I think there needs to be an explanation as to why the away fans were not just kept back for 30 minutes to allow our fans to get out first. It seems like common sense to me. Next season I would personally ban ticket sales to Millwall or if that’s not allowed then certainly carry out a full review of yesterday to stop the same occurrence next season
In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
First of all, I have to say that I didn’t attend the game yesterday partly because I now live in Wales and partly because of two age related medical conditions that now make solo long distance travel somewhat complicated.
However, as a Charlton fan for over sixty years and a veteran of loads of local derbies, I would like to make a few comments.
1.). The Police.*The way this game and its aftermath smacks of extreme cowardice by the police. Although Charlton do have their own hooligan element, it is much smaller, and certainly in percentage terms, compared to that of Millwall. Yet, despite this, the police chose to cause to increase the inconvenience to the overwhelming majority of the law abiding fans attending the game in order to minimize the inconvenience of the much lesser number of away fans. This is pusillanimous surrender to minority mob rule by the police.
I don’t know how many football games that I have attended over the years, probably more than a thousand. This is the first one that I can remember where the overwhelming majority of fans have been singled out to be highly inconvenienced so that a very small minority suffer no inconvenience. I do know that there were a number of events, such as large political demonstrations in London yesterday . If the police didn’t think they could cope properly with the game yesterday they had the option of requesting a postponement.
* I am not naturally anti police, my father was a policeman in R division for thirty years and I was born in police accommodation.
2.) The Club. It may be that the Club disagreed with the police arrangements for the of the match yesterday. If so I believe that they should make that clear. If the club, and the police , don’t believe that they can deal with 3000 Millwall fans, without massively affecting an overwhelming majority of well behaved home fans then the number of tickets available to Millwall should be reduced to number the club feel that the police and stewards believe they can control.
I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
It doesn’t work that way. Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
I know for a fact that some police on football duty yesterday (at Palace but not necessarily only there ) were on notice that after the game they were likely to be redirected to Westminster.
I understood that was evolving given the issues in London / numbers.
In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
There was a tannoy announcement about it
Which depending where you sit in the ground means there was a very good chance you wouldn’t be able to hear it (Upper Covered End)
I refer to my lengthy post on this matter this morning on this thread (Page 22) and now more aside now put into an email to the club with the Supporters Trust and the Fans Advisors copied into it
All the above is why I don’t go to Charlton vs Millwall games. I went to the 4-4 (?) game years ago when the police let everyone out at the same time and separated fans in the walk up to the station then you’re all left to it. I unfortunately got in a carriage with a load of Millwall who made me feel really uncomfortable and intimidated as I was on my own. I doubt I’m the only fan that avoids these games. How’s that right?
Feel so sorry for the little boy of 7 who felt scared. I hope someone at the club sees the post about it and lets him meet the players. The club should be looking after us not just making money.
I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
It doesn’t work that way. Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
I know for a fact that some police on football duty yesterday (at Palace but not necessarily only there ) were on notice that after the game they were likely to be redirected to Westminster.
I understood that was evolving given the issues in London / numbers.
As I’ve said, things have definitely changed in the time since I moved careers as this used to be very unusual. Unsurprisingly given there’s only so many level 2 officers to go around nowadays.
Another point, with police directing thousands of fans to Charlton Lane you'd have thought they might have shut the road to traffic around 2pm.
I agree this was negligent. Typically you need an advertised traffic order to close a road, I believe, but the police must have public safety powers. It was an obvious hazard. They also need to explain why officers did not seem to be aware of their own agreement to allow limited access to Ransom Walk.
The fixture came out in June so they had plenty of time or were these arrangements cobbled together last Friday?
I was told by someone ITK that the police were scared sh*tless that the Millwall "fans" would resort to violence should any alternative plan for leaving the Ground be implemented.
Violence against Charlton fans or the police themselves ?
I was told by someone ITK that the police were scared sh*tless that the Millwall "fans" would resort to violence should any alternative plan for leaving the Ground be implemented.
Violence against Charlton fans or the police themselves ?
This really annoys me. We used to police football on intelligence not reputation. This is the sort of nonsense you get when you centralise stuff and get rid of experts.
I was told by someone ITK that the police were scared sh*tless that the Millwall "fans" would resort to violence should any alternative plan for leaving the Ground be implemented.
Violence against Charlton fans or the police themselves ?
This really annoys me. We used to police football on intelligence not reputation. This is the sort of nonsense you get when you centralise stuff and get rid of experts.
Not sure on intelligence and the spanners go together.
The fan who was hit by Millwall yob was trying to stop 6/7 Millwall who were kicking & punching a Charlton fan who was laid out on a lower stairs. Another Charlton fan was shouting that 'This is a family stand" as mainly elderly, families and kids were scrambling up the stairs to try and get away..... Police & Stewarding failed yesterday so someone has to be held to account Club communication was woeful, they could have easily put up a notice about post match exiting the stadium on the scoreboard & made announcements before, during, after....plus sent an email & put it on website, social media....There is no excuse for this again someone needs to take responsibilty.
It's why next season providing we are both in the same league will be the same old shit again. We will be inconvenienced whether that being rerouted or held back while we lay out the red carpet for them as the police will find it easier appeasing the 3000 rather than the 20,000.
