’s otherwise their status might be reviewed. The Met are answerable to everyone in London and more broadly to all taxpayers, not just pre-vetted organisations.So rather than just be resigned to it, we should find ways to establish a direct channel of communication to the Met and fire the questions at them which are currently only being aired on here.0 -
PragueAddick said:
Of course you are right , if we dont challenge them, the same will happen. I took from your post though that you think that if the police decide on something like this, there is nothing we can do to question it. Which would be quite a serious issue, if true, don’t you agree?stonemuse said:
You know exactly what I meant mate, no need to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
When you say “ we can’t”, are you saying that no mechanism exists whereby we as citizens can contact the correct relevant police unit directly regarding a relatively low-level crime issue, with related public safety , present our concerns, and expect answers from them? If yes, have you considered the implications of what you are saying?stonemuse said:
We can’t and they won’t. All congratulating themselves on a successful job and it will happen again next year.PragueAddick said:
I’m personally happy with that CAST summary, especially re the police. My question would be, how do we ensure that the police read it, and engage with it?fenaddick said:
CAST have responded to the meeting and said next steps. No one else has said anything (that I'm aware of)Off_it said:So, as far as the "official" channels are concerned - ie the Trust, the fan reps, and all the other "representatives" that attended the meeting - what next?
Do they think it's all done and dusted and that the Club and the Old Bill have sufficiently answered all of the questions? Are there no points outstanding? Is there going to be any follow up on this? Or is that it now until next time, when we roll out the red carpet and bend over again.
Only next time maybe the bottle necks in the crowd wont resolve themselves quite so favourably ......
https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/supporter-forum-notes-published-2/
(Best regards from a former “police state”😉)Tell me I’m wrong next season when the same happens again.
On the surface it seems to be that way, as the Met.seem to have erected a total comms firewall. I spent a fair bit of time trying to get a direct contact for the senior officer who corresponded with CAST, but there is no way. I cannot even find out where he is based. Up to a point I sympathise with the Met, they face some very serious threats, but if that firewall means that ordinary citizens cannot communicate with them at all, that’s not healthy. We should not accept it. CAST have a channel, but only because by implication they have to mind their p’s and q’s otherwise their status might be reviewed. The Met are answerable to everyone in London and more broadly to all taxpayers, not just pre-vetted organisations.So rather than just be resigned to it, we should find ways to establish a direct channel of communication to the Met and fire the questions at them which are currently only being aired on here.CAST should formally request a meeting with Charlton Athletic and the Metropolitan Police regarding the handling of future high-risk fixtures, particularly the next Millwall game.
While CAST has an established channel through the club and its safety officer, ordinary fans have no realistic way of getting answers directly from the Met, and the club often acts as a firewall. Recent attempts by fans to contact the club have gone unanswered, (2 emails) and the post-match “survey” circulated after the Millwall game feels like a hollow exercise, repeated after each home fixture with no visible outcomes or shared feedback.
It’s vital that CAST uses its position to press both the club and the Met Police for transparency and meaningful dialogue. As supporters and taxpayers, we have every right to expect accountability and to help find better, safer solutions for all fans.
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"This is the song that never ends....it just goes on and on my friends...."0
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Major said:"This is the song that never ends....it just goes on and on my friends...."
Unless we keep banging the drum & bass, the club and The Police will happily stick with the Status Quo.
We’re not looking for a Clash, or trying to be a bunch of Manic Street Preachers, but let’s face it, the needle’s stuck, and the same old tune keeps spinning from Club and The Police
The club would love us to turn down the volume, nod politely, and move on… but “Should we stay or should we go?”
Charlton fans have never been quiet, it’s in our DNA to make ourselves heard. So let’s turn the music up, make some noise, and remind everyone that the Valley still has a powerful voice!
We want CAST to bang some drums and make some noises and yes keep music loud till we get some common sense from the club and police about Millwall situ.
