Forwards not scoring

hoof_it_up_to_benty · October 21

10 goals this season and a solitary one from our forwards. Is it a cause for concern?

Is it simply down to our style of play?

NabySarr · October 21

I think the concern is that they aren’t getting chances rather than they aren’t scoring. If they were missing chances then you’d think the goals will come soon, but they aren’t getting many.

It’s not a major concern though, we just need to stay up this season, Oxford did that last season with a top goalscorer only scoring 6 goals. At the moment we are a mid-table side and deservedly so, which is great

I’d like to see Jones try and tweak things to get a bit more going forward, but I can also see why he doesn’t try when things are going well enough anyway and there’s a risk it could go wrong at the other end of the pitch.

Could we try TC or Hernandez at LWB, given we have Bree on the other side who could be more defensive. Then you could play 2 strikers, or you could play Apter with a striker and end up with our system last season but flipped to the other side. It’s a balancing act though, can’t change things too much and risk losing the defensive solidity

Sword65pf · October 21

NabySarr said:

I think the concern is that they aren’t getting chances rather than they aren’t scoring. If they were missing chances then you’d think the goals will come soon, but they aren’t getting many.

It’s not a major concern though, we just need to stay up this season, Oxford did that last season with a top goalscorer only scoring 6 goals. At the moment we are a mid-table side and deservedly so, which is great

I’d like to see Jones try and tweak things to get a bit more going forward, but I can also see why he doesn’t try when things are going well enough anyway and there’s a risk it could go wrong at the other end of the pitch.

Could we try TC or Hernandez at LWB, given we have Bree on the other side who could be more defensive. Then you could play 2 strikers, or you could play Apter with a striker and end up with our system last season but flipped to the other side. It’s a balancing act though, can’t change things too much and risk losing the defensive solidity

Agree with this, also think we should be concerned more if others are not chipping in with goals, that’s when we need the strikers to bang them in. In an ideal world our strikers would have a few goals by now. Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t many 20+ goals a season from anyone last year, so our boys have a little time to get respectable numbers… keeps fingers crossed!!

fenaddick · October 21

Our attacking play is quite odd when you drill down into the stats a little bit.

Good stats:

Shots on target per match - 9th in the league

Touches in opposition box - 5th

Accurate crosses per match - 10th

Bad stats:

xG - 22nd

Big chances - 21st

Corners - 22nd

Accurate passes per 90 - 24th

Accurate long balls per 90 - 22nd

That says to me we're getting into decent positions in the box but not doing much with them. A lot of the time we win the second ball from an "inaccurate" long ball and then drive forward towards the box. Sometimes that's great, like our first goal on Saturday. Sometimes it's bad, if the opposition defence organise well then our attacking players get held up and have to wait for the midfield runners and options in the box. At times our attacking play is too quick for the rest of the team to catch up

fenaddick · October 21

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

I think the concern is that they aren’t getting chances rather than they aren’t scoring. If they were missing chances then you’d think the goals will come soon, but they aren’t getting many.

It’s not a major concern though, we just need to stay up this season, Oxford did that last season with a top goalscorer only scoring 6 goals. At the moment we are a mid-table side and deservedly so, which is great

I’d like to see Jones try and tweak things to get a bit more going forward, but I can also see why he doesn’t try when things are going well enough anyway and there’s a risk it could go wrong at the other end of the pitch.

Could we try TC or Hernandez at LWB, given we have Bree on the other side who could be more defensive. Then you could play 2 strikers, or you could play Apter with a striker and end up with our system last season but flipped to the other side. It’s a balancing act though, can’t change things too much and risk losing the defensive solidity

Agree with this, also think we should be concerned more if others are not chipping in with goals, that’s when we need the strikers to bang them in. In an ideal world our strikers would have a few goals by now. Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t many 20+ goals a season from anyone last year, so our boys have a little time to get respectable numbers… keeps fingers crossed!!