I'm very interested to see what the clubs response will be on Monday as a full explaination is needed about the stewarding and policing & an explaination about why Home fans were made to feel like Away supporters in our own ground and put in danger.......
I am confused by the apparent disconnect that inside the ground the police are in the control box, but there are no actual police dotted around, visibly, amongst the people. When I started going there used to be an actual presence of half a dozen or so police officers standing on the sidelines, I don’t see any inside stadiums any more.
Unfortunately I was at the bottom of those stairs with my eight year old son and his friend as that gate opened. There was a panic and people tried to run… like when someone gets shot. I grabbed their hands said ‘we’ll be fine but hold my hand and let’s walk up the stairs quickly’. I looked straight ahead but my son looked back and said he saw a group on Millwall fans attacking a single Charlton fan, and that he felt really sorry for that fan.
He was petrified and is still distraught now. Wouldn’t let me leave his room at bed time.
Can’t lie, I’m fucking furious and will be making a complaint.
I’m going to include the CAST email address provided by the rep for this complaint - does anyone have advice on which club address to include? Or which Met Police one? Thanks
In terms of communication from the club, sitting in the Upper West at a match a few seasons ago an announcement was made with 5 minutes to go that the gate onto Valley Grove that comes out by the away fans was closed post-match.
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
There was a tannoy announcement about it
Not in the West Stand Upper Block Q. If after the final whistle I left bang on FT. They used to do it just before match ended and it worked.
Either way I knew of the restrictions but trying to go against the flow of people going the traditional exit way was tough. We've all said communication could've been better.
It's two parts really. Police made the decision for whatever reason, why? Then when telling the club, why didnt they inform us clearly. They informed us, on the end of their match preview, but whether they agreed or not, pixtures of fans stuck in the stairs of the West Stand, and getting caught outside the shop risks greater problems.
I'm very interested to see what the clubs response will be on Monday as a full explaination is needed about the stewarding and policing & an explaination about why Home fans were made to feel like Away supporters in our own ground and put in danger.......
I'm very interested to see what the clubs response will be on Monday as a full explaination is needed about the stewarding and policing & an explaination about why Home fans were made to feel like Away supporters in our own ground and put in danger.......
You're actually expecting a response from the club on Monday. I wouldn't hold your breath.
I was told by someone ITK that the police were scared sh*tless that the Millwall "fans" would resort to violence should any alternative plan for leaving the Ground be implemented.
Violence against Charlton fans or the police themselves ?
I heard that too. The problem i’ve got with it, apart from the obvious one that the police simply cannot be “scared” of Millwall fans, is that, for sure, Millwall fans are held back at many grounds they visit around the country, and they dont routinely smash up every one or attack all the police there. Why would they be any worse at our place than at Leeds? Or Pompey? Or Palace on Wednesday?
Comments
They may not of known until the day before this time around about police arrangements but still absolutely no announcements.
Even a tannoy announcement would've mitigated some of these issues, regardless of whether they were right or wrong.
However, as a Charlton fan for over sixty years and a veteran of loads of local derbies, I would like to make a few comments.
1.). The Police.*The way this game and its aftermath smacks of extreme cowardice by the police. Although Charlton do have their own hooligan element, it is much smaller, and certainly in percentage terms, compared to that of Millwall. Yet, despite this, the police chose to cause to increase the inconvenience to the overwhelming majority of the law abiding fans attending the game in order to minimize the inconvenience of the much lesser number of away fans. This is pusillanimous surrender to minority mob rule by the police.
I don’t know how many football games that I have attended over the years, probably more than a thousand. This is the first one that I can remember where the overwhelming majority of fans have been singled out to be highly inconvenienced so that a very small minority suffer no inconvenience. I do know that there were a number of events, such as large political demonstrations in London yesterday . If the police didn’t think they could cope properly with the game yesterday they had the option of requesting a postponement.
* I am not naturally anti police, my father was a policeman in R division for thirty years and I was born in police accommodation.
I refer to my lengthy post on this matter this morning on this thread (Page 22) and now more aside now put into an email to the club with the Supporters Trust and the Fans Advisors copied into it
I was told by someone ITK that the police were scared sh*tless that the Millwall "fans" would resort to violence should any alternative plan for leaving the Ground be implemented.
Violence against Charlton fans or the police themselves ?
We used to police football on intelligence not reputation.
This is the sort of nonsense you get when you centralise stuff and get rid of experts.
Police & Stewarding failed yesterday so someone has to be held to account
Club communication was woeful, they could have easily put up a notice about post match exiting the stadium on the scoreboard & made announcements before, during, after....plus sent an email & put it on website, social media....There is no excuse for this again someone needs to take responsibilty.
Hardly a stint in Northern Ireland at the height of its troubles was it?
Either way I knew of the restrictions but trying to go against the flow of people going the traditional exit way was tough. We've all said communication could've been better.
It's two parts really. Police made the decision for whatever reason, why? Then when telling the club, why didnt they inform us clearly. They informed us, on the end of their match preview, but whether they agreed or not, pixtures of fans stuck in the stairs of the West Stand, and getting caught outside the shop risks greater problems.
Granted Fleetwood are different to that mob ..
The Greenwich police need to answer that one.
There is a cringe loyalty towards a fasion brand