That first touch from Bree - that bit of quality - won us the game
Followed by the inch perfect cross, which none of our other wing backs seem capable of, sadly. I would keep him in the side for that reason.
It was a perfect cross. Think that's harsh on Apter though, he's put in some brilliant crosses so far this season, which those in the box have not made the most of.
Edwards would have had an assist too had Leaburn scored when he hit the bar.
Could we maybe get an experienced ex pro like Simon Church in to coach Tanto 1 on 1?
I have to be honest and say Churchies movement and the way he dropped off off defenders was first class, it was why he found himself with so many chances but then oh dear no eye for goal.
I hadn't looked at the table in much detail, apart from knowing where we are and who are the current bottom three.
Obviously we're only 6 games in, but a great feeling to see we are currently above the likes of Southampton, Ipswich (do have game in hand), Norwich, Derby, and Sheffield United. That's a lot of talent and money who have not started as well as us.
A long, long way to go, yet proud of this group of players to have fitted in to Championship life so quickly, and it's clear we're only going to get better.
when i see them below (being a pessimist) i think well most if not all of them will finish the season above us so in a fake hope position . 21st I'd take right here and now
I hadn't looked at the table in much detail, apart from knowing where we are and who are the current bottom three.
Obviously we're only 6 games in, but a great feeling to see we are currently above the likes of Southampton, Ipswich (do have game in hand), Norwich, Derby, and Sheffield United. That's a lot of talent and money who have not started as well as us.
A long, long way to go, yet proud of this group of players to have fitted in to Championship life so quickly, and it's clear we're only going to get better.
when i see them below (being a pessimist) i think well most if not all of them will finish the season above us so in a fake hope position . 21st I'd take right here and now
Sheff United have Oxford up next in a game that is already a marker for what’s going on at the bottom. I think Wilder will steer them comfortably to safety. Sheff Wednesday don’t look like they will be as certain for relegation as some have thought they would be, unless there’s a points deduction coming their way. We can’t rely on that.
No outstanding teams in the Championship based on the evidence of the early games. If we continue being as solid defensively we should stay up comfortably- can't see us scoring many.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
He's only disappointed really in the context of not yet scoring?
But the team are creating so few chances and Kelman has barely had a clear cut opportunity.
He proved at Orient last season he could finish. But he was then getting a regular supply of chances created for him to convert. No striker scores much without a service.
Also the way NJ sets up the team and the constant pressing role he demands of Kelman.
He works hard with good movement, and decent touch. Give him time.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
No chance of that, he is doing more and more of what NJ wants as he gets used to the system. We haven't seen any of the strops we saw at the end of May's time here. Kelman seems willing to be a bit of a sponge and soak in what NJ wants him to do and he's slowly getting there
I hadn't looked at the table in much detail, apart from knowing where we are and who are the current bottom three.
Obviously we're only 6 games in, but a great feeling to see we are currently above the likes of Southampton, Ipswich (do have game in hand), Norwich, Derby, and Sheffield United. That's a lot of talent and money who have not started as well as us.
A long, long way to go, yet proud of this group of players to have fitted in to Championship life so quickly, and it's clear we're only going to get better.
when i see them below (being a pessimist) i think well most if not all of them will finish the season above us so in a fake hope position . 21st I'd take right here and now
Sheff United have Oxford up next in a game that is already a marker for what’s going on at the bottom. I think Wilder will steer them comfortably to safety. Sheff Wednesday don’t look like they will be as certain for relegation as some have thought they would be, unless there’s a points deduction coming their way. We can’t rely on that.
Sheff Weds have literally zero squad depth, this period of the season is probably where they will be strongest but once the games and injuries start stacking up they will struggle
I hadn't looked at the table in much detail, apart from knowing where we are and who are the current bottom three.
Obviously we're only 6 games in, but a great feeling to see we are currently above the likes of Southampton, Ipswich (do have game in hand), Norwich, Derby, and Sheffield United. That's a lot of talent and money who have not started as well as us.