There were none last season and only 2 the season before

sam3110 · October 21

They're also creating the space for people like Carey to drive into and shoot, which is a big part of our game plan. I'm not too fussed given the fact we're 10th

Sword65pf · October 21

fenaddick said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

I think the concern is that they aren’t getting chances rather than they aren’t scoring. If they were missing chances then you’d think the goals will come soon, but they aren’t getting many.

It’s not a major concern though, we just need to stay up this season, Oxford did that last season with a top goalscorer only scoring 6 goals. At the moment we are a mid-table side and deservedly so, which is great

I’d like to see Jones try and tweak things to get a bit more going forward, but I can also see why he doesn’t try when things are going well enough anyway and there’s a risk it could go wrong at the other end of the pitch.

Could we try TC or Hernandez at LWB, given we have Bree on the other side who could be more defensive. Then you could play 2 strikers, or you could play Apter with a striker and end up with our system last season but flipped to the other side. It’s a balancing act though, can’t change things too much and risk losing the defensive solidity

Agree with this, also think we should be concerned more if others are not chipping in with goals, that’s when we need the strikers to bang them in. In an ideal world our strikers would have a few goals by now. Correct me if I’m wrong but there wasn’t many 20+ goals a season from anyone last year, so our boys have a little time to get respectable numbers… keeps fingers crossed!!

There were none last season and only 2 the season before

I thought so, wasn’t sure, but maybe that should make us less expectant of our strikers bearing in mind the lack of championship experience. Trying to keep the glass half full.

Sword65pf · October 21

sam3110 said:

They're also creating the space for people like Carey to drive into and shoot, which is a big part of our game plan. I'm not too fussed given the fact we're 10th

Agree

Carter · October 21

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

wmcf123 · October 21

It is a worry - we aren’t creating enough chances for our forwards . We’re getting away with it at the moment because the general play is good , but we do need to find a way of scoring more goals and creating chances .

Addick Addict · October 21

The Championship is the tightest of all divisions with most teams capable, currently, of taking points off each other. If we were to take Coventry out of the equation (who have scored a ridiculous 29 goals) then the average goals scored per team is 11.58 which equates to each team averaging 53 goals a season.

Not many teams are going to have 20 goal strikers when they are averaging 53. In fact, Middlesbrough, currently in second, have scored 14 in total and their top scorer has two with no less than 12 players having found the net.

I mentioned Coventry as being an outlier and that is further evidenced by the fact that they have three players to have scored six or more when no other team has a player to better that - so they could end up with three with 20 plus. They are just doing things much better than everyone else, so much so that only Stoke have conceded less than them.

golfaddick · October 21

We currently play with just 1 "forward" as TC is more a winger (certainly not a natural striker) and when subs are deployed its usually on a like-for-like basis. Not often do we play 2 "up top" and usually only in the last 10 mins when we are chasing a game.

Might be different when Godden is fit & is playing regularly but then we are puttingca'lot of pressure on a player who's been out for 4 months.

I understand that no team last season had a "20 goal a season" player.......but it would be nice if our 5 "forwards" could muster 20 goals between them !

ElfsborgAddick · October 21

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

10 goals this season and a solitary one from our forwards. Is it a cause for concern?
Is it simply down to our style of play?

I'd say it is a cause for concern.

Not necessarily at the strikers but the overall formation.

ElfsborgAddick · October 21

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

I hope you are wrong as we'd be in grave danger of going down.

MrOneLung · October 21

we bought in players who scored 60 goals in Div 1 last season

unfortunately we didn't think to get in anyone who could score in the Championship

msomerton · October 21

The concern is that we know how Jones sets teams up and how he expects them to play, and we recruit forwards who are not cut out for this type of game plan. The exception has been Godden.

kafka · October 21

MrOneLung said:

we bought in players who scored 60 goals in Div 1 last season

unfortunately we didn't think to get in anyone who could score in the Championship

Millwall spent £5m on a Championship striker - he's scored once. Their top scorer has 2. They are sitting in sixth.

killerandflash · October 21

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

Carey made a brilliant cross across the box on Saturday, but Kelman was in the wrong place.