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Len Duvall is a good idea! He’s a big Hamster, so the argument that the Met will never dare hold back the West Ham fans when the scum come to the Taxpayers Stadium ( which looks increasingly a live issue) will land with him. I’ll do it, because I’ve met him ( during the Tax Stadium campaign), so that allows me some legitimacy even though I live abroad, but dont leave it to me, please. The more, the better.aliwibble said:Is it the Mayor or the London Assembly that are the effective boss of the Met? Len Duvall's the Greenwich and Lewisham member of the Assembly, so perhaps he's next port of call for lobbying, if not Sadiq Khan.Len.Duvall@london.gov.uk( at least the last time I had contact with him)1 -
Sent. Anyone else? Especially if you have personal accounts from the day which are a bit more than just a longer walk. Or something similar to our two local MPs (Pennycook/Efford, who probably speak to Duvall, being from the same tribe)
Dear Len,You were kind enough to meet me, with my campaign colleague, Kevin Rye in 2019 regarding the Olympic Stadium finances.I'm writing today on a different subject, concerning Met police tactics for handling London derbies involving Millwall. I'm a Charlton fan and there is a good deal of frustration and anger among all concerned with the club about the Met's handling of the game with Millwall at the Valley on 13th of September. Against the wishes and recommendations of the club, the Met. decided at short notice to impose a tactic which they had previously used a couple of times before the pandemic in this fixture, namely to hold home fans back while Millwall fans were given freedom to leave the stadium. We've since learnt that the Met used a similar tactic subsequently at Crystal Palace and QPR when Millwall were visitors in recent weeks. However, the tactic is particularly inappropriate at Charlton due to the geography of the stadium and surrounding area, with the station so close. The attendance was 23,000+ so the stadium was 90% full. Due to the very late imposition of the arrangement, there was widespread confusion and crowding after the game to potentially dangerous levels. An attached photo shows the situation leaving the West Stand. If a medical emergency had occurred at that point the consequences would have been serious. The Met had 275 officers on duty at the game; despite this, they completely failed to attend a violent incident where Millwall fans broke through an emergency access gate to attack entirely innocent Charlton fans leaving from the East Stand. I was nearly caught up in this myself, we had to wait on the concourse for the trouble to die down. From there all the way up to the buses at Charlton Village, I didn’t see a single police officer. Photos attached show an assault on a single innocent fan seeking to calm the situation. We have not heard from the police whether the perpetrator has been arrested, or even whether any attempt has been made to apprehend him.Yet the Met Police apparently consider the exercise a “success” and have pushed back on the Club and the Supporters Trust; and now seem intent on imposing this whenever Millwall play away in the capital. It goes against all the usual practice of policing football matches, whereby visiting fans who are considered troublesome are held back while the home fans exit in the normal way. The idea that home fans should be treated in this way is an unwelcome return to the mindset of the 1980’s, whereby they are treated in a way they would never encounter as normal citizens at other mass events, e.g.attending a concert at the O2.. However the Met have also thrown a communications firewall around themselves so that normal citizens cannot communicate with them directly on issues which affect them. That’s why as citizens (I’m no longer on the CAST Board as I was when we met) I and others are seeking the help of our elected representatives to impress upon the police that a tactic whereby London citizens, who just happen to include football as one of their innocent pastimes, have their personal safety put at risk simply because their club is playing Millwall.There are several inconsistencies in the Met's approach, which are obvious to us, and which add to our frustration; namely:- at the return match, visiting Charlton fans, like those of other clubs, will be held back, usually for around 45 minutes- no such arrangement has ever been imposed at The Valley for any other fixtures- we are not aware of any other police forces using this tactic when Millwall visit, not at Leeds nor at Birmingham City where there is a history of violence between home fans and Millwalland finally, Len, can you imagine that the Met will try this when,as now looks to be imminent, Millwall play West Ham at the London Stadium?We will be taking this up with the two most relevant MPs (Matt Pennycook and Clive Efford) but since the Met are responsible to Mayor Khan we thought that this should also be a matter for our elected Assembly reps; and I know that you are a “seasoned” football fan, who can readily see both the absurdity and the potential for serious consequences of this Met tactic.I look forward to hearing whether you’d be prepared to take this up; you may wish to be in contact with CAST, which I can facilitate, since they at least have had some direct dialogue with the Met. even though I fear they and the Club may feel the need for restraint in expressing their objections. Please let me know if so.With kind regards8 -
As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.7 -
Yes , but I consciously took a slight liberty there to get his attention.I included that dramatic foto of people trying to get out of the West on the stairs, they were de facto held back, while I was held back by an outbreak of violent bellendery right in front of me. I dont think it is wrong to say that Millwall were given priority to get out and get to the station, which goes against principles of policing established for years.Covered End said:As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.
