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After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45
Comments
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The more I see, the more horrendous yesterday's stewarding arrangements appear to me..Off_it said:Took this pic a good 10 mins plus after the final whistle.
The whole of the West Sand was trying to squeeze out of one gate. Which wouldn't have been as bad if everyone was then turning right along the "appointed" route, but it was carnage with people not knowing which way they could or should go. So the stairs were backed up all the way to the top and people weren't moving.
Surely that's a safety concern? And it definitely blew a whole in the myth some on here were going along with that the diversion would only add 10-15 mins to the walk to the station.
Suppose you had an emergency and needed to get people out quickly. Not possible with everyone standing on the staircase. Suppose there was a medical emergency requiring a St Johns team quick access to the patient? They would struggle to get through.
Heads should roll over this fiasco
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So it is upto the club to shell out the cost for police inside the stadium.charltonnick said:
That is because clubs have to pay for police inside the stadium but not outside. So the cheap option is stewards. You have to feel sorry for the couple of stewards having to deal with the baying mob at the gate incident.jose said:I am confused by the apparent disconnect that inside the ground the police are in the control box, but there are no actual police dotted around, visibly, amongst the people.
When I started going there used to be an actual presence of half a dozen or so police officers standing on the sidelines, I don’t see any inside stadiums any more.
Money before safety, not good.4 -
This is my lasting anxiety about the whole thing. The prospect of tragedy was not far away. We'll never know how close and the likelihood that it happens again is high.Pelham123 said:I left the North Lower after our players applauded us. Harvey Gardens was packed solid and unsafe in my opinion. If someone had stumbled and fallen it would have been a serious situation. Shuffled up to junction of Charlton Lane and went down towards crossing. Why did they keep Charlton Lane open to traffic ? A car was stationary on the crossing between the open gates with nowhere to go. Cars behind and a wall of pedestrians in front. I could see the look of terror on the drivers face yet 2 Police officers at the crossing doing nothing about the situation. I hope Network Rail or whoever were remotely monitoring what was going on and prepared to be holding trains if need be.
Are we the only home fans in this Country to have had these restrictions put in place after a home game ? And I mean treated as away fans.
And good work @Pelham123 for observing a near train related disaster1 -
The people in charge of our club don’t give a shit income before safety every time. As for the police they are just a joke bunch of cowards nicking a living.6
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Yeah, I used @mpsgreenwich.PragueAddick said:
Great. More of that, everybody. They need to feel that we are not going to just shrug and move on. however wonder if you used a dud address? It’s @MPSGreenwichguinnessaddick said:I've asked @greenwichpolice on X on how they think their policing of the game went yesterday. I doubt I'll get an answer.0 -
So long as a lot of people post/comment on social media, it's well worth it, as whoever the recipient is will hate the negative publicity, and likely actually do something about it.chilham said:
Waste of time commenting on socials, I will be sending email to mps Greenwich 'contact' tomorrow..guinnessaddick said:I've asked @greenwichpolice on X on how they think their policing of the game went yesterday. I doubt I'll get an answer.Obviously, also good to flood there email address to with descriptions of what happened.2 -
You would have thought that when closing the roads around the ground before kick off, someone would have asked what about after the game.Airman Brown said:
I agree this was negligent. Typically you need an advertised traffic order to close a road, I believe, but the police must have public safety powers. It was an obvious hazard. They also need to explain why officers did not seem to be aware of their own agreement to allow limited access to Ransom Walk.iaitch said:Another point, with police directing thousands of fans to Charlton Lane you'd have thought they might have shut the road to traffic around 2pm.1 -
I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else1
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Ridiculous comment nothing to do with owners or stewards the police tell the club what going to happen .. the police wanted this game called off once the demonstrations were arranged for London the same day so could not supply the number of police that normally was needed at this fixture .Hartleypete said:The people in charge of our club don’t give a shit income before safety every time. As for the police they are just a joke bunch of cowards nicking a living.5 -
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.2 -
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And where's your evidence for this? Oh there won't be, because it's just yet another random empty comment from the forum's resident helmetRonnieMoore said:
Ridiculous comment nothing to do with owners or stewards the police tell the club what going to happen .. the police wanted this game called off once the demonstrations were arranged for London the same day so could not supply the number of police that normally was needed at this fixture .Hartleypete said:The people in charge of our club don’t give a shit income before safety every time. As for the police they are just a joke bunch of cowards nicking a living.7 -
Watching Saints v Portsmouth - game long finished Pompey fans locked in ground ..1
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That’s madness, who would do such a thing?Valleysarr said:Watching Saints v Portsmouth - game long finished Pomey fans locked in ground ..8 -
There are things here that really don’t add up.
Especially last minute changes to routes enforced on the club.
I’ve organised policing for plenty of high category football matches and things are usually sorted and set in stone weeks before.I’ll wager those who were responsible for the march up town underestimated the numbers and then had to rob Peter to pay Paul.
Plus the nonsense in the away end should have been dealt with by security inside the ground. Having only two uncontactable stewards on a gate that keeps two rival supporters apart makes no sense at all.
All the while protests continue in London, other policing will suffer. Not an excuse but it’s reality.6 -
"Watch and learn son, watch and learn"
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I always think i hate Palace more, but thats probably because they are just more successful and in the news more these days. Everytime we play Millwall it just reminds me of who I really really hate the most and who our true rivals are! Such a scummy club.6
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That's a pretty clear picture of the bloke throwing the punch.YTS1978 said:"Watch and learn son, watch and learn"
I suspect his front door may well get kicked in by the police in the not too distant future.9 -
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
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There’s commissioners reserve for that.Braziliance said:
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
Very exceptional circumstances for redeployments after a tour.
And all officers on duty yesterday would have been level 2 trained.