Kelman is working hard, but doesn't seem to be getting into good positions to take a shot. It can't be just luck that Carey has so many more shots than Kelman.

Carter · October 21

killerandflash said:

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

Carey made a brilliant cross across the box on Saturday, but Kelman was in the wrong place.

Kelman is working hard, but doesn't seem to be getting into good positions to take a shot. It can't be just luck that Carey has so many more shots than Kelman.

Carey plays in a totally different position, he lurks in the pocket around the box, gets the opportunity to move into his danger range from his position. Centre forwards are reliant on service

Garrymanilow · October 21

In L1 we tended to be allowed to have a lot of the ball. That was used against us when we were static and narrow and became a strength when we added width. Even then though most chances came from TC or Small creating something with their pace and Godden knowing where to be as the chance developed. Now we get less of the ball and do a lot more fire fighting. Pace is less of an unstoppable asset at this level so we don't get chances just because of players having those attributes so we're creating less for the strikers. Our core principles have stayed the same throughout though: win the ball as high up the pitch as possible and force a goal off the back of that. The perfect Nathan Jones goal is sending the ball up as far as possible and the strikers pressuring the defence so aggressively that a defender plays the ball into the first line of our press and we score. Second balls being won off the back of an aggressive all player press is the main tactic and if it's done right ultimately the chances are going to fall to the likes of Carey, Docherty or Bree/Apter more than they will fall to the strikers. The strikers force the issue and are often the means for creating the chance more than finishing it.

I think that will change over time. Jones is always talking about adding quality to the play after the basics are nailed down and we've got a team with plenty of new players playing up a level - a lot of them for the first time - and adapting to the increased pace, aggression and talent needed. As players adapt and develop I think we'll start creating more intricate chances but for now the strikers are doing their jobs and we're benefiting from it

Carter · October 21

ElfsborgAddick said:

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

I hope you are wrong as we'd be in grave danger of going down.

Nah we'd be ok, we have a fairly big squad. I imagine we will have a load of players with 4 or 5 each, there are always outliers with a few each the the 1's and 2's but the important thing to keep in mind is we don't leak goals. It's the impossible dream to not let any in and score lots. Jones has sensibly built from the back but we are very low margin and will remain so barring the odd game where we get an early goal and the opposition have to commit people to attacking us leaving big pockets of space

thenewbie · October 21

killerandflash said:

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

Carey made a brilliant cross across the box on Saturday, but Kelman was in the wrong place.

Kelman is working hard, but doesn't seem to be getting into good positions to take a shot. It can't be just luck that Carey has so many more shots than Kelman.

Its not luck, its the way the system is set up. The pressing approach creates a loose ball or a scrambled clearance that someone running into the box can attack - that's what Carey does well.

ElfsborgAddick · October 21

Carter said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

Carter said:

I'll be amazed if anyone gets more than 6 this season. We are low margin, keepers are so, so much better at this level than last season. So are defenders and defences. I can imagine Knibbs and Carey, maybe one if the centre halves being our main goal scorers come April.

We don't sling the ball into the box when it goes wide, it geberally gets worked back into the middle which players like Carey will love as it gives them spaces to have a pop.

We are strong from set pieces and when Edwards is back we have the long throw available again.

Kelman has been playing well, I hope he isn’t giving himself a hard time or getting inside his own head as he isn't stuttering his lines at all.

Campbell is a slightly different problem, he is working hard, has less pressure on him for goals though

I hope you are wrong as we'd be in grave danger of going down.

Nah we'd be ok, we have a fairly big squad. I imagine we will have a load of players with 4 or 5 each, there are always outliers with a few each the the 1's and 2's but the important thing to keep in mind is we don't leak goals. It's the impossible dream to not let any in and score lots. Jones has sensibly built from the back but we are very low margin and will remain so barring the odd game where we get an early goal and the opposition have to commit people to attacking us leaving big pockets of space

It will be interesting to see how the season pans out, if we go in front atm you have to fancy our chances of three points. However, the Preston game was a worry as once we went behind we were not looking like coming back into the game.