A long, long way to go, yet proud of this group of players to have fitted in to Championship life so quickly, and it's clear we're only going to get better.
when i see them below (being a pessimist) i think well most if not all of them will finish the season above us so in a fake hope position . 21st I'd take right here and now
Sheff United have Oxford up next in a game that is already a marker for what’s going on at the bottom. I think Wilder will steer them comfortably to safety. Sheff Wednesday don’t look like they will be as certain for relegation as some have thought they would be, unless there’s a points deduction coming their way. We can’t rely on that.
Sheff Weds have literally zero squad depth, this period of the season is probably where they will be strongest but once the games and injuries start stacking up they will struggle
If Bannan gets a long term injury, that could be their hopes of staying up done for.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Looking at the stats, it’s a bit easier from the bench (though Leaburn has also started games) but Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season. I also remember in Leaburns breakthrough season this was a strength of his. Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
Maybe it’s Leaburn’s fitness or just that Jones prefers the impact he can make from the bench, but I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts. Kelman just isn’t doing anywhere near enough to impact the game
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season.
Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts.
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Looking at the stats, it’s a bit easier from the bench (though Leaburn has also started games) but Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season. I also remember in Leaburns breakthrough season this was a strength of his. Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
Maybe it’s Leaburn’s fitness or just that Jones prefers the impact he can make from the bench, but I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts. Kelman just isn’t doing anywhere near enough to impact the game
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
That isn't how pressing works, it isn't about physical battles at all
edited with even better image. huge gaping goal to aim at to GKs right, or the roof of the net, but that's going straight at the keepers body. that's not where you should be aiming for!!
really he should be flicking that up and bicycling it in to the top right. Really poor from him. Doesn't make the next match day squad for me
Exactly, i believe he had time to balance the ball on his nose, showboat for at least a minute, fending off the keeper and three on rushing defenders, before nonchalantly and defly heading it in!
Poor show from the lad.
The jest with which you post these should highlight how stupid it is to suggest that with the game in the last minute the best thing to do was try and showboat by nutmegging the goalie!
Arent strikers taught to aim between the legs and low on oneon ones? Finish was perfect
some of us have had to reconcile that we didn’t make it as footballers due to our own lack of natural ability, but at least you can blame somebody else for your failure - your coaches!
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
Really think Leaburn’s off the ball back is underestimated by many because of his stature / slower acceleration . I think he fights incredibly hard for the ball. That tackle on the floor he made to intercept against Millwall was excellent. He just looks different to a little terrier like Godden nipping around.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season.
Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts.
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
It’s probably a bit of both of those reasons. I think we are nearing the point though where it’s hard to justify him starting over Leaburn.
It’s obvious from watching the games but in basically every stat Leaburn is amongst the best strikers in the championship and Kelman is amongst the worst. Neither have scored yet but I’d rather have on the pitch for longer the guy that’s winning duels and aerial duels, winning the ball back high up the pitch, dribbling better, getting more touches, more passes, winning more fouls and having more shots. Kelman is doing none of these things, there’s been some ok link up play against Millwall but he’s basically a passenger in this team at the moment. Maybe he will have more joy from the bench when the game has opened up more
If his performances don’t improve I could see him struggling to get minutes once Godden returns and if everyone else stays fit
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
not true imo. Joined the team slightly later in pre-season, one of many new faces, most of which have had to take a step up in the level they’re now competing at, and we’re 6 games in. He may not have shown much in the first 4, but in the last 2 games he has worked incredibly hard and put a shift in, and I would say is starting to settle. I would argue using terms like ‘no doubt’ is overly harsh and too final. For some of us, he hasn’t disappointed
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
not true imo. Joined the team slightly later in pre-season, one of many new faces, most of which have had to take a step up in the level they’re now competing at, and we’re 6 games in. He may not have shown much in the first 4, but in the last 2 games he has worked incredibly hard and put a shift in, and I would say is starting to settle. I would argue using terms like ‘no doubt’ is overly harsh and too final. For some of us, he hasn’t disappointed
He’s had 2 shots in 6 appearances. My expectations for him were lower than most but even I’m disappointed
It’s obviously still early days and plenty of time tturn it around. But it’s definitely been disappointing
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Looking at the stats, it’s a bit easier from the bench (though Leaburn has also started games) but Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season. I also remember in Leaburns breakthrough season this was a strength of his. Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
Maybe it’s Leaburn’s fitness or just that Jones prefers the impact he can make from the bench, but I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts. Kelman just isn’t doing anywhere near enough to impact the game
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
That isn't how pressing works, it isn't about physical battles at all
It relies on the threat of a physical battle. If the opponent in possession knows he can safely ignore any physical challenge, he is freer to go about his business.
