As I've also said a few times, a lot of Docherty's work is the unseen stuff, the shape he tries to hold in midfield, showing for the ball, endlessly tracking and pressing his man, engaging with players off the ball at set pieces, organising and leading the team. Most of these things don't show up on Opta stats and sofa score
Respectfully there will be League 2 players that can do that, you need more.
He doesn't get into a single other Championship starting XI, and even a fair few sides wouldn't have him on their bench. It's the harsh truth.
No one can deny his commitment, but to not bring in a Championship quality 8 has been disappointing.
Docherty has already shown he is capable of playing well at this level, was motm against Leicester for me. I agree though that he is unlikely to play well consistently at this level, and the big concern is his quality on the ball. I think off the ball he is fine which means he’s absolutely fine for certain games, like the Leicester game, where we are going to have less of the ball.
I think there are two hopes here though, one is that Costello shows that he is the championship quality upgrade we need there. I think he’s going to be better on the ball, from what I’ve seen he looks tidy enough, haven’t seen enough yet to really judge overall though. And the other hope is that Knibbs gets a go in that role, particularly for home games we expect to win.
A score of 8/10 for me - I think you have to factor in that Charlton did not know until late May which league they would be playing in. The club were always playing catch up so getting so many deals done early deserves credit to the management team.
Have we done enough be competitive? What position do you think we should have done more with?
Interested in everyone’s views
PWR
I’d say it’s been a great window.
Decent signings that have given us a chance to compete at this level (perhaps and some). Objective is to stay up this year and then we’ll be in a position to inject further cash to add quality. The step up isn’t easy, but we can be competitive.
After 4 games we don’t look out of our depth do we. We just need to add that finishing touch and that may well come.
I don't think any of the signings have been impressive or ambitious.
I think Jones will have us staying up though. If we do stay up I think the recruitment needs to be more varied than people what Jones knows. Big gains to be made in that area.
Glad to see the BBC up to date with football matters. Was reading the article on Celtics decline and came across this gem today. 'Chelsea striker David Datro Fofana reportedly snubbed them in favour of English League One Charlton, only for that move to ultimately fall through. Strasbourg's Sekou Mara was another forward linked, but no dice there either.' Glad to see they are up to speed with their football reporting!!
I really do think we have done enough player business for our survival & maybe a push for higher,so as that happens I couldn’t be more happier…BUT if the worse were to happen we have put ourselves in the position to go again but aiming for top two…
also if we do find ourselves floating round bottom this season,I do believe these owners will again once supply the players to finish above the R line…👍
Glad to see the BBC up to date with football matters. Was reading the article on Celtics decline and came across this gem today. 'Chelsea striker David Datro Fofana reportedly snubbed them in favour of English League One Charlton, only for that move to ultimately fall through. Strasbourg's Sekou Mara was another forward linked, but no dice there either.' Glad to see they are up to speed with their football reporting!!
Better check to see if it was written by BBC Wales. Amazes me how they manage to get the Wrexham game reports online about 30 seconds after the match has finished, we usually have to wait around 2 hours depending who we are playing.
I don't think any of the signings have been impressive or ambitious.
I think Jones will have us staying up though. If we do stay up I think the recruitment needs to be more varied than people what Jones knows. Big gains to be made in that area.
Totally think people are entitled to their opinion. But I am really struggling to see how none of these signings could be seen as ambitious. They are young, hungry players on the up. Top scorer from League One last year. 2 of the top scoring midfielders, a hugely exciting young right winger and a goal keeper that performed excellently in the Premier League. All of whom have set us back roughly £10million. More than we as a club have spent in the last 10 years combined.
I can get if you haven't been impressed by them so far, but in my eyes, they're definitely ambitious signings. Not necessarily 'big names' but ambitious ones.
I think the window was as good as we could have hoped. I think we have a much stronger squad - and I hope it all gels now so we stay up. Fingers crossed!
The policy this window seemed pretty clear that it was a lot about adding goals to the team and they believed the best and most cost effective way was to sign the players from League One who had a lot of goal contributions last season. In theory, it should help and improve our goal return.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is, so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously where I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and an injury to Coventry could really damage us. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games, as shown already this season.
Have every belief the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
The policy this window seemed pretty clear that it was a lot about adding goals to the team and they believed the best and most cost effective way was to sign the players from League One who had a lot of goal contributions last season. In theory, it should help and improve our goal return.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously that I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and another attacking player injury to Coventry could really damage us as a team. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games as shown already this season.
Have every belief that the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
The policy this window seemed pretty clear that it was a lot about adding goals to the team and they believed the best and most cost effective way was to sign the players from League One who had a lot of goal contributions last season. In theory, it should help and improve our goal return.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously that I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and another attacking player injury to Coventry could really damage us as a team. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games as shown already this season.
