I first became aware of Doc when he played for Shrewsbury against us at the Valley and he impressed me enough that I followed his career since then especially when I realised that we tried to sign him on loan from Rangers the following season.
Like George Dobson ( who had similarly impressed me playing for Walsall) I was delighted when he joined us.
I really felt yesterday he was superb and he is proving to be an astute captain and leader.
Fine margins in that middle though, if Doc would've been punished for giving the ball away easily we'd be having the complete opposite discussion.
He's doing well but is prone to a mistake.
Typical post from you, can't say anything nice so instead you make up some hypothetical situation and tries to use that against him.
Guess who else is "prone to a mistake"?
Kayne Ramsay against Millwall.
Who else?
Lloyd Jones and TC against QPR.
If Docherty never made mistakes he'd have been signed by Liverpool for £100m and Scotland would have one of the world's best midfields right now with him and McTominay.
Nonsense post
'Hypothetical' - it literally happened in the game against Sheff Utd that's why I'm referring to it. They stole it off him and had a good chance from it.
Fine margins in that middle though, if Doc would've been punished for giving the ball away easily we'd be having the complete opposite discussion.
He's doing well but is prone to a mistake.
Every player at every level is prone to a mistake. You see mistakes in every game and every game is about ifs, buts and maybes. Can't we just say he, and the rest of the team, played well overall and we deserved to win without trying to pick holes. And before anyone says "it's a discussion site" I agree but sometimes it gets a bit grating that some people want to find something to moan about. 😞
'He's doing well'.
Just commenting on the nature of fairweather fans that praise when we win and criticise when lose. He's a good player that's doing well.
I think Jones sees the stats we don't in terms of ground covered and running. What a player does off the ball is very important, especially to the way we play. Doc is doing a great job.
I was certainly one who felt he was a passenger, particularly in the first half of last season. I think by his own admission he took time to settle and Jones also benched him a couple of times.
I questioned the wisdom of not only making him skipper, but signing him at all. 2025 has certainly seen a much better version of Doc, with I hope more to come.
To be honest I don't think he was a passenger in the first half of last season, he was actively bad. Games where we should have been taking the initiative he was so careless on the ball and he really struggled with how congested the middle was and was rightly dropped. Once we tweaked the style and the middle opened up he became much more effective but still not great in possession. He started the season the same way but the last couple of games he's been much sharper with his passing and less wasteful. I think players like Doc and TC are often good indicators for how people watch football. If you watch for moments and remember the highlights of a game when assessing how a player did Doc won't feature and you'll remember a lot of TC's stuff not coming off. Doc's big invovlement though is always showing for a pass out from the defence so they have options and don't get dispossessed in front of the goal, always rushing the opposition players and not giving them time to play the passes they want, offering a double-up on a dangerous player where he doesn't get the ball but helps funnel the player into a defender. It's a lot of selfless, unglamourous stuff but it's important to our team. He still needs to get better again on the ball but for a team that is usually out of possession he does so much work off the ball
Fine margins in that middle though, if Doc would've been punished for giving the ball away easily we'd be having the complete opposite discussion.
He's doing well but is prone to a mistake.
Typical post from you, can't say anything nice so instead you make up some hypothetical situation and tries to use that against him.
Guess who else is "prone to a mistake"?
Kayne Ramsay against Millwall.
Who else?
Lloyd Jones and TC against QPR.
If Docherty never made mistakes he'd have been signed by Liverpool for £100m and Scotland would have one of the world's best midfields right now with him and McTominay.
Nonsense post
'Hypothetical' - it literally happened in the game against Sheff Utd that's why I'm referring to it. They stole it off him and had a good chance from it.
Stole it from him? So he made a mistake, or their player produced a decent bit of play? And did they score from it? No? So they didn't punish us?
He was wonderful yesterday and has been very good all season so far. NJ doesn’t give him an ounce of leeway - as skipper he gets it in the ear big time if he makes a mistake and the bloke just takes it as the consummate professional he is.
He needs a new song mind. Was great to see him hearing his name and applauding the fans for the recognition.
I always find it amusing when a club feels a player isn't up to their level so they let them go, only for the player to eventually play above that team.
E.g. Greg Doherty from Hull Macaulay Gillespie from Plymouth
I always find it amusing when a club feels a player isn't up to their level so they let them go, only for the player to eventually play above that team.
E.g. Greg Doherty from Hull Macaulay Gillespie from Plymouth
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
I agree, but now isn’t the time to drop any of our midfield three.
After Saturday we’ve had the question of whether Ramsay goes straight back into the team. It would have been laughed at last season, but now it’s a fair question with the options we have.
At some point I’m sure there will be the same debate about the midfield. When others get their chance hopefully they take it and it drives even higher standards.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?
I don't think he said it was only Docherty? Though Coventry has shown he has some ability on the ball. He sprays good crossed field balls every now and then, don't recall seeing Doc do anything like that.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?
I read it as a general point, so it includes Coventry and Carey too.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
Like a Steven Gerrard or Scott Parker type, easy to find for 2 or 3 million quid aren't they? Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
Like a Steven Gerrard or Scott Parker type, easy to find for 2 or 3 million quid aren't they? Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
That’s why I said hopefully 1 or 2 here step up and drive even higher standards. It’s too early to know if JRC, Knibbs etc will remain as subs or any become first choice, we haven’t seen enough of them and the current starting 11 deserve to keep their places.
For me our defence is looking like it’s very good at this level, but our front 2 and midfield from an in possession and attacking perspective isn’t at the same level.
We don’t need a Parker or a Gerrard. We might even have some of the players we need already here, whether that’s current starters improving or subs winning a place in the team.
