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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45

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  • doronron
    doronron
    Redrobo said:
    If the police can’t handle 3000 Millwall fans, we should reduce ticket sales to how many they can.
    Sales should also be restricted to their Club members.
    But won't they then reduce our allocation at there ground 
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick
    TootingRedArmy said:
    paulsturgess said:
    doronron said:
    Redrobo said:
    If the police can’t handle 3000 Millwall fans, we should reduce ticket sales to how many they can.
    Sales should also be restricted to their Club members.
    But won't they then reduce our allocation at there ground 
    We already have a reduced allocation at their ground (Vs what they could accommodate) because police reduced it so they are comfortable they can handle it. They should do the same with Scum. We are only obliged to offer them 2,000 tickets. 
    Next season Millwall should be offered 2000 tickets maximum & charge maximum ticket price under EFL rules & Charlton pay for Met police to be inside JS stand, not a bunch of students: stewards in high vis jackets. Keep them back for an hour chanting " No One Likes us we don't care" to an empty Valley, show them "Yes we don't like You!"
    This would mean upping the price for home fans in the CE Lower
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    TootingRedArmy said:
    paulsturgess said:
    doronron said:
    Redrobo said:
    If the police can’t handle 3000 Millwall fans, we should reduce ticket sales to how many they can.
    Sales should also be restricted to their Club members.
    But won't they then reduce our allocation at there ground 
    We already have a reduced allocation at their ground (Vs what they could accommodate) because police reduced it so they are comfortable they can handle it. They should do the same with Scum. We are only obliged to offer them 2,000 tickets. 
    Next season Millwall should be offered 2000 tickets maximum & charged maximum ticket price under EFL rules & Charlton pay for Met police to be inside JS stand, not a bunch of students: stewards in high vis jackets. Keep them back for an hour chanting " No One Likes us we don't care" to an empty Valley, show them "Yes we don't like You!"
    I would give them the full allocation to help us pay the costs.

