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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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Quite often when a serious or tragic incident occurs people will say they alerted the authorities to the risks previously.
That is usually met with a disinterested shrug.
If something serious happens in the future after a match at the Valley because of the decisions taken by any authority they won’t be able to say they weren’t warned, but they will still shrug.
It was a dangerous situation that passed off without hospitalisations through luck, not judgment.3 -
I think its a case of police not admitting they got it wrong and only option being to keep saying they got it right, when clearly 20,000 fans know they didn't. The can has been so far kicked away from the Valley its flown past The Den hit some jack arse indegionous Millwall fan in Bermondsey and boomeranged back down to Kent past various police stations and landed into a lesser spotted Millwall fan's toilet, where its been flushed away.
Its par for course no one takes the blame or says "we got it wrong" from top of society and government downwards. All CAST & club can do is to continue to make strongest statement that next time we play Millwall, we want to be treated like other clubs and that Millwall fans are kept inside the Valley, for however long it takes.5 -
DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.2 -
I don't recall it happening against Palace. It is unique and it is pedantry to suggest otherwise.bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.0 -
DOUCHER said:
I don't recall it happening against Palace. It is unique and it is pedantry to suggest otherwise.bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Your memory is playing tricks on you then because it certainly did happen when we last played Palace.1 -
i don't recall it but its still pedantic to say it isn't a unique decisionbobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
I don't recall it happening against Palace. It is unique and it is pedantry to suggest otherwise.bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Your memory is playing tricks on you then because it certainly did happen when we last played Palace.0 -
DOUCHER said:
i don't recall it but its still pedantic to say it isn't a unique decisionbobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
I don't recall it happening against Palace. It is unique and it is pedantry to suggest otherwise.bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Your memory is playing tricks on you then because it certainly did happen when we last played Palace.
Pedantry - excessive concern for minor details and rules - your 'right' question majors on the uniqueness of the police decision so hardly a minor detail.1 -
What I don't really understand is that this fixture doesn't have a history of severe disorder, so why the extreme measures?
Millwall have played and will continue to play away fixtures that have a far stronger likelihood of trouble and at those fixtures, the Millwall fans are kept in the ground for a period of time at the end of the match. Do the Millwall fans, on those occasions, riot or cause more trouble than they would any way? I doubt it. They probably accept it, as that is what always happens.
Surely, giving them preferential treatment, like this, makes it more likely that they will cause trouble elsewhere, when they aren't given that preferential treatment.
It just sets the wrong sort of precedent.9 -
bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Without taking sides here Uncle Bob, but surely if we told plod we will pay their costs and you keep them in the ground after the game and police it properly then that is all there is to it.
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That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.3
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ElfsborgAddick said:bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Without taking sides here Uncle Bob, but surely if we told plod we will pay their costs and you keep them in the ground after the game and police it properly then that is all there is to it.Plod tell us, not the other way around! What you are suggesting, nephew!, is akin to asking the police to act as paid mercenaries when it isn't what they want to do, or deem to be the safest option.Don't get me wrong - I believe they should have been held back, but neither I nor the club had the power to make that decision.3 -
thats right but THE POINT is that why does it only happen to us (TWICE) and /or with this set of police IN THIS FIXTURE? Christ, its not difficult to understand that this is THE fundamental point. And if we expose this decision for the UNIQUE (barring pedantry) decision that it is, then we have more chance of forcing them into a U turn. At the moment cast have just says its more normal to inconvenience away fans. NO !!! It's not more normal - its what happens EVERYWHERE else - THAT IS THE POINT!!! and once again, no, i don't care if it happened at palace - in the thousands of games that have happened over 100's of years, it is a F**KING UNIQUE decision !!!aliwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.1 -
bobmunro said:ElfsborgAddick said:bobmunro said:DOUCHER said:
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”Hardly pedantry is it - the fact that it is clearly not unique sort of destroys your question that you keep saying is the right question and hasn't been asked.They also did it when we played Palace in the cup a few years ago when we had to leave via a different direction - absolutely not unique is it?What happens inside the ground is down to the club (including the gate incident) - what happens outside the ground is at the direction of the police and on that they were insistent - and there is nothing you, me, CAST, the Club or anyone else can do to refuse to abide by the police's direction.
Without taking sides here Uncle Bob, but surely if we told plod we will pay their costs and you keep them in the ground after the game and police it properly then that is all there is to it.Plod tell us, not the other way around! What you are suggesting, nephew!, is akin to asking the police to act as paid mercenaries when it isn't what they want to do, or deem to be the safest option.Don't get me wrong - I believe they should have been held back, but neither I nor the club had the power to make that decision.A bit like the protests atm
Annnnyyyyway, on the basis we'll be playing them next season, I can see Charlton losing a few thousand fans for this game as they will not want to be treated like s*** again.With all the posts I think 99.9% of us can agree the arrangements were a shambles and the aftermath has not been dealt with very well.
