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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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Too busy being racist and misogynistic to police properly, ladies and gentlemen, your MET police force
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgq06d44jyo0 -
“The match commander was not aware of any horse charges which requires his authority which he didn't give. Are we sure they were charging at crowds as oppose to moving through as a matter of course?"shirty5 said:Oh do fuck off - as if people can't tell the difference. The whole response is an absolute piss take.2 -
Yes, I said that the day after the match.WSS said:The bonkers thing is the only way they'd rethink is if next time "we" become the aggressors and cause trouble.1 -
Cov leading Spanners4
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They probably have their own definition as to what constitutes a charge. Think Miners strike in the 80s - that's a charge. The Light Brigade - that's a charge.Gillis said:
“The match commander was not aware of any horse charges which requires his authority which he didn't give. Are we sure they were charging at crowds as oppose to moving through as a matter of course?"shirty5 said:Oh do fuck off - as if people can't tell the difference. The whole response is an absolute piss take.
Some idiot on a horse trotting towards people at pace - can't be a "charge" because it wasn't authorised.5 -
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So in summary police response is we'd rather prioritise a bunch of c***s over mainly law abiding citizens as that's easier for us to deal with. And we'll continue do that. Now, let's send an armed unit to arrest a comedian who may have said something transphobic.
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CAST report said 297 police were used for Millwall match, Met reponse doesn't explian how they were used or why they can't control 3000 football fans when all they have to do is keep them in a stadium.
CHAT GPT .....Maybe someone with knowledge of Met policing costs knows if this estimate is accurate or not?Key components / assumptions
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297 police officers, plus a dozen mounted horses (so 12 horse units, each with rider/officer).
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Match starts at 3pm. Let’s assume policing duties run from 1pm to 6pm (so 5 hours) to cover pre-match, entry, match, and dispersal.
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Officers will mostly be constables / sergeants (some mix), but to simplify, assume a blended rate per officer per hour.
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Mounted units have extra costs (the horse, maintenance, etc.).
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Include overtime / “unsocial hours” premiums as match time is weekend/afternoon which may attract premiums; but we’ll simplify somewhat.
Rough cost estimate
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Cost of officers (without horses):
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297 officers × assume £62/hour (blended cost) × 5 hours =
297 × 62 × 5 = £92,070
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Cost of mounted units (horses + riders):
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12 horses × assume £170/day (for horse) → £170 × 12 = £2,040 (this seems low, but that’s the hire/horse cost in film unit rate; real event cost may be higher).
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Plus riders (these are police officers) – 12 riders × £62/hr × 5 hrs = 12 × 62 × 5 = £3,720
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So mounted part = ≈ £5,760 (horse + rider)
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Combined gross cost:
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Officers (297) = ~ £92,070
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Horses + riders = ~ £5,760
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Total ≈ £97,830
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Add overheads / premiums / miscellaneous:
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Overtime / unsocial hours / travel / equipment / supervision might add say 20-40% on top.
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If we use +30%, that adds ~ £29,350, bringing total to about £127,000
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I presume someone at club does maths Policeman = £62 per hr v steward £11.50 -£13.50 ph
thinks ok we can have 4 stewards for price of one policeman
but surely 1 policeman is more effective than 4 stewards on low wages who are not trained to deal with aggressive fans or make arrests?So it’s reasonable that Charlton match stewards are paid somewhere in the range of £11.50 to £13.50 per hour depending on:
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Whether they have qualifications (Spectator Safety Level 2 / NVQ, etc)
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Whether they have SIA licensing or extra responsibilities (e.g. gates, crowd control, supervising other stewards, emergency trained)
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The shift length / whether pre-match or post-match work is included / overtime or weekend premium.
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0-4 now....5
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Their goal difference taking a battering!1
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Bless !Mendonca In Asdas said:Their goal difference taking a battering!1 -
Only beaten by both Sheffield clubsMendonca In Asdas said:Their goal difference taking a battering!0 -
Are we talking about the OB or Millwall here?BalladMan said:Too busy being racist and misogynistic to police properly, ladies and gentlemen, your MET police force
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgq06d44jyo2 -
Problem with reducing their allocation is more scum would be in the home ends and we know plenty can’t stfu and we have no stewards or old bill in the ground to control this properly .
Charlton fans do bring them in and are as much to blame as any.If I had a scum mate in our end he would know to shut up but too many punters are just too hard for that.
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Loyal supporters , there till the end .3k of Coventry in the just under 15k crowd
no doubt all leaving early to give the Coventry fans a quicker exit .
