Valley and Sparrows Lane lease extended to 2040
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All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"
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We left in 85 not 84TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"7 -
Callumcafc said:The thing about Roland is as soon as you stump up his asking price, he'll add another 10% on.
I do not agree with much you post but I make you on the money here.
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paulsturgess said:
This is largely true.Henry Irving said:
There's the rub.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
Roland based his valuation on housing land in Kensington.
Charlton and New Eltham maybe up and coming but they ain't Kensington.
Plus it would be difficult, although not impossible, to get planning permission for housing on the Valley, even harder on Sparrows Lane so that limits their value to developers.
The figure I heard a few (5?) years ago was £20m to £22m for both but I wouldn't swear to that being the case now.
But £20m is something like 35 to 40 years rent assuming £500+ pa so the owners maybe content to extend the lease, giving more immediate security while chipping away at Roland's stubbornness (my own view, not inside info).
But things can change quickly in football as Luton show.
but whilst Roland wouldn’t be able to find anyone else to pay that amount for the land, he could say we won’t be able find anywhere else with a fully built Premier League ready stadium.Luton are spending £100m+ building their new ground.So even if we found a site in the area able to accommodate a stadium…
Willing buyer willing seller, who blinks first etc etc. he’s got his money badly invested but we don’t have anywhere to go too, so….🤷♂️I had a Luton programme from 1982 and they produced an article with artists impressions for a ground in Milton Keynes.Why it has taken them 43 years to get to this stage is beyond me.0 -
msomerton said:
I learnt some months back, it costs £5000 to£7000 per seat to build a stadium depending on how comprehensive it is outfitted.paulsturgess said:
This is largely true.Henry Irving said:
There's the rub.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
Roland based his valuation on housing land in Kensington.
Charlton and New Eltham maybe up and coming but they ain't Kensington.
Plus it would be difficult, although not impossible, to get planning permission for housing on the Valley, even harder on Sparrows Lane so that limits their value to developers.
The figure I heard a few (5?) years ago was £20m to £22m for both but I wouldn't swear to that being the case now.
But £20m is something like 35 to 40 years rent assuming £500+ pa so the owners maybe content to extend the lease, giving more immediate security while chipping away at Roland's stubbornness (my own view, not inside info).
But things can change quickly in football as Luton show.
but whilst Roland wouldn’t be able to find anyone else to pay that amount for the land, he could say we won’t be able find anywhere else with a fully built Premier League ready stadium.Luton are spending £100m+ building their new ground.So even if we found a site in the area able to accommodate a stadium…
Willing buyer willing seller, who blinks first etc etc. he’s got his money badly invested but we don’t have anywhere to go too, so….🤷♂️
It makes season tickets cheap then
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Cannot open?YTS1978 said:A quick Google finds this...so i was kind of right. Seems like a lifetime ago!
https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm1 -
now you've gone and done it, expect a massive price hike next year!ElfsborgAddick said:msomerton said:
I learnt some months back, it costs £5000 to£7000 per seat to build a stadium depending on how comprehensive it is outfitted.paulsturgess said:
This is largely true.Henry Irving said:
There's the rub.msomerton said:How much is the land worth, I know that the Archbishop Tennyson School site which is 1.2acres, of Lease Hold and Free Hold land went for £7.8 million in summer 2024.
Roland based his valuation on housing land in Kensington.
Charlton and New Eltham maybe up and coming but they ain't Kensington.
Plus it would be difficult, although not impossible, to get planning permission for housing on the Valley, even harder on Sparrows Lane so that limits their value to developers.
The figure I heard a few (5?) years ago was £20m to £22m for both but I wouldn't swear to that being the case now.
But £20m is something like 35 to 40 years rent assuming £500+ pa so the owners maybe content to extend the lease, giving more immediate security while chipping away at Roland's stubbornness (my own view, not inside info).
But things can change quickly in football as Luton show.
but whilst Roland wouldn’t be able to find anyone else to pay that amount for the land, he could say we won’t be able find anywhere else with a fully built Premier League ready stadium.Luton are spending £100m+ building their new ground.So even if we found a site in the area able to accommodate a stadium…
Willing buyer willing seller, who blinks first etc etc. he’s got his money badly invested but we don’t have anywhere to go too, so….🤷♂️
It makes season tickets cheap then1 -
From BBC at the time:SoundAsa£ said:
Cannot open?YTS1978 said:A quick Google finds this...so i was kind of right. Seems like a lifetime ago!
https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stm
Charlton have sold their training ground to the club's directors in an attempt to inject money into the club.
The deal for £1.5m sees three sites used for training sold to chairman Richard Murray and honorary life president Sir Maurice Hatter.
Murray told the club's official website: "It might look like asset-stripping is going on, but that certainly isn't the case."