I agree we’ll look to build again next summer. Hopefully we won’t need as many signings as this summer because that should mean we’ve had a good season.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
Like a Steven Gerrard or Scott Parker type, easy to find for 2 or 3 million quid aren't they? Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
That’s why I said hopefully 1 or 2 here step up and drive even higher standards. It’s too early to know if JRC, Knibbs etc will remain as subs or any become first choice, we haven’t seen enough of them and the current starting 11 deserve to keep their places.
For me our defence is looking like it’s very good at this level, but our front 2 and midfield from an in possession and attacking perspective isn’t at the same level.
We don’t need a Parker or a Gerrard. We might even have some of the players we need already here, whether that’s current starters improving or subs winning a place in the team.
I agree we’ll look to build again next summer. Hopefully we won’t need as many signings as this summer because that should mean we’ve had a good season.
Agree for the most part of that, would be hard to drop any of our current midfield at the moment but am sure the team will evolve over the season and maybe Anderson or Fullah could provide what we currently lack.
All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughable
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?
I read it as a general point, so it includes Coventry and Carey too.
The QPR game demonstrated that as soon as you have a player, or players, anywhere on the pitch that is/are not 100% focussed and 100% doing their bit for our gameplan then it can all unravel. The other 5 games, even the defeat against Leicester were all games we either did win or should have, even the one where the inferior opposition only equalised because we had just ten men, because everyone was focussed and doing their bit and more. The only thing that’s missing at the moment is that extra sharpness and timing in front of the opposition goal that only really comes to the fore from around October onwards when enough games have been played to have skills put to sleep over the close season sufficiently honed again.
On the captain side of thing, this video shows how valuable he is. He's so delighted, so happy for Tanto, gently encouraging, casually prasies the fans and understands the sacrifices to be there and then his celebrations themselves were also great
Our next evolution as a team will be getting a midfielder who can help us progress the ball. Gailbraith would likely have been a true transformational signing in that sense - and he didn't cost the earth, either.
I am pretty cool on our current midfield pairing and I recognise that goes against the tide. They both work hard and they want to win football matches, which does go a long way. It's just a matter of what else you want from your midfield at this level.
Docherty looks better in the Championship because we have less of the ball. Last year he was expected to do more in possession against teams that sat back, and that's not really in his game. For Coventry, he plays a simple game very well. But in this division, while his duel stats are improving, he's still only won 25% of his tackles, which is one of the lowest rates in the league. Still a long way to go, so hopefully that can improve. He could also work on improving his passing range.
At Luton, NJ had Dewsbury-Hall, who is a progressive player, alongside Ruddock-Mpanzu, who was much more physical than Coventry. I'd expect NJ to look to upgrade in terms of ability and power in the medium term.
Doc popped up a couple of times with attempts on goal, I'm not adverse to seeing more of this too, midfield chipping in with some goals would make a big difference especially if nicking 1 nils is the way
Doc popped up a couple of times with attempts on goal, I'm not adverse to seeing more of this too, midfield chipping in with some goals would make a big difference especially if nicking 1 nils is the way
It’s the sloppy seconds from midfield attempts that strikers thrive on. If they don’t go in they can still cause brief disruption, loose (foot)balls, gaps in the defensive wall and, more importantly, a goalkeeper off balance or in the wrong place.
Doc popped up a couple of times with attempts on goal, I'm not adverse to seeing more of this too, midfield chipping in with some goals would make a big difference especially if nicking 1 nils is the way
It’s the sloppy seconds from midfield attempts that strikers thrive on. If they don’t go in they can still cause brief disruption, loose (foot)balls, gaps in the defensive wall and, more importantly, a goalkeeper off balance or in the wrong place.
Im hoping Kelman can be like Godden in this sense, hasn’t shown much sniffer dog instinct so far but he hopefully is working on getting himself in the positions
Comments
Like George Dobson ( who had similarly impressed me playing for Walsall) I was delighted when he joined us.
I really felt yesterday he was superb and he is proving to be an astute captain and leader.
Was pleased to hear Terry Smith praise his captaincy both on and off the pitch.
Look at those Steve Bruce had around him at United.
Just commenting on the nature of fairweather fans that praise when we win and criticise when lose. He's a good player that's doing well.
He is a real grafter and a proper captain. Genuine leader and club man, we should all love him.
Nonsense
Top bloke!
After Saturday we’ve had the question of whether Ramsay goes straight back into the team. It would have been laughed at last season, but now it’s a fair question with the options we have.
At some point I’m sure there will be the same debate about the midfield. When others get their chance hopefully they take it and it drives even higher standards.
Carey and Knibbs will chip in with goals as they already have but I am happy with how it looks personally.
I would happily take gritty 1-0 wins all season, substance over style in this case.
Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
For me our defence is looking like it’s very good at this level, but our front 2 and midfield from an in possession and attacking perspective isn’t at the same level.
We don’t need a Parker or a Gerrard. We might even have some of the players we need already here, whether that’s current starters improving or subs winning a place in the team.
I agree we’ll look to build again next summer. Hopefully we won’t need as many signings as this summer because that should mean we’ve had a good season.
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/1969718498856501615
I am pretty cool on our current midfield pairing and I recognise that goes against the tide. They both work hard and they want to win football matches, which does go a long way. It's just a matter of what else you want from your midfield at this level.
Docherty looks better in the Championship because we have less of the ball. Last year he was expected to do more in possession against teams that sat back, and that's not really in his game. For Coventry, he plays a simple game very well. But in this division, while his duel stats are improving, he's still only won 25% of his tackles, which is one of the lowest rates in the league. Still a long way to go, so hopefully that can improve. He could also work on improving his passing range.
At Luton, NJ had Dewsbury-Hall, who is a progressive player, alongside Ruddock-Mpanzu, who was much more physical than Coventry. I'd expect NJ to look to upgrade in terms of ability and power in the medium term.