I'll stick with the thinking we'll be bottom six come the end of the season.

C_Dubz · October 21

Sometimes it’s not all about the “Goals” metric. Kelman and Campbell have been a massive part of our defensive success so far this season.

Jones wants us to play the game away from our own goal, whether we’re in possession or not, and that means the forwards have two key jobs:

When the opposition has the ball: press high and force them to go long, where our defensive line is comfortable dealing with it.
When we have the ball deep: look to receive longer passes and disrupt defenders — make them mistime or misplace their clearances so our midfield can pick up the second balls.

Both of these approaches help us stay higher up the pitch and away from danger, reducing our chances of conceding.

The forwards’ work is crucial here as they’re our first line of defence. If they aren't effective at these, we have to play deeper and under more threat. Take a look at when we’ve conceded (see Statbank): we’ve let in only 2 goals before the 60th minute when Kelman and Campbell generally come off, compared to 7 afterwards. In contrast, we’ve scored 6 goals in that same early period.

The trade-off for the forwards with this approach is that they have less space to operate in the opposition half and fewer chances to run in behind.

The goals will come, but for now, their contribution to our structure and defensive strength has been excellent. That said… I wouldn’t mind seeing a Kelman goal soon!

Crispywood · October 21

Problem is our do the basics system it probably prefers forwards that offer an all round game rather than specific qualities.

Kelman- Good finisher but no physical presence and lacks positioning

Oloafe- Really good physical profile but more a headless chicken/nuisance than a natural striker.

Leaburn- Good in the air, good finisher but hasn’t got the strength or hold up play to match his build.

TC- Fast direct good on the ball, but no decision making or end product.

Godden isn’t the quickest he’s not the strongest he’s not the tallest but he offers enough from those aspects to support his clinical finishing.

All our other forwards this season have one attribute that is absolutely quality that’s probably top championship level but lack something else that brings them right down as a player. If they can fix those flaws they suddenly become brilliant players which is why I’m not concerned just yet with the lack of goals but by the end of the season if they can’t haven’t improved on those aspects we have to ask if the negatives outweigh the positives

Zulu · October 21

It may have been pointed out before...
Have we had a pen this season? .... i cant recall one.
Who is likely to be our pen taker? Kelman (he was for Orient) ?, or maybe Bree?, who looks to have a monster of a right foot.

NabySarr · October 22

I’d like the thank the creator of this thread for guaranteeing a goal from a forward by creating this

arthur · October 22

against Ipswich all 4 forwards had good chances to score. That was good progress.
Leaburn was the only one to put a chance away but positive that Tanto and Kelman both brought decent saves from the GK. TC's chance going narrowly wide with his trademark low curling shot to the far post.

Crispywood · October 22

Leaburn getting a goal, TC getting an assist. Kelman winning the corner for the 2nd and Tanto forcing the save for the ball to rebound to Gillesphey for the 2nd nice to see all our forwards contributing

closet_addick · October 22

I try to think of them as "Firminos". False nines that contribute more than stats can show for. Will eventually bag some goals, but where they excel is unlocking the opposition to make space for Zinedine Zid- I mean Sonny Carey to get goalscoring chances.

Addick Addict · October 22

As much as it would be great if our forwards were banging in goals left, right and centre, there are probably very, very few teams that have defenders that have scored 5 goals at this stage of the season. Goals from all over the park is a positive as that is very difficult to prevent.

Equally, an over reliance on one striker can, actually, become a bit of a nightmare if that player is unavailable. What are City, for example, going to do if/when Haaland is injured/banned/rested? Sign their second top scorer with just two goals - Maxime Esteve of Burnley???

Forwards not scoring

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