  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy
    edited October 1
    How much does it cost the club for stewards and safety team at a high risk home game like Millwall? Its mad if its right that police outside the ground don't cost the club but within the stadium Charlton pay for the police.
    What is the cost of a policeman  V cost of a steward inside the Valley? 
    Also if Millwall were to kick off and cause trouble in the Away End, surely if some of alleged 297 police who worked on the match were outside the Away end, parked up in road behind in vans then bought into ground does that trigger a cost? 
    Its a bit like a pub with private bouncers on the door, if a fight kicks off and police enter they deal with it make arrests etc but this doesn't cost the landlord so why would it cost a football club if police outside the ground were bought in if trouble started?
    The police standing by the control box between JS + WS why can't they stand in JS stand? 
    "IF" we lowered Millwall's allocation to 2000 (matching our allocation at The Den) charged Millwall max ticket price (EFL rules), used some police officers inside the Away Stand replacing some of students /stewards this surely would help offset some costs. The policing and stewarding is supposed to create a safe stadium, keeping Millwall in till all home fans have left area and onto trains might also encourage more Home ticket sales. Who knows?
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown
    edited October 1
    PragueAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    The SAG wouldn’t necessarily meet before each match. There is a meeting between the club and the police before each game and there should be a meeting of senior staff, or was in the past.
    Is the SAG a Council- run group? Because if so it is subject to FOI law, and I will be more than happy to request the minutes of any meeting that covered this game and any subsequent correspondence between public bodies involved. And on WhatDoTheyKnow.com so that everyone can see what the reply is. Of course any Met meeting  with the club is subject to FOI law too, but based on previous experience the Met will take the piss with that.
    It’s a council convened committee; the council is the licensing authority. It doesn’t make operational decisions (how many police, etc) but it can set requirements for games to go ahead. In practice, the police decide (and the fire and ambulance as appropriate) and the council agrees. 
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy
    edited October 1
    Airman Brown said:
    PragueAddick said:
    Airman Brown said:
    The SAG wouldn’t necessarily meet before each match. There is a meeting between the club and the police before each game and there should be a meeting of senior staff, or was in the past.
    Is the SAG a Council- run group? Because if so it is subject to FOI law, and I will be more than happy to request the minutes of any meeting that covered this game and any subsequent correspondence between public bodies involved. And on WhatDoTheyKnow.com so that everyone can see what the reply is. Of course any Met meeting  with the club is subject to FOI law too, but based on previous experience the Met will take the piss with that.
    It’s a council convened committee; the council is the licensing authority. It doesn’t make operational decisions (how many police, etc) but it can set requirements for games to go ahead. In practice, the police decide (and the fire and ambulance as appropriate) and the council agrees. 
    what are costs of steward v Policeman inside The Valley and who decides numbers needed? 
    persume there are rates for steward & police per person
    also if 297 were on duty for Millwall match what was the Budget and cost for policing to tax payers?
    If police have to come into Valley if there is a disturbance does this trigger a cost to the club? 
    The police milling around the control box does club pay them to chat and watch the game? 
  • KBslittlesis
    KBslittlesis
    No idea how much the costs are now tbh.
    We used to charge per serial (van load).
    The cost to the taxpayer is the same as if those officers were deployed elsewhere as it’s a tour of duty.
    If extra serials are required inside the ground, that use to be charged to the club (again it’s a long time since I did this).
    Those officers already in the ground are placed there until needed. If they aren’t deployed where incidents occur (like the issue between the south stand & the Curbs stand gate post Millwall) then there has either been a breakdown in communication between the control room and the stewards on that gate or someone in the control room decided they weren’t needed.
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£
    edited October 1
    When you look at it the police (and the club to a certain extent), will look upon this as a success and I’m convinced they won’t change things for future Spanners fixtures.
    As far as I know there were no arrests, although the incident at Gate21 should surely be worthy of further investigation…..what’s happening with that one?
    With a bit of minor tweaking by informing all Addicks ‘exactly’ what will take place in future, I think things should be fine, though somewhat inconvenient for most of us.
    That said, I strongly believe that The Spanners should be kept locked in for 45 minutes after the final whistle.
    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
    Let them know what will happen before they purchase their tickets…..then they can hardly complain.
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  • shirty5
    shirty5
    https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/police-respond-to-millwall-questions/
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER
    My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers. They also referred to specific train time issues on the day. Were they happening 5 years ago as well? 

    It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questions - they refer to advising the club on signage so looks like they are planning on doing this next time - as i say, ask the wrong questions, u get the wrong outcome - absolute rubbish from CAST, the police and the club.   
  • Off_it
    Off_it
    blackpool72 said:
    shirty5 said:
    https://www.castrust.org/2025/10/police-respond-to-millwall-questions/
    What a load of tosh.

    Letting Millwall fan's out 1st and redirecting Charlton fan's was the only viable option. 

    Well how come holding the away fan's back for 30 odd minutes works perfectly well the length and breadth of the country but it can't work at Charlton. 

    Old bill believe this was a perfect success and will continue to do similar in future,  all because they don't want to have to confront Millwall fan's being held back.

    Total cop out if you ask me.
    Yep, spot on. It's there in black and white - it "worked" before so they decided to do it again and it "worked" this time. Which all means that they will roll it out every time we play them from now on. Laughable.

    What next? The Old Bill decide that as we are such a pushover maybe they should keep home fans locked in the ground until the away fans are safely home and tucked up in bed? Or maybe they think this lot are such a risk they should probably insist on home fans being banned from attending altogether, for their own safety, and so there's even less risk of those nasty Millwall bounders playing up at all?

    So, same again next time folks .............. unless in the meantime we start burning cars and punching police horses after every home game!
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER
    What are the options?:

    1) CAST respond with a better, more specific set of questions ?
    2) We continue to complain to the police individually
    3) We ignore the police and break police lines when let out and go our normal way
    4) We hope the fans forum get the club on board to change the police decision and stump up whatever police cost are needed if that is a factor.
    5) Millwall are bussed in and out like they are for the likes of their Leeds games
    6) Millwall are held back for half hour 
    7) We're all let out together - never been more than the odd skirmish in 40 years
    8) We complain to MP, Independent Police Complaints thing, who else?
    9) Ignore it and take it up the arse from the Police and Millwall