Unless the cutbacks have changed football policing since I left.0 -
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Yeah just feels like there was a disproportionate amount of police vans riot squad compared to any game ive seen in history at the valley including many vs millwall. Very weirdBraziliance said:
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.0 -
Scum.YTS1978 said:"Watch and learn son, watch and learn"
I am not blaming the Charlton fan being attacked as it seems like he was the one trying to put them off trying to attack families, and in doing so has more bollocks than the airhead Charlton fans that goaded the Millwall fans and legged it when they broke through, but that is a prime example of why men should at least learn to defend themselves if they don't want to fight, it is a life skill.
Always a chance of some little scumbag bully like that trying his luck. A week of basic self defence and you'd have a little weasel like that on the deck in seconds. A proper fighter would never attack a bloke with no threatening presence and hands up, proper coward behaviour.15 -
It was excessive and then the man power wasn't where it was needed. Yesterday was a shambles top to bottom.2121 said:
Yeah just feels like there was a disproportionate amount of police vans riot squad compared to any game ive seen in history at the valley including many vs millwall. Very weirdBraziliance said:
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
I am not the type to say people should lose their jobs so willy-nilly, but serious conversations need to be had about yesterday regarding security and fan safety.
Complete lack of care and responsibility, people could have got hurt, luckily they didn't.
If I had kids and witnessed what I saw there yesterday, I wouldn't be taking them back in a hurry, not a good look.
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Surely if he had thrown punches back all his numscull mates would have piled in.life skills like self defense would be pretty useless in this situationBraziliance said:
Scum.YTS1978 said:"Watch and learn son, watch and learn"
I am not blaming the Charlton fan being attacked as it seems like he was the one trying to put them off trying to attack families, and in doing so has more bollocks than the airhead Charlton fans that goaded the Millwall fans and legged it when they broke through, but that is a prime example of why men should at least learn to defend themselves if they don't want to fight, it is a life skill.
Always a chance of some little scumbag bully like that trying his luck. A week of basic self defence and you'd have a little weasel like that on the deck in seconds. A proper fighter would never attack a bloke with no threatening presence and hands up, proper coward behaviour.9 -
Who knew Gather and Gather ran our security as well!13
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Plenty of officers get redeployed after football or protests etc, two of my mates who are level 2 trained got redeployed after I spoke to them at QPR away the other week to a political protest more central.KBslittlesis said:
There’s commissioners reserve for that.Braziliance said:
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
Very exceptional circumstances for redeployments after a tour.
And all officers on duty yesterday would have been level 2 trained.
Unless the cutbacks have changed football policing since I left.
This wasn't the case anyway as when I walked back to my car I saw about 8-10 police vans parked up near the rose of Denmark, they weren't in a hurry or going anywhere.
This was all just a strategical failure by the Met, the club, security and whoever else had a say. Conversations need to be had.4 -
I am more talking about arm control and throws, or being able to maintain distance.timken said:
Surely if he had thrown punches back all his numscull mates would have piled in.life skills like self defense would be pretty useless in this situationBraziliance said:
Scum.YTS1978 said:"Watch and learn son, watch and learn"
I am not blaming the Charlton fan being attacked as it seems like he was the one trying to put them off trying to attack families, and in doing so has more bollocks than the airhead Charlton fans that goaded the Millwall fans and legged it when they broke through, but that is a prime example of why men should at least learn to defend themselves if they don't want to fight, it is a life skill.
Always a chance of some little scumbag bully like that trying his luck. A week of basic self defence and you'd have a little weasel like that on the deck in seconds. A proper fighter would never attack a bloke with no threatening presence and hands up, proper coward behaviour.
Never let a presumably pissed up/coked up hooligan get that close to you. I am not talking the average bloke should be dishing out headkicks and hammer fists, but just learn how to stop a bully like that getting that close.
All this stuff about honour among hooligans and not attacking certain people is mostly nonsense, little airheads like that will attack who they want.
Nothing against the Charlton fan, he shouldn't even be in that scenario, that's a failure by the club and authorities, just saying it would be handy.2 -
He was a spanner.MrOneLung said:Didn’t we have a fan, who after they equalised ran across corner of pitch and started fighting with Millwall fans in corner of Jimmy Seed
also, seen video of one of the mouthy ones in east stand actually being a spurs fan giving it to Millwall0 -
I think most know that the east stand doesn’t house any sort of lads as such the north upper a very different story.1
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Clearly things have changed then. Hardly surprising as there are more leaving than joining and more handing in their level 2 ticket.Braziliance said:
Plenty of officers get redeployed after football or protests etc, two of my mates who are level 2 trained got redeployed after I spoke to them at QPR away the other week to a political protest more central.KBslittlesis said:
There’s commissioners reserve for that.Braziliance said:
That entirely depends on the circumstances. Police can be redeployed after an event is over, especially level 2 officers who are more trained to handle protests and football.KBslittlesis said:
It doesn’t work that way.2121 said:I think the police wanted to get out asap to get to the united the kingdom march, thought getting millwall out first was their quickest way of getting away - no consideration for anything else
Those who were at the game, that would have been their full tour of duty.
Very exceptional circumstances for redeployments after a tour.
And all officers on duty yesterday would have been level 2 trained.
Unless the cutbacks have changed football policing since I left.
This wasn't the case anyway as when I walked back to my car I saw about 8-10 police vans parked up near the rose of Denmark, they weren't in a hurry or going anywhere.
This was all just a strategical failure by the Met, the club, security and whoever else had a say. Conversations need to be had.
There should be a post match meeting where things will be discussed.
But as nothing was learned from the last time we played them I wouldn’t hold my breath. Football policing isn’t considered important enough I’m afraid.
There are many questions to be raised from yesterday. Mainly why was a decision to change the routes at the end of the game made at such short notice?3