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Are Met really saying they can't control 3000 Millwall fans in a stadium? If this is the case why are we allowing 3000 Millwall fans even into the Valley, its clearly total rubbish from the Policealiwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.
Club just needs to pay for police in the away stand £62 PH V Steward £12-15 PH, reduce allocation, club to charge Millwall fans max ticket price (under EFL rules) If alcohol is sold in away end then ban it & if needs must have a 11.30am KO & bit extreme but reduce to 1000-1500 Millwall & coach them as has happened when Millwall played away at Leeds, pompey at Saints away. We hardly get great treatment at The Den only 2000 tkts & kept in for 45 mins?
Where is the shy Millwall fan who had so much to say before hand the ficture? Can't Millwall fan confirm what happens at Millwall away matches so we have context.1 -
TootingRedArmy said:
Are Met really saying they can't control 3000 Millwall fans in a stadium? If this is the case why are we allowing 3000 Millwall fans even into the Valley, its clearly total rubbish from the Policealiwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP
Club just needs to pay for police in the away stand £62 PH V Steward £12-15 PH, reduce allocation, club to charge Millwall fans max ticket price (under EFL rules) If alcohol is sold in away end then ban it & if needs must have a 11.30am KO if with 1000-1500 Millwall & very extreme but it happens to Millwall at Leeds bus them in. We hardly get great treatment atThe Den only 2000 tkts & kept in for 45 mins?
Where is the shy Millwall fan who had so much to say before hand who could help confirm what happens at Millwall away matches so we have context.
A morning kick off would be a good idea to eliminate a lot of the drinking.
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Agreed, and police to police Millwall fans next time not sit in vans.0
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Not easy consuming coffee and doughnuts standing up.TootingRedArmy said:Agreed, and police to police Millwall fans next time not sit in vans.1 -
It kicked off at 12.30.ElfsborgAddick said:TootingRedArmy said:aliwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.
TOOTING REDARMY: Are Met really saying they can't control 3000 Millwall fans in a stadium? If this is the case why are we allowing 3000 Millwall fans even into the Valley, its clearly total rubbish from the Police
Club just needs to pay for police in the away stand £62 PH V Steward £12-15 PH, reduce allocation, club to charge Millwall fans max ticket price (under EFL rules) If alcohol is sold in away end then ban it & if needs must have a 11.30am KO if with 1000-1500 Millwall & very extreme but it happens to Millwall at Leeds bus them in. We hardly get great treatment atThe Den only 2000 tkts & kept in for 45 mins?
Where is the shy Millwall fan who had so much to say before hand who could help confirm what happens at Millwall away matches so we have context.
A morning kick off would be a good idea to eliminate a lot of the drinking.
What time do you think it should kick off?4 -
Covered End said:
It kicked off at 12.30.ElfsborgAddick said:TootingRedArmy said:aliwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.
TOOTING REDARMY: Are Met really saying they can't control 3000 Millwall fans in a stadium? If this is the case why are we allowing 3000 Millwall fans even into the Valley, its clearly total rubbish from the Police
Club just needs to pay for police in the away stand £62 PH V Steward £12-15 PH, reduce allocation, club to charge Millwall fans max ticket price (under EFL rules) If alcohol is sold in away end then ban it & if needs must have a 11.30am KO if with 1000-1500 Millwall & very extreme but it happens to Millwall at Leeds bus them in. We hardly get great treatment atThe Den only 2000 tkts & kept in for 45 mins?
Where is the shy Millwall fan who had so much to say before hand who could help confirm what happens at Millwall away matches so we have context.
A morning kick off would be a good idea to eliminate a lot of the drinking.
What time do you think it should kick off?
Unless rules have changed, can we not kick off games at 11.30? Every little helps on the cutting down of drinking before a high profile/potentially volatile game.
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The club have 0 control over KO time. It is selected by Sky. The police could probably overrule them but why would they bother? Anyone who wants to get drunk before the match will just start an hour earlier anywayElfsborgAddick said:Covered End said:
It kicked off at 12.30.ElfsborgAddick said:TootingRedArmy said:aliwibble said:That still relies on the Police agreeing to do it though. It's not like we can force them to deal with 3000 pissed off locked in Millwall fans when they'd prefer to just get shot of them ASAP.