Watch how Ramsay, and sometimes Jones, allow the opponent to approach them and challenge for the ball, because they are confident they can shrug them off and have better angles for passing or clearing.
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
Actually think that Leaburn is the one who may fall into that category. Kelman is pressing at the front really well. Eventually that will pay off in goals. Miles is not a presser. He may work as a finisher but I doubt he will start many games, the way NJ sets the team up.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Looking at the stats, it’s a bit easier from the bench (though Leaburn has also started games) but Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season. I also remember in Leaburns breakthrough season this was a strength of his. Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
Maybe it’s Leaburn’s fitness or just that Jones prefers the impact he can make from the bench, but I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts. Kelman just isn’t doing anywhere near enough to impact the game
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
That isn't how pressing works, it isn't about physical battles at all
It relies on the threat of a physical battle. If the opponent in possession knows he can safely ignore any physical challenge, he is freer to go about his business.
Watch how Ramsay, and sometimes Jones, allow the opponent to approach them and challenge for the ball, because they are confident they can shrug them off and have better angles for passing or clearing.
Ramsay is confident he can turn away from players because he has great close control and Jones always has the most passing options available to him.
For good pressing you don’t even need to always actually reach the defender in possession anyway. Really you’re forcing them into mistakes on the ball, usually a misplaced pass or causing them to panic and lose footing. Strikers who press AND put in physical challenges usually just give away soft free kicks
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season.
Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts.
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
I think it’s for another reason and it’s more sophisticated than what you’ve listed. NJ is taking Kelman off early in the second half, so both him and Leaburn are getting big chunks of the game. I think he seems them working in tandem, one after the other to try and disrupt the opposition defence, with their complete opposite styles. I also believe NJ is not expecting his strikers to score many goals. Buying a proven Championship goal scorer is beyond a newly promoted side (unless you are Wrexham/Birmingham), so emphasis is the defence. If you don’t concede, you don’t need prolific strikers. This is the system and changing it to suit just Kelman is not an option.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season.
Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts.
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
It’s probably a bit of both of those reasons. I think we are nearing the point though where it’s hard to justify him starting over Leaburn.
It’s obvious from watching the games but in basically every stat Leaburn is amongst the best strikers in the championship and Kelman is amongst the worst. Neither have scored yet but I’d rather have on the pitch for longer the guy that’s winning duels and aerial duels, winning the ball back high up the pitch, dribbling better, getting more touches, more passes, winning more fouls and having more shots. Kelman is doing none of these things, there’s been some ok link up play against Millwall but he’s basically a passenger in this team at the moment. Maybe he will have more joy from the bench when the game has opened up more
If his performances don’t improve I could see him struggling to get minutes once Godden returns and if everyone else stays fit
Kelman has been waiting since 9th August for a chance like the one Tanto scored on Saturday. Hopefully he will get a break soon start scoring and push on. Way too early to write him off. There is no doubt in my mind that had Godden been fit he would have started the season, with Kelman brought up to speed gradually from the bench.
I’d disagree with that, Leaburn is pretty good pressing from the front.
Leaburn has actually won the ball back in the final third per 90 minutes more than any other championship striker this season.
Kelman is yet to win the ball back in the final third once
I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts.
If Kelman tries to press a big defender he will just swat him off like a gnat. Different matter if you have 6'7" Leaburn pressing you.
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
It’s probably a bit of both of those reasons. I think we are nearing the point though where it’s hard to justify him starting over Leaburn.