Nice floodlights though2 -
Reducing Millwall's Away allocation to 1.5-2K, would make policing the Away End easier, just keep them in for 45-60 mins till roads and railway station clear. It of course risks potentially a few more Millwall fans getting tickets in home section. If Millwall fans are ejected then their tickets could be traced and the home fan who bought their tickets could have their season ticket revoked or something?
Why anyone would do this is beyond me, I often meet with fans of opposition before matches but they head to Away end, no way do i want them sat with me. Thats for some bright spark to work out at Charlton.........
Seems simple but clearly isn't just for some Met police (£62 ph) to be inside the Away end versus stewards (£12-15ph) most who seem like college kids on min wage who simply aren't trained in crowd control and dealing with agressive supporters. It can't be that difficult, to organise a combo of police and stewards to be in Jimmy Seed, with police outside if needed?
What is interesting is no one knows what 297 police actually did at Millwall match (CAST Letter) sounds from the incident at pub that alot just sat in a fleet of vans....But hey that's how MET..."police London" screaming around our city in vans, police cars and unmarked cars with blue lights & sirens blaring....when was last time you saw actually saw police officers on the street on patrol? No wonder its wild west out there in some parts of the capital with phone theft, shop lifting, drug dealing, assaults etc as the sheriff's gone missing......0 -
The streets aren't safe enough for the police to walk on.TootingRedArmy said:Reducing Millwall's Away allocation to 1.5-2K, would make policing the Away End easier, just keep them in for 45-60 mins till roads and railway station clear. It of course risks potentially a few more Millwall fans getting tickets in home section. If Millwall fans are ejected then their tickets could be traced and the home fan who bought their tickets could have their season ticket revoked or something?
Why anyone would do this is beyond me, I often meet with fans of opposition before matches but they head to Away end, no way do i want them sat with me. Thats for some bright spark to work out at Charlton.........
Seems simple but clearly isn't just for some Met police (£62 ph) to be inside the Away end versus stewards (£12-15ph) most who seem like college kids on min wage who simply aren't trained in crowd control and dealing with agressive supporters. It can't be that difficult, to organise a combo of police and stewards to be in Jimmy Seed, with police outside if needed?
What is interesting is no one knows what 297 police actually did at Millwall match (CAST Letter) sounds from the incident at pub that alot just sat in a fleet of vans....But hey that's how MET..."police London" screaming around our city in vans, police cars and unmarked cars with blue lights & sirens blaring....when was last time you saw actually saw police officers on the street on patrol? No wonder its wild west out there in some parts of the capital with phone theft, shop lifting, drug dealing, assaults etc as the sheriff's gone missing......
I used to work for UPS and had to do deliveries on the Aylesbury Estate and the OB and Royal Mail did not set foot on the Estate.0 -
stop perpetuating the myth that home fans bought them their tickets. you just had to be on the databaseTootingRedArmy said:Reducing Millwall's Away allocation to 1.5-2K, would make policing the Away End easier, just keep them in for 45-60 mins till roads and railway station clear. It of course risks potentially a few more Millwall fans getting tickets in home section. If Millwall fans are ejected then their tickets could be traced and the home fan who bought their tickets could have their season ticket revoked or something?
Why anyone would do this is beyond me, I often meet with fans of opposition before matches but they head to Away end, no way do i want them sat with me. Thats for some bright spark to work out at Charlton.........
Seems simple but clearly isn't just for some Met police (£62 ph) to be inside the Away end versus stewards (£12-15ph) most who seem like college kids on min wage who simply aren't trained in crowd control and dealing with agressive supporters. It can't be that difficult, to organise a combo of police and stewards to be in Jimmy Seed, with police outside if needed?
What is interesting is no one knows what 297 police actually did at Millwall match (CAST Letter) sounds from the incident at pub that alot just sat in a fleet of vans....But hey that's how MET..."police London" screaming around our city in vans, police cars and unmarked cars with blue lights & sirens blaring....when was last time you saw actually saw police officers on the street on patrol? No wonder its wild west out there in some parts of the capital with phone theft, shop lifting, drug dealing, assaults etc as the sheriff's gone missing......0 -
You really think that didn't happen?MrOneLung said:
stop perpetuating the myth that home fans bought them their tickets. you just had to be on the databaseTootingRedArmy said:Reducing Millwall's Away allocation to 1.5-2K, would make policing the Away End easier, just keep them in for 45-60 mins till roads and railway station clear. It of course risks potentially a few more Millwall fans getting tickets in home section. If Millwall fans are ejected then their tickets could be traced and the home fan who bought their tickets could have their season ticket revoked or something?