Charlton are bottom of the Championship, 12 points from safety.
The sale of the club's training ground, the Community Trust's Charlton Park rugby ground and the youth academy's Pippenhall sports ground was approved by Charlton plc shareholders on Wednesday.
Murray's Alliance Trust Pensions Limited and Sir Maurice's registered charity, The Maurice Hatter Foundation, made the purchases.
"The three key points are that the assets are in friendly hands, it's a 25-year lease, and if the club wants the facilities back, it can buy them back," said Murray.
"The three resolutions were all approved, so that was good. We explained the logic behind the decisions, and that Charlton won't suffer but will only benefit."
"The 25-year lease means the club has security of tenure and if, by any chance, the club came into some money which it wanted to invest back into the training ground, it's got an option to buy the training ground back."
"As most people will be aware, the directors have pumped a lot of money into the club and unfortunately, people like myself have just come to the end of their financial clout."
A residential site owned by the club near to the Valley, Lansdowne Mews, has also been sold as part of the deal to Bob Whitehand.
Definitely not asset stripping!
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This was agreed but never happened.YTS1978 said:
From BBC at the time:SoundAsa£ said:
Cannot open?YTS1978 said:A quick Google finds this...so i was kind of right. Seems like a lifetime ago!
https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stmCharlton have sold their training ground to the club's directors in an attempt to inject money into the club.
The deal for £1.5m sees three sites used for training sold to chairman Richard Murray and honorary life president Sir Maurice Hatter.
Murray told the club's official website: "It might look like asset-stripping is going on, but that certainly isn't the case."
Charlton are bottom of the Championship, 12 points from safety.
The sale of the club's training ground, the Community Trust's Charlton Park rugby ground and the youth academy's Pippenhall sports ground was approved by Charlton plc shareholders on Wednesday.
Murray's Alliance Trust Pensions Limited and Sir Maurice's registered charity, The Maurice Hatter Foundation, made the purchases.
"The three key points are that the assets are in friendly hands, it's a 25-year lease, and if the club wants the facilities back, it can buy them back," said Murray.
"The three resolutions were all approved, so that was good. We explained the logic behind the decisions, and that Charlton won't suffer but will only benefit."
"The 25-year lease means the club has security of tenure and if, by any chance, the club came into some money which it wanted to invest back into the training ground, it's got an option to buy the training ground back."
"As most people will be aware, the directors have pumped a lot of money into the club and unfortunately, people like myself have just come to the end of their financial clout."
A residential site owned by the club near to the Valley, Lansdowne Mews, has also been sold as part of the deal to Bob Whitehand.
Definitely not asset stripping!
The reason the assets were separated from the football company in 1992 was to protect them if the football company went bust - nothing more, nothing less. Holdings was a wholly owned subsidiary of the PLC (it had the same owners as the football company at all times). The PLC became Baton 2010 and Roland sold the football company out of it in 2020.2 -
Err the football company wasn’t Roland’s to sell in 2020? That was Sandgaard buying from ESI 1 despite the injunction by ESI 2?Airman Brown said:
This was agreed but never happened.YTS1978 said:
From BBC at the time:SoundAsa£ said:
Cannot open?YTS1978 said:A quick Google finds this...so i was kind of right. Seems like a lifetime ago!
https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/teams/c/charlton_athletic/8001820.stmCharlton have sold their training ground to the club's directors in an attempt to inject money into the club.
The deal for £1.5m sees three sites used for training sold to chairman Richard Murray and honorary life president Sir Maurice Hatter.
Murray told the club's official website: "It might look like asset-stripping is going on, but that certainly isn't the case."
Charlton are bottom of the Championship, 12 points from safety.
The sale of the club's training ground, the Community Trust's Charlton Park rugby ground and the youth academy's Pippenhall sports ground was approved by Charlton plc shareholders on Wednesday.
Murray's Alliance Trust Pensions Limited and Sir Maurice's registered charity, The Maurice Hatter Foundation, made the purchases.
"The three key points are that the assets are in friendly hands, it's a 25-year lease, and if the club wants the facilities back, it can buy them back," said Murray.
"The three resolutions were all approved, so that was good. We explained the logic behind the decisions, and that Charlton won't suffer but will only benefit."
"The 25-year lease means the club has security of tenure and if, by any chance, the club came into some money which it wanted to invest back into the training ground, it's got an option to buy the training ground back."
"As most people will be aware, the directors have pumped a lot of money into the club and unfortunately, people like myself have just come to the end of their financial clout."
A residential site owned by the club near to the Valley, Lansdowne Mews, has also been sold as part of the deal to Bob Whitehand.
Definitely not asset stripping!