Have every belief that the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
The policy this window seemed pretty clear that it was a lot about adding goals to the team and they believed the best and most cost effective way was to sign the players from League One who had a lot of goal contributions last season. In theory, it should help and improve our goal return.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously that I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and another attacking player injury to Coventry could really damage us as a team. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games as shown already this season.
Have every belief that the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
Shame cause it’s a quality post tbf
I read it pal, it was a good read. 👍 I agree that we may be a central midfielder short, however I think people are forgetting about Rankin Costello because he hasn't featured too much yet. Feel like he is definitely the one who has been brought in to challenge Coventry and Docherty.
Definitely promising, and I prefer the strategy of gambling on forwards and midfielders to make the step up, with the odd experienced defender, as we don't have the money to throw at it that Birmingham and Wrexham apparently do. Whether it will pay off long term we'll just have to wait and see, but hopefully we can manage to be patient while the team beds in.
Would be interesting to go back in time with this thread being started the Monday after Bristol away instead. Certain the average score out of 10 would be much higher.
The cup and QPR defeats have made many worry. Personally, I think games like that will be rare for us this season. Yes, we will lose plenty of games, 15+, going on how many those who stayed up last season. But we won't see the QPR performance often with this team.
I didn't expect to spend £10m + this summer, so for that I'm happy and grateful. Stay up and look forward to another championship season and next summer we can start looking at the players costing £5m and up.
From where we've come from I'm very happy. Promotion followed by investment can only be good.
Judging on our previous time in the Championship that should be enough to keep us up. My fear is that the championship has improved much since our last encounter and even with our acquisitions it will be a struggle. So much depends on Nathan and his backroom staff to train, teach and inspire. I think they can do it.
This is serious stuff though for our owners as they flirt with the big time. Our spend amounts to .333 percent of the 3 billion pound window.
I think we have done enough not to end up in a tailspin when injuries start to kick in - bit early to assess beyond that - need kelman, tanto and Knibbs to start contributing more, then we may get a clearer picture of the potential for this season - I think we will be ok
The policy this window seemed pretty clear that it was a lot about adding goals to the team and they believed the best and most cost effective way was to sign the players from League One who had a lot of goal contributions last season. In theory, it should help and improve our goal return.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously that I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and another attacking player injury to Coventry could really damage us as a team. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games as shown already this season.
Have every belief that the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
Shame cause it’s a quality post tbf
I read it pal, it was a good read. 👍 I agree that we may be a central midfielder short, however I think people are forgetting about Rankin Costello because he hasn't featured too much yet. Feel like he is definitely the one who has been brought in to challenge Coventry and Docherty.
It’s early days of course but as good as JRC might be, I don’t see that initial level of quality that I was hoping we’d get in such a key area of the team. Time will tell.
I think I read somewhere that we got to the Championship a year earlier than planned by senior management. For that I take my hat off to Nathan and his team and also to the owners who stepped up earlier than was expected and they put their money where their mouth is. I think the mix of young players stepping up and experienced players showing them the way is going to keep us up and we’ll be OK. Against Leicester we were the better team and should have got something from that game. Against QPR we appeared disorganised and were also outmuscled in several positions. As for the standard of refereeing in the Championship, Pffft, no improvement over League 1.
Without a doubt it has been the best window for a very long time. We have signed some decent players, but we still have lots that have little or no experience at Championship level. Personally, I think we have enough quality to survive, but it is still going to be a very tough challenge. Survival is all that matters this season.
I am still not convinced that we have an adequate replacement for Lloyd Jones if he gets injured, and I think without Lloyd we will struggle to win games (well, we will struggle to keep clean sheets in any case).
NJ clearly needs to settle (stumble?) upon his best team, and whatever that is, we clearly need more creativity. I think we potentially have it if we can find the best way to implement it.
We will lose lots of games this season, but we will have some great matches against good opposition for a change. We should get lots of big crowds at The Valley and great atmosphere. What's not to like?
Regarding us being a year ahead of schedule, and Nathan's previous comments about our targets being the same regardless of the division we're in - we've basically had the dream window for a team chasing L1 autos. I think our list really was the same regardless of division but promotion has meant that we've been more successful in getting everyone we wanted than we would've been otherwise. That would explain it being so weirdly straightforward at the start of the summer.
If 4/5 of the promotion team step up and 4/5 of the new signings are good enough we should be OK.
I never entirely believed that comment about us going up a year of schedule. No promotion is ever completely straightforward, but with a decent budget and a good manager, top 6 in L1 isn't an unrealistic expectation, which then gives you a chance via the playoffs.
Yes Wrexham had their Hollywood budget which enabled them to get two promotions in a row, but Stockport nearly achieved the same thing.
