After the Millwall game - club reply to CAST p34, further CAST response p45

DOUCHER · September 13

golfaddick said:

DOUCHER said:

No point chatting about it , just ignore it and do what we normally do - the police can’t stop 20,000 people

This.

As Jim Morrusin said...."they've got the guns but we've got he numbers"

The OB wont be able to stop thousands of people walking up Floyd rd. What are the going to do....kettle us ?? Charge with horses ??

The reason why the OB are doing it this way is because they know 3k Millwall fans would cause merry hell but 20k Charlton fans will just comply.

I tried causing a scene at the Den last time we were there in 2019. No one bothered backing me up & just stood meekly in the rain whilst we were not allowed to go home.

What is this......communist China ?

i'm with you comrade - i will be going my normal way with my dad who is 83 (he doesn't need the extra mileage) and the rest of our group - and they will have to arrest us - if everybody else does the same they won't have the manpower to stop it - break the line that will be by the club shop and its job done - we are prepared to take the consequences and welcome arguing this this shit out

DOUCHER · September 13

cabbles said:

PragueAddick said:

It bothers me that we all so easily accept that if “the police” have decided something we all just have to shut up and accept it. We are not an authoritarian state, and this is not a matter of national security. This particular police unit has imposed something on our club which no other police unit in England has done. And while I don’t agree at all with the cuts to police manpower, this excuse of the central London flashpoints doesnt wash with me, as this is a repeat of what Greenwich police did 12 years ago when they had more manpower and no distractions in central London.

Its too late to stop tomorrows fiasco, but we really ought to be demanding a club/fan rep meeting with Greenwich Police, where they explain their unique approach to away fan policing for this fixture.

A couple of things for me

One, it’s been announced way too late. If this was the plan, the police, the club, whoever, should’ve been proactive about letting everyone know this was the decision a few weeks ago

Two, I think that there’s a lot going on 2mo in London re; a stretched met police force and the timing of us playing Millwall coincides with West Ham Spurs, other London fixtures and this ‘march of freedom stuff’. I genuinely think that in the interests of making it as easy as possible and avoiding any sort of silliness they’ve opted for segregation. Of course, it’s a piss take and inconvenience, but Floyd Road is tight. As fans all congregate walking back up toward the station, it’s not inconceivable it kicks off and you’ve got two sets of fans going at it in a confined space, something no one wants to see

Three, I completely get the argument about keeping them back and that would be my preferred choice, but is this a case of getting both sets of fans out asap, avoiding the slightest possible fracas. Regardless of the frustration re: we feel getting kept in post games at the Den, we’re not police officers who do this stuff week in week out. Is this just the most efficient, safest way to prevent a few idiots from kicking off.

I completely get the frustration and what seems from the outside looking in, a farce, but maybe this is the most sensible way of avoiding any sort of nonsense, taking info the consideration the game. Not to associate any extremism to the day, but would anyone really want to read about anything kicking off post match. Life’s too short. It’s just a game of football that hopefully we can revel in winning this time 2mo

nope - they should be kept in - that is all there is to it

East Kent Addick · September 13

I hope the Valley Express coach drivers have been told to wait another half an hour as we'll all have to go on a massive detour to get to the coaches - there was sod all about the Ransom Walk closure on the VE email yesterday and the Comms from the club has been useless - still concentrating on ticket sales till the very last minute.

Sheepie1985 · September 13

The way I see it is that it's a lot quicker to clear out 3000 fans than it is to clear 20,000, especially when the former are known to cause problems.. yes I agree with every frustration mentioned on here, but with hindsight it's not the end of the world.. especially if we win!

O-Randy-Hunt · September 13

Sheepie1985 said:

The way I see it is that it's a lot quicker to clear out 3000 fans than it is to clear 20,000, especially when the former are known to cause problems.. yes I agree with every frustration mentioned on here, but with hindsight it's not the end of the world.. especially if we win!

But when we go to the den, is it a lot quicker to clear out 15,000 home fans or 2000 away fans?

Sheepie1985 · September 13

O-Randy-Hunt said:

Sheepie1985 said:

The way I see it is that it's a lot quicker to clear out 3000 fans than it is to clear 20,000, especially when the former are known to cause problems.. yes I agree with every frustration mentioned on here, but with hindsight it's not the end of the world.. especially if we win!

But when we go to the den, is it a lot quicker to clear out 15,000 home fans or 2000 away fans?