The reason the assets were separated from the football company in 1992 was to protect them if the football company went bust - nothing more, nothing less. Holdings was a wholly owned subsidiary of the PLC (it had the same owners as the football company at all times). The PLC became Baton 2010 and Roland sold the football company out of it in 2020.1 - Sponsored links:
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Do we know exactly when the sale to ESI went through due to the whole murkiness around the EFL approval stuff? This piece from Sky is dated Jan 2nd 2020.I don't blame you though, that whole sage felt so much longer than a year.0
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The Valley is Charlton's home, it doesn't feel right having Roland still owning it and training ground, whatever the lease. I hope in the not too distant future it will come under one ownership with the team etc. The Valley is an iconic ground, were lucky, a modern stadium (which has room to expand) set in traditional streets close to a station. I'm sure like most Addicks The Valley has been their most consistent HOME, (aside reluctant renters@ Palace & Hammers.) I counted it up from parents rented flat in Westcombe Park, i've lived in 10 Homes, present one for 28yrs. I've seen countless promotions, relegations, managers, owners, players but the one consistency is The Valley. Coming back to SE7 feels like home, The Valley Cafe, Floyd Rd, East Stand, Red Red Robin, driving back across Blackheath through Deptford its HOME. Lets hope one day the team is united back with The Valley and Sparrows Lane, and Roland is finally gone!12
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Against a lot of competition, this is probably the stupidest comment I’ve seen on this forum.WSS said:Don't know what this means other than guaranteeing income for Roland?0 -
ROLAND OUT!2
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An interesting listen on Richard Cawley’s substack this morning re the lease and the furniture and fittings that I can’t remember hearing about before.1
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TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"I never want to leave the Valley, but neither did a lot of supporters of West Ham, Arsenal, Everton etc. But things change. If we left the Valley to go to a brand new stadium that would increase our revenue and chances of progressing I would take it. But The Valley is more than big enough for us at the moment.1
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Leaving The Valley isn't a thing until 1) we sell it out every week, 2) it's impossible to expand. The cost of building a new stadium in SE London or NW Kent would be mindblowingly expensive5
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Finding a location would be incredibly hard too.Rothko said:Leaving The Valley isn't a thing until 1) we sell it out every week, 2) it's impossible to expand. The cost of building a new stadium in SE London or NW Kent would be mindblowingly expensive
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I think 3 Prem teams are in literally a different league! Out of those 3 only Everton fans can be really happy with new stadium, Hammers London stadium is a souless awful athletics track, Arsenal no way is it better than Highbury. I of course know why those three and others moved to "modern bigger stadium" ....more seats, hospitiality, revenue etc.raytreacy said:TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"I never want to leave the Valley, but neither did a lot of supporters of West Ham, Arsenal, Everton etc. But things change. If we left the Valley to go to a brand new stadium that would increase our revenue and chances of progressing I would take it. But The Valley is more than big enough for us at the moment.
The Valley has lots of potential to increase to 40K If needed but that would only be with a decent run in the Premership. I would love to see ES & WS connected to JS stand so its its fully connected on all sides to make it @ 30K+ capacity. This is all academic whilst Roland holds the keys.0 -
TootingRedArmy said:
I think 3 Prem teams are in literally a different league! Out of those 3 only Everton fans can be really happy with new stadium, Hammers London stadium is a souless awful athletics track, Arsenal no way is it better than Highbury. I of course know why those three and others moved to "modern bigger stadium" ....more seats, hospitiality, revenue etc.raytreacy said:TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"I never want to leave the Valley, but neither did a lot of supporters of West Ham, Arsenal, Everton etc. But things change. If we left the Valley to go to a brand new stadium that would increase our revenue and chances of progressing I would take it. But The Valley is more than big enough for us at the moment.