    Suggestions welcomed 

  • timken
    timken
    After the blackburn game .after the horse has bolted
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick
    I am not going to bother wasting my time reading the stuff from plod.
    I may be well off the mark but all we have to do is to get plod inside the ground and pay the relevant costs.
    ALL that matters is the safety and the welfare of the Charlton fans, we must take priority in this as it is OUR HOME game.
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  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick
    those responses are an absolute load of shite - written by someone who 'can't be bothered' to engage
  • Hartleypete
    Hartleypete
    Old bill proving once again that they are fucking useless lying twats.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER
    TootingRedArmy said:
    Unbelievable but sadly Believable....Polices response....

    "It was deemed far quicker and safer to get 3000 away than 20000 home fans. The time we would have had to hold Millwall inside the stadium would have been excessive and disproportionate with the train issues."

    So Police commander is saying 297 police which were on duty couldn't control 3000 Millwall fans, really? .....So @ 7K police controlled 2million at Notting Hill Carnival, @ 1K Police controlled 150,000 at the Tommy Robinson march? 
    Insulting, embarrassing and frankly pathetic.....
    CAST & Club should go back saying not happy and 20,000 Home fans are the priority 
    Club can help by reducing Millwall Away allocation to 2K, consider bussing them to away end like what happens when Millwall play Leeds away & recently when  Pompey  played away at Southampton. 
    What happened this year shouldn't stand as the blue print for future fixtures.why should Millwalls behaviour and reputation win, what sort of message does this send to football fans. 
    I know i've banged on but this all boils down to the fact that they weren't asked what made this and the game 5 years earlier so unique that they couldn't do what happens at every other game regardless of how high risk or otherwise, it might be? The answer is nothing and there ends the debate and the reason why the decision is wrong, is not in keeping with what happens everywhere else and was not made for any reason other than they thought it was the easiest thing to do rather than the right thing to do.  
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall
    KDOUCHER said:
    My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.

    It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questions 
    Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.  

    Do you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”
  • MartinCAFC
    MartinCAFC
    Quite laughable really.

    Wait until we’re held back at The Den for an hour no doubt it will have been seen as safer to hold back our 2k rather than there 18k.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER
    Dippenhall said:
    KDOUCHER said:
    My take on that: They were never asked what specific problems were anticipated over and above those you would normally expect at a local derby and therefore were able to fudge the answers.

    It's an absolute joke and CAST have allowed them off the hook by not asking the right questions 
    Not even David Frost asking the “right questions” would have elicited any response different to “we assessed the situation and came to the correct decision”.  

    Do you really think he would respond by saying “OK you got me there, I am obviously lying and we got it all wrong.”
    Rubbish - On that basis, you're suggesting cast are just going through the motions? 
  • TootingRedArmy
    TootingRedArmy
    edited October 1

    What a surprise MET kicked the can down the road rather than own up that mistakes were made and come up with B****S**** reply and  excuses. If Police can't control 3000 Millwall fans then they aren't fit for purpose.....
    Insulting and pathetic that 297 police couldn't control 3K Millwall fans 
    Question why do we want JS filled with 3K Millwall?
    Why don't we just restrict Millwall to 1K or 2K max, bus them in and treated them like other clubs do...Let them know what it means "No One Likes Us we don't care"....WE DON'T CARE!!! 
    if it means tic for tac for our visit to the Den so be it.....
    I've experienced it enough times being held for 45 mins in the Den.
    Don't award bad behaviour and show Charlton fans some respect.
  • KBslittlesis
    KBslittlesis
    I keep saying it but football policing isn’t a priority……….until it is.
    They didn’t deal with Millwall……..until there was a riot.
    Something always has to happen before anything chances, it has been forever thus.
    I hate it, I tried my best to change it, sorry.
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones
    I have read and digested this weighty thread backwards and forwards, front to back, page by page, taking notes, and generally contemplating life, and the bigger questions, like "what are we doing here", "is there a devine creator", and have come to the conclusion that Millwall are absolute cnuts!

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