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Out of interest, which photo did you send him of the West Stand?PragueAddick said:
Yes , but I consciously took a slight liberty there to get his attention.I included that dramatic foto of people trying to get out of the West on the stairs, they were de facto held back, while I was held back by an outbreak of violent bellendery right in front of me. I dont think it is wrong to say that Millwall were given priority to get out and get to the station, which goes against principles of policing established for years.Covered End said:As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.0 -
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We were effectively locked in, as it took an absolute age just to leave the ground due to the masse of people stood, confused and not moving, in Harvey Gardens.Covered End said:As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.1 -
The one which appears in this thread (I took all four photos from here)Off_it said:
Out of interest, which photo did you send him of the West Stand?PragueAddick said:
Yes , but I consciously took a slight liberty there to get his attention.I included that dramatic foto of people trying to get out of the West on the stairs, they were de facto held back, while I was held back by an outbreak of violent bellendery right in front of me. I dont think it is wrong to say that Millwall were given priority to get out and get to the station, which goes against principles of policing established for years.Covered End said:As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.1 -
PragueAddick said:
The one which appears in this thread (I took all four photos from here)Off_it said:
Out of interest, which photo did you send him of the West Stand?PragueAddick said:
Yes , but I consciously took a slight liberty there to get his attention.I included that dramatic foto of people trying to get out of the West on the stairs, they were de facto held back, while I was held back by an outbreak of violent bellendery right in front of me. I dont think it is wrong to say that Millwall were given priority to get out and get to the station, which goes against principles of policing established for years.Covered End said:As a point of fact not criticism, Charlton fans weren’t held back as such.
They were not locked in but rerouted.
Mind you it makes me wonder how Millwall appear to be able to lock us in at The New Den and yet we can’t lock the gate at The Valley between away end & The Curbs.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F_WhTqpSZSI 0 -
Money before safety of fans.
Well done Charlton.1 -
I've only herd this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .0
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Probably means every Charlton will have to go to the station regardless of how you got to the match.doronron said:I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .0 -
As fans, we can only hope those in charge run our club well, with managers and players who deliver results. Obvious, yes but after decades of ups and downs since the 80's, Charlton supporters have every right to question decisions that affect us.
The Millwall game showed how the club disrespected its loyal fanbase through poor communication before, during, and after. On the pitch, it’s brilliant to be on Nathan’s bus, the play-off victory, his passion and belief in a strong squad, but off the field, things remain messy. Our much-loved Valley and excellent training ground are still owned by an ageing Belgian landlord.
CAST’s role is to protect, preserve, and promote Charlton Athletic for this and future generations. That means stepping up working with the club and the Met police and looking at ways to fix the Millwall situation so away fans are contained and home supporters can leave safely, like every other matchday. (multiple ideas on this thread)
On ownership, we need clarity on what the current owners are doing. Being tenants isn’t sustainable. Fans want the Valley, free from a Rackman landlord. CAST has the best channels to press on both issues, as fan emails go unanswered, surveys vanish, and communication from the club is non-existent.
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There is one fact,Over the years,millwall fans have always caused problems,remember smashing up the Luton Town stadium years ago.They revel in their reputation.One answer,ban all millwall fans from away games.0
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"1. The police and club to consult with and share major decisions on crowd control / management with all relevant parties, including CAST."
Surely by being part of the safety advisory group this reccomendation would have been met?2 -
Unlikely but if indeed true I would say that’s more likely to do with logistics in that Boro fans have to get back to the North East and holding them back would have just caused them unnecessary hassle and potentially missing trains pre-booked and then causing a high demand for trains back home.doronron said:I've only heard this second hand but Millwall were locked out of South Bermondsey Station while Middlesbrough fans were escorted to the trains, so we might not be held back this year .0