The Valley has lots of potential to increase to 40K If needed but that would only be with a decent run in the Premership. I would love to see ES & WS connected to JS stand so its its fully connected on all sides to make it @ 30K+ capacity. This is all academic whilst Roland holds the keys.He will always be a serious problem and hinder our progress whilst he owns The Valley.Unlikely I know, but if we were promoted this season and spent the following four seasons selling out The Valley in the Premier League, we'd be looking at increasing the capacity. We couldn't.1 - Sponsored links:
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The money we’d get by two or three years in The. Champions League will help.Rothko said:Leaving The Valley isn't a thing until 1) we sell it out every week, 2) it's impossible to expand. The cost of building a new stadium in SE London or NW Kent would be mindblowingly expensive0 -
You'll never get there as you'll blow a couple of hundred million on a stadium.ShootersHillGuru said:
The money we’d get by two or three years in The. Champions League will help.Rothko said:Leaving The Valley isn't a thing until 1) we sell it out every week, 2) it's impossible to expand. The cost of building a new stadium in SE London or NW Kent would be mindblowingly expensive0 -
We need Roland out, and I hope the owners will focus on this. Yes they have lease but hopefully looking at ways to buy him out, owning Valley and training ground with the team is only way forward in the long term. The Valley is a brilliant stadium, The Jimmy Seed stand gives us plenty of opportunity to expand and complete the stadium, joining the ES & WS stands. A Valley with 30-35K maximum is achievable without great expense. There is no point getting ahead of ourselves we need to establish our position in Championship for a few seasons and hopefully then push on.1
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Why do you say that Elfie?ElfsborgAddick said:TootingRedArmy said:
I think 3 Prem teams are in literally a different league! Out of those 3 only Everton fans can be really happy with new stadium, Hammers London stadium is a souless awful athletics track, Arsenal no way is it better than Highbury. I of course know why those three and others moved to "modern bigger stadium" ....more seats, hospitiality, revenue etc.raytreacy said:TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"I never want to leave the Valley, but neither did a lot of supporters of West Ham, Arsenal, Everton etc. But things change. If we left the Valley to go to a brand new stadium that would increase our revenue and chances of progressing I would take it. But The Valley is more than big enough for us at the moment.
The Valley has lots of potential to increase to 40K If needed but that would only be with a decent run in the Premership. I would love to see ES & WS connected to JS stand so its its fully connected on all sides to make it @ 30K+ capacity. This is all academic whilst Roland holds the keys.He will always be a serious problem and hinder our progress whilst he owns The Valley.Unlikely I know, but if we were promoted this season and spent the following four seasons selling out The Valley in the Premier League, we'd be looking at increasing the capacity. We couldn't.0 -
The only way this will get sorted or when someone will be reasonable is when he passes away. Until then its the rental option1
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if we left the Valley i think that would be me done - there is no need for it - i watched an Everton game the other day - it was silent, unlike Goodison Park. West ham are stuffed. We should never consider a move as the best option available and i don't know why we are worrying about it. If he wanted to turf us out, he wouldn't have extended the lease.raytreacy said:TootingRedArmy said:All I know is I never want to see Charlton play anywhere but The Valley. I was there for the last game in 1984 and that unforgettable return against Pompey, moments that define what Home really means. So a 15-year lease feels like a lifeline and lifetime in football years. Whatever the future brings, The Valley is where Charlton Athletic belongs. In a world of oligarchs, sheikhs and super-rich owners, it’s good to know our heart still beats in SE7. Where will Charlton be in 2040, none of us knows, EFL or Prem may have really sold its soul long before then an doing an "NFL style" with some league games played Stateside and in Saudi by then...... Cue Wings "Mull of Valley-tyre"I never want to leave the Valley, but neither did a lot of supporters of West Ham, Arsenal, Everton etc. But things change. If we left the Valley to go to a brand new stadium that would increase our revenue and chances of progressing I would take it. But The Valley is more than big enough for us at the moment.1 -
exactly - i can't see that there would ever be a scenario in which it would be the best optionRothko said:Leaving The Valley isn't a thing until 1) we sell it out every week, 2) it's impossible to expand. The cost of building a new stadium in SE London or NW Kent would be mindblowingly expensive0 -
Anyone know if the memorial garden is consecrated land? That would potentially put a further hole in plans to extend or redevelop the Valley - so either an impediment or very useful depending on what we as a collective wanted to happen in the future. @Pico ?1
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Charlton fans fought long and hard to bring our club back to The Valley, thanks to endeavours of our fan base and there’s no reason to ever move away. Let’s hope one day we get the right owner or investment to finally complete the stadium and connect all four sides.
The first goal, of course, is to re-establish Charlton as a solid Championship club after nine years in League One (bar one!). American investment seems the likely route, like it or not, that’s where the EFL is heading, with clubs like Wrexham and Birmingham leading the way.
Charlton remains a fantastic opportunity for any investor: a proud London club with history, potential, and passionate support. Get it right on the pitch, and the crowds will follow and The Valley can be developed into a 30-35K stadium with not excessive costs. COYA's
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You do realise we are American owned?TootingRedArmy said:Charlton fans fought long and hard to bring our club back to The Valley, thanks to endeavours of our fan base and there’s no reason to ever move away. Let’s hope one day we get the right owner or investment to finally complete the stadium and connect all four sides.
The first goal, of course, is to re-establish Charlton as a solid Championship club after nine years in League One (bar one!). American investment seems the likely route, like it or not, that’s where the EFL is heading, with clubs like Wrexham and Birmingham leading the way.
Charlton remains a fantastic opportunity for any investor: a proud London club with history, potential, and passionate support. Get it right on the pitch, and the crowds will follow and The Valley can be developed into a 30-35K stadium with not excessive costs. COYA's
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