It’s obvious from watching the games but in basically every stat Leaburn is amongst the best strikers in the championship and Kelman is amongst the worst. Neither have scored yet but I’d rather have on the pitch for longer the guy that’s winning duels and aerial duels, winning the ball back high up the pitch, dribbling better, getting more touches, more passes, winning more fouls and having more shots. Kelman is doing none of these things, there’s been some ok link up play against Millwall but he’s basically a passenger in this team at the moment. Maybe he will have more joy from the bench when the game has opened up more
If his performances don’t improve I could see him struggling to get minutes once Godden returns and if everyone else stays fit
Kelman has been waiting since 9th August for a chance like the one Tanto scored on Saturday. Hopefully he will get a break soon start scoring and push on. Way too early to write him off. There is no doubt in my mind that had Godden been fit he would have started the season, with Kelman brought up to speed gradually from the bench.
That’s the problem. With Kelman on the pitch in that role we create less chances because his all round game is so poor. If it was him on the pitch rather than Leaburn then he loses that first header and we don’t score the goal. He needs to be on the pitch with Leaburn/Godden or even with Tanto and then he can be the one getting the tap in at the back post
I think there’s a danger that Kelman falls into the Alfie May situation where he’s not the “team” player that Jones demands. Probably a learning curve for him to become the new Godden but there’s no doubt that Kelman has so far disappointed.
not true imo. Joined the team slightly later in pre-season, one of many new faces, most of which have had to take a step up in the level they’re now competing at, and we’re 6 games in. He may not have shown much in the first 4, but in the last 2 games he has worked incredibly hard and put a shift in, and I would say is starting to settle. I would argue using terms like ‘no doubt’ is overly harsh and too final. For some of us, he hasn’t disappointed
FWIW I think he will come good. We saw enough of what he can do last year to see he’s a goal scorer but when a club like Charlton splash a reported £3 million on a striker I think most of us, rightly or wrongly expected a bit more. The no doubt in my post refers to thus far not ever and I’ll stand by my point that so far he’s been a disappointment. Fitness maybe but that will only be an excuse for so long. At some point he’s got to look like scoring a goal. Saturday would be a good place to start.
I still can’t believe Patrick Bauer didn’t score with his first header in the 2019 final. Not good enough and doesn’t feel like a win that he had to pounce on a loose ball afterwards. Still embarrassed by it really.
Comments
21st I'd take right here and now
And Kelman having good movement and being a poacher, there's always the chance of him nicking a goal from a loose ball in the box.
Just my tuppence worth
But the team are creating so few chances and Kelman has barely had a clear cut opportunity.
He proved at Orient last season he could finish. But he was then getting a regular supply of chances created for him to convert. No striker scores much without a service.
Also the way NJ sets up the team and the constant pressing role he demands of Kelman.
He works hard with good movement, and decent touch.
Give him time.
Maybe it’s Leaburn’s fitness or just that Jones prefers the impact he can make from the bench, but I’m honestly surprised Kelman is still starting when Leaburn offered a lot more in his starts. Kelman just isn’t doing anywhere near enough to impact the game
There are two reasons why Kelman may still be starting.
1) Leaburn is still building his fitness and stamina and they are being ultra careful with him this time after previous misjudgments.
2) The management paid a lot of money for Kelman and are desperately hoping he will suddenly find some form, otherwise they will have a lot of egg on their faces.
I would emphasise that I think Kelman is a good player. But he needs the right system and playmates to function.
QPR rated him as an individual but found he did not fit their system.
Leyton Orient got the best out of him by pairing him with Donley. We do not have a Donley or anyone like him.
more passes, winning more fouls and having more shots. Kelman is doing none of these things, there’s been some ok link up play against Millwall but he’s basically a passenger in this team at the moment. Maybe he will have more joy from the bench when the game has opened up more
It’s obviously still early days and plenty of time tturn it around. But it’s definitely been disappointing
Absolute cinema.
Watch how Ramsay, and sometimes Jones, allow the opponent to approach them and challenge for the ball, because they are confident they can shrug them off and have better angles for passing or clearing.
For good pressing you don’t even need to always actually reach the defender in possession anyway. Really you’re forcing them into mistakes on the ball, usually a misplaced pass or causing them to panic and lose footing. Strikers who press AND put in physical challenges usually just give away soft free kicks
Hopefully he will get a break soon start scoring and push on. Way too early to write him off.
There is no doubt in my mind that had Godden been fit he would have started the season, with Kelman brought up to speed gradually from the bench.