Double standards I know, like I said I get the hypocrisy and the frustrations. But to me that’s wrong of them and they should do it the same way we’ve been made to.

hoof_it_up_to_benty · September 13

It will all soon be over and we can find something else to worry about.

OhMyGodden · September 13

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

Baldybonce · September 13

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

CaptainRobbo · September 13

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

They just aren't trying hard enough then are they?
Train spotters nightmare though, can't see any of the numbers.

Raith_C_Chattonell · September 13

I'm sure most people - especially with kids - would like the opportunity to leave the ground and get out the way in safety without the need to witness whatever Millwall want to get up to. Now that choice has been taken away from them - with the potential that Millwall fans could hang back and/or gather at the various London stations.

I know of one elderly die hard fan who has decided not to go because of the potential hassle. I'm not suggesting that he was worried about being attacked, but he's just too old for the general hassle that comes with Millwall games - seems he was right on that score already, and I bet he's not the only one.

OhMyGodden · September 13

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

A good job there's trains at 2:26, 2:37 and 2:57

clb74 · September 13

OhMyGodden said:

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

A good job there's trains at 2:26, 2:37 and 2:57

The game will still be going on at 2.26.

OhMyGodden · September 13

clb74 said:

OhMyGodden said:

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

A good job there's trains at 2:26, 2:37 and 2:57

The game will still be going on at 2.26.

They won't be there to watch when they're 5-0 down

valleynick66 · September 13

OhMyGodden said:

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

A good job there's trains at 2:26, 2:37 and 2:57

Which means the level crossing barrier will be down causing further delays in walking round aside from shuffling behind more people.

It will be slow.

DOUCHER · September 13

It will be a huge queue leading all the way back up the lower road and back to the ground - standing on the pavement in the rain until they have all been helped onto a train - worse than just waiting in the ground and complete and utter bollox

Lewis Coaches · September 13

Baldybonce said:

OhMyGodden said:

Those who say it's a 20min diversion, are you snails? No more than a 5/10min diversion.

It'll be the wait for them to clear the station. They won't all fit on one train.

I would expect the Station and surrounding area to be no go area until most of the AWAY FANS have cleared the area.

Stay safe everyone.

hoof_it_up_to_benty · September 13

I'm getting the bus to the match from Deptford- hoping to make some new Millwall friends...

CaptainRobbo · September 13

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

I'm getting the bus to the match from Deptford- hoping to make some new Millwall friends...

Football friends?

Off_it · September 13

I'm gonna start queuing for the train home just after kick off. Don't wanna take any chances.

ken from bexley · September 13

PragueAddick said:

It bothers me that we all so easily accept that if “the police” have decided something we all just have to shut up and accept it. We are not an authoritarian state, and this is not a matter of national security. This particular police unit has imposed something on our club which no other police unit in England has done. And while I don’t agree at all with the cuts to police manpower, this excuse of the central London flashpoints doesnt wash with me, as this is a repeat of what Greenwich police did 12 years ago when they had more manpower and no distractions in central London.

Its too late to stop tomorrows fiasco, but we really ought to be demanding a club/fan rep meeting with Greenwich Police, where they explain their unique approach to away fan policing for this fixture.

Have to agree with this point of view, but sadly when I was on the trust and we had the same situation which I spoke up about this at the fans forum, and was told that 'lessons would be learnt' ..... seems to me that lessons seem to have been forgotten!, and we are rewarding poor behaviour of Millwall fan's special consideration in my opinion.

Yes, the SMT were different, but does no one ever take notice of the comments expressed at these meetings, which was a reason I declined to go to these meetings.

I still remember being stopped along with two editors of a national magazine, from going up Coxmount road, to Charlton village by some police officers.( drafted in for the day) Quite why this situation cannot be better managed I am surprised at as others have said.

I also find the late announcement of this situation very poor, and that is within the club's management, so much for 'improved communication with the fan base' which was very poor at the time, again which I was critical of.

Being a person that now has mobility issues like quite a few people I do hope there is a regard for next time, otherwise I will have to consider ever going to a game like this again if this is the position, which I am sure is not the intention of the club.

.

usetobunkin · September 13

Will be watching while on holiday, ( I know I got the international dates wrong)
Really hope we get the win.

But hopefully win lose or draw everyone has a great day out. We get to work on Monday and give our Spanner mates the banter that they deserve after we get this monkey off our backs.