TOOTING REDARMY: Are Met really saying they can't control 3000 Millwall fans in a stadium? If this is the case why are we allowing 3000 Millwall fans even into the Valley, its clearly total rubbish from the Police
Club just needs to pay for police in the away stand £62 PH V Steward £12-15 PH, reduce allocation, club to charge Millwall fans max ticket price (under EFL rules) If alcohol is sold in away end then ban it & if needs must have a 11.30am KO if with 1000-1500 Millwall & very extreme but it happens to Millwall at Leeds bus them in. We hardly get great treatment atThe Den only 2000 tkts & kept in for 45 mins?
Where is the shy Millwall fan who had so much to say before hand who could help confirm what happens at Millwall away matches so we have context.
A morning kick off would be a good idea to eliminate a lot of the drinking.
What time do you think it should kick off?
Unless rules have changed, can we not kick off games at 11.30? Every little helps on the cutting down of drinking before a high profile/potentially volatile game.3 -
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I have a spanner chum who has confirmed that when they are down at Fratton Park both sets of fans are let out together with no fuss.
If it can be done for a game like that surely it can be done in SE7.0 -
Celtic v Rangers is 12.00 & always on SKY
12.00 or a 12.30 KO does help cut down on fans who want a drink
Does the JS stand : Away end serve alcohol, if so the taps are easily switched off for Millwall match.
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BUT I am sure that it is heavily policed and fans are kept apart.TootingRedArmy said:Celtic v Rangers is 12.00 & always on SKY
12.00 or a 12.30 KO does help cut down on fans who want a drink
Does the JS stand : Away end serve alcohol, if so the taps are easily switched off for Millwall match.
For the past few seasons away supporters were banned.0 -
I couldn't find anything on when Millwall fans are held back but as we know its standard practise at the Den.....
Millwall v Watford — 3 March 2024 — supporter match report describes away fans being held in a tunnel/queue and only released after ~40 minutes. (fan blog). BHaPPY (not BSaD)
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Various reports about The Den’s routine — ground guides and multiple forum threads note that holding away fans for ~20–30 minutes after full-time is (or has been) routine at The Den to allow home supporters to disperse; several fans report being held for ~20–40 minutes at Millwall. These are generic site/visitor reports rather than match-by-match official logs. Football Ground Guide+1
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Fan forum / club-trust discussion (Charlton & others) — threads from 2024–2025 show fans complaining about being held back (or released together) at specific fixtures; these are eyewitness comments rather than formal statements. Examples include forum posts complaining about being held in pens and being released 20–30 minutes later. Charlton Life+1
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Ground-guide / away reports — multiple away-day writeups (e.g., reports of Middlesbrough away at Millwall) mention being held back for ~30 minutes as a normal procedure. Football Ground Guide
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Has been done for the last 30 years apart from the last 2 games - minor incidents only, certainly no more than happened pre game this timeElfsborgAddick said:I have a spanner chum who has confirmed that when they are down at Fratton Park both sets of fans are let out together with no fuss.
If it can be done for a game like that surely it can be done in SE7.2 -
Good ol' Danny 😆 -
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I really wish, @DOUCHER, that you’d stop taking pops at your fellow Charlton fans (CAST) because it detracts from the very good point that you are right to keep asserting; that (regardless of recent exceptions, all in London) it is highly irregular to hold back or divert home fans to assist away fans. And what’s more, this obviously ridiculous practice has the potential to create serious safety issues, as this thread has identified.
We are falling into the trap of thinking about this as “football fans”, i.e. a violence-prone underclass who do not deserve the same protection from the police ( our servants, whose salaries we pay) as normal citizens. We are normal citizens. The 20k Charlton fans who turned up represent virtually every part of British society and the vast majority of them just wanted to enjoy the footie with their families and friends, and had no desire whatsoever to engage with any Spanners, violent or otherwise. They should no more be kept back after the game than should opera-goers be held back while the surrounding pubs are emptied.
The police justification for this action is inadequate and in part objectively incorrect . We should now take this up with our respective MPs. We should stress the safety aspects and not be afraid to use the word “Hillsborough” when we do it. I hope CAST will do this with Matt Pennycook since he is ( still, I hope) a CAST member. I will write to my MP, Clive Efford. He is ironically a Spanner, but also a good guy with a track record of seeking the best for footie fans. I’d urge everyone else with MPs in Charlton’s catchment area to do the same.
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They didn't do it to assist the away fans.
They did it to get them out of the area asap with the least possible engagement.2 -
Clive Efford now represents the "Prague West" ward does he? Well I never!9
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What happened pre match ?DOUCHER said:
Has been done for the last 30 years apart from the last 2 games - minor incidents only, certainly no more than happened pre game this timeElfsborgAddick said:I have a spanner chum who has confirmed that when they are down at Fratton Park both sets of fans are let out together with no fuss.
If it can be done for a game like that surely it can be done in SE7.0