Why anyone would do this is beyond me, I often meet with fans of opposition before matches but they head to Away end, no way do i want them sat with me. Thats for some bright spark to work out at Charlton.........
Seems simple but clearly isn't just for some Met police (£62 ph) to be inside the Away end versus stewards (£12-15ph) most who seem like college kids on min wage who simply aren't trained in crowd control and dealing with agressive supporters. It can't be that difficult, to organise a combo of police and stewards to be in Jimmy Seed, with police outside if needed?
What is interesting is no one knows what 297 police actually did at Millwall match (CAST Letter) sounds from the incident at pub that alot just sat in a fleet of vans....But hey that's how MET..."police London" screaming around our city in vans, police cars and unmarked cars with blue lights & sirens blaring....when was last time you saw actually saw police officers on the street on patrol? No wonder its wild west out there in some parts of the capital with phone theft, shop lifting, drug dealing, assaults etc as the sheriff's gone missing......1 -
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Not a myth. The 4 spanners mentioned earlier were got their tickets from a Charlton season ticket holder.MrOneLung said:
stop perpetuating the myth that home fans bought them their tickets. you just had to be on the databaseTootingRedArmy said:Reducing Millwall's Away allocation to 1.5-2K, would make policing the Away End easier, just keep them in for 45-60 mins till roads and railway station clear. It of course risks potentially a few more Millwall fans getting tickets in home section. If Millwall fans are ejected then their tickets could be traced and the home fan who bought their tickets could have their season ticket revoked or something?
Why anyone would do this is beyond me, I often meet with fans of opposition before matches but they head to Away end, no way do i want them sat with me. Thats for some bright spark to work out at Charlton.........
Seems simple but clearly isn't just for some Met police (£62 ph) to be inside the Away end versus stewards (£12-15ph) most who seem like college kids on min wage who simply aren't trained in crowd control and dealing with agressive supporters. It can't be that difficult, to organise a combo of police and stewards to be in Jimmy Seed, with police outside if needed?
What is interesting is no one knows what 297 police actually did at Millwall match (CAST Letter) sounds from the incident at pub that alot just sat in a fleet of vans....But hey that's how MET..."police London" screaming around our city in vans, police cars and unmarked cars with blue lights & sirens blaring....when was last time you saw actually saw police officers on the street on patrol? No wonder its wild west out there in some parts of the capital with phone theft, shop lifting, drug dealing, assaults etc as the sheriff's gone missing......
I work with one of them and he said they return the favour.
And i should add. Reducing their allocation will lead to more of them making a point of getting in our ends and letting everyone know about it.1 -
"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!
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Exactly, the trains is not really an issue.cafc999 said:"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!
They live among us 😳4 -
We need to keep pressing for this nonsense to be overturned but its quite possible we won't be playing them next year - they are poor and starting to realise it - where are you Millwall fan, you seem to have disappeared the last few weeks?1
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barely any of them were actually travelling back to Bermondsey, all back to Eltham/Welling and into Kent....that's the ridiculous side of itcafc999 said:"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!5 -
It's called bull****.Elthamaddick said:
barely any of them were actually travelling back to Bermondsey, all back to Eltham/Welling and into Kent....that's the ridiculous side of itcafc999 said:"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!0 -
The police seem to think they all live 5 minutes walk from the denElfsborgAddick said:
It's called bull****.Elthamaddick said:
barely any of them were actually travelling back to Bermondsey, all back to Eltham/Welling and into Kent....that's the ridiculous side of itcafc999 said:"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!2 -
Didn’t you know that if you say you support Millwall, you’re immediately a hard man?Elthamaddick said:
barely any of them were actually travelling back to Bermondsey, all back to Eltham/Welling and into Kent....that's the ridiculous side of itcafc999 said:"The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."
They live down the road lads!2 -
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”2 -
i'm quite satisfied they have not asked THE right question and have been since the outset - they may not answer that either but if u don't ask it, you definitely won't get an answer 'what is unique about this fixture that means they don't do what is done at every other fixture / ground in the country - and did the same 5 years ago?' (and for the pedants, i know they did it at palace as well just after and that's wrong as well)aliwibble said:
No, they're doing their best to get answers on our behalf, but there is only so much that they can do when the Police are absolutely convinced that they got it right. You could do a Jeremy Paxman and sit there repeatedly saying "But why didn't you keep them behind when that's what happens at every other ground?" and the Police will still keep saying the same thing.DOUCHER said:
Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions?Dippenhall said:
Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.KDOUCHER said:My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.
It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questionsDo you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”3