Ilovelondontown · September 13

DOUCHER said:

cabbles said:

PragueAddick said:

It bothers me that we all so easily accept that if “the police” have decided something we all just have to shut up and accept it. We are not an authoritarian state, and this is not a matter of national security. This particular police unit has imposed something on our club which no other police unit in England has done. And while I don’t agree at all with the cuts to police manpower, this excuse of the central London flashpoints doesnt wash with me, as this is a repeat of what Greenwich police did 12 years ago when they had more manpower and no distractions in central London.

Its too late to stop tomorrows fiasco, but we really ought to be demanding a club/fan rep meeting with Greenwich Police, where they explain their unique approach to away fan policing for this fixture.

A couple of things for me

One, it’s been announced way too late. If this was the plan, the police, the club, whoever, should’ve been proactive about letting everyone know this was the decision a few weeks ago

Two, I think that there’s a lot going on 2mo in London re; a stretched met police force and the timing of us playing Millwall coincides with West Ham Spurs, other London fixtures and this ‘march of freedom stuff’. I genuinely think that in the interests of making it as easy as possible and avoiding any sort of silliness they’ve opted for segregation. Of course, it’s a piss take and inconvenience, but Floyd Road is tight. As fans all congregate walking back up toward the station, it’s not inconceivable it kicks off and you’ve got two sets of fans going at it in a confined space, something no one wants to see

Three, I completely get the argument about keeping them back and that would be my preferred choice, but is this a case of getting both sets of fans out asap, avoiding the slightest possible fracas. Regardless of the frustration re: we feel getting kept in post games at the Den, we’re not police officers who do this stuff week in week out. Is this just the most efficient, safest way to prevent a few idiots from kicking off.

I completely get the frustration and what seems from the outside looking in, a farce, but maybe this is the most sensible way of avoiding any sort of nonsense, taking info the consideration the game. Not to associate any extremism to the day, but would anyone really want to read about anything kicking off post match. Life’s too short. It’s just a game of football that hopefully we can revel in winning this time 2mo

nope - they should be kept in - that is all there is to it

100%

PragueAddick · September 13

Airman Brown said:

PragueAddick said:

It bothers me that we all so easily accept that if “the police” have decided something we all just have to shut up and accept it. We are not an authoritarian state, and this is not a matter of national security. This particular police unit has imposed something on our club which no other police unit in England has done. And while I don’t agree at all with the cuts to police manpower, this excuse of the central London flashpoints doesnt wash with me, as this is a repeat of what Greenwich police did 12 years ago when they had more manpower and no distractions in central London.

Its too late to stop tomorrows fiasco, but we really ought to be demanding a club/fan rep meeting with Greenwich Police, where they explain their unique approach to away fan policing for this fixture.

We don’t but we also can’t make operational police decisions or overrule them if we think they are wrong. This is a decision by the police to take the route of least resistance, in the process punishing our fans for Millwall’s reputation. It is morally wrong and basically an acceptance that they cannot control Millwall fans even with an exceptionally heavy police presence.

The club doesn’t agree with it. It doesn’t have a say in what happens outside the ground and it can’t unilaterally decide to keep the Millwall fans in. The club and the fans have every right to criticise the police publicly, including calling senior officers to account for their decisions.

As far as the comms are concerned, it’s a cultural thing rather than a resources one. This issue doesn’t really affect the decision makers at the club and this is not the 2000s where the board would stand up for fans. It runs through all their comms. That’s where we are.

Well exactly. That’s what I think should happen. And actually it has to be mainly us fans, because up to a point I understand that the club -any club - feels it has to maintain a good working relationship with the police. But organised supporters groups, with the backing of the FSA, can demand such meetings. I was trying to be this going back in 2013 when this happened - I was on the Trust board then- I put those FOI requests in, demanding the minutes of club/police meetings, partially successful, but as @ken from bexley above says, there wasnt much appetite for challenging the police from other Trust members, just as there isnt this time around.

i genuinely don’t get the contrast between all the noise on here and the deference towards the police when it comes to doing something about it.

ElfsborgAddick · September 13

charltonnick said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

charltonnick said:

If this is going to be the norm maybe we should make it home fans only and leave the JS stand empty.

I cannot see that working, losing money coupled with how many spanners would get tickets which would then create further problems.

Well why not restrict their allocation , they don't give us the lower tear at the Den

I doubt that will achieve much in the policing of the game.

msomerton · September 13

charltonnick said:

ElfsborgAddick said:

charltonnick said:

If this is going to be the norm maybe we should make it home fans only and leave the JS stand empty.

I cannot see that working, losing money coupled with how many spanners would get tickets which would then create further problems.

Well why not restrict their allocation , they don't give us the lower tear at the Den

Let's make money out of them