It's hard to build over a period of time, as all your best players get picked off. What we did to the better L1 sides in the summer, would have happened to us instead.
PWR. I think we’ve brought in better players to strengthen the squad and will hopefully stay up. I have been impressed with Bell and Apter and Tanto looks a better option than Aneke. Hopefully Burke can stay fit and Bree is a strong signing on paper at least. Carey looks busy but no end product so far. Unfortunately Kelman and Knibbs haven’t impressed in general play (apart from the Watford goal of course). The other new signings haven’t had a real chance to show their qualities but haven’t looked anything special so far. They do look better than those they’ve replaced in the squad though. Scoring goals is going to be our biggest problem this year so let’s hope we can get enough to stay up
We went fishing in a disappointingly small pond. We need more imaginative use of the money in future, looking abroad rather than at players Jones knows from his past.
We went fishing in a disappointingly small pond. We need more imaginative use of the money in future, looking abroad rather than at players Jones knows from his past.
There was no way we were going to go international first summer. I actually think it makes tonnes of sense going for players Jones knows already, as they also know his tactics and formation given that's what he's played pretty much everywhere he's been.
Also helps that Bree, Bell and Burke were all together at Luton, Berry too. Kaminski, Burke and Bell were then together for a couple of seasons there, Carey and Apter were together at Blackpool, there's lots of chemistry in the squad that we can build upon, much harder to do when you're picking countries out of a hat
Can't really fault jones tbh as some have said going abroad is risky first up and he was probably given a set amount of money to which he got some of the best league one players and some he knows well from higher up on the cheap our budget was never going get real top quality proven.
Comments
I think there are two hopes here though, one is that Costello shows that he is the championship quality upgrade we need there. I think he’s going to be better on the ball, from what I’ve seen he looks tidy enough, haven’t seen enough yet to really judge overall though. And the other hope is that Knibbs gets a go in that role, particularly for home games we expect to win.
I’d say it’s been a great window.
Decent signings that have given us a chance to compete at this level (perhaps and some). Objective is to stay up this year and then we’ll be in a position to inject further cash to add quality. The step up isn’t easy, but we can be competitive.
After 4 games we don’t look out of our depth do we. We just need to add that finishing touch and that may well come.
I don't think any of the signings have been impressive or ambitious.
I think Jones will have us staying up though. If we do stay up I think the recruitment needs to be more varied than people what Jones knows. Big gains to be made in that area.
'Chelsea striker David Datro Fofana reportedly snubbed them in favour of English League One Charlton, only for that move to ultimately fall through. Strasbourg's Sekou Mara was another forward linked, but no dice there either.'
Glad to see they are up to speed with their football reporting!!
also if we do find ourselves floating round bottom this season,I do believe these owners will again once supply the players to finish above the R line…👍
Amazes me how they manage to get the Wrexham game reports online about 30 seconds after the match has finished, we usually have to wait around 2 hours depending who we are playing.
I can get if you haven't been impressed by them so far, but in my eyes, they're definitely ambitious signings. Not necessarily 'big names' but ambitious ones.
The only worry is will enough of them make the step up. I think most will, given time. I also think that the first goal for Kelman and Tanto is going to be huge for them and for us, confidence wise. The quicker they get it the better, if it drags on too long, we could have a problem.
On top of that, despite what some may say about ex Luton or Nathan Jones players, those with experience at this level do have some great qualities. Once we see the likes of Bree and Burke in the team, I think we’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
I feel we have as much depth now as we have had for a long time, and we know how challenging the Championship is, so having that is so important. One of the reasons why we got relegated last time was that injury crisis where we had no depth and had to play academy players who were not good enough. We won’t have that this time.
I stand by my comments previously where I feel we really needed another central midfielder and another attacking player, at least. We haven’t really upgraded in the middle of the park and an injury to Coventry could really damage us. I feel we lack that physicality, height, and know-how in central midfield. I am also disappointed about not signing Fofana in the end as his quality up top could have been the difference in games, as shown already this season.
Have every belief the team put out regularly come the end of the season, maybe even Christmas time, could look quite different to what we’ve been used to. Players like Burke and Bree aren’t here to sit around when available. I also believe it won’t be too long before we see Knibbs starting games. He might just be that bit of height and physicality we’re missing.
On the leaving side, I’m disappointed with the Small situation and feel he actually would have proven to be a better option down the line than Edwards at left wing back at this level. I’m also in the minority of about 3 people who misses Aneke and wished things were different.
Overall, I’m pleased with how the window has gone. We spent more money than I anticipated and got in some good players. There’s definitely room for improvement, but it was always going to be hard against already established clubs and the other two promoted sides being able to spend and go for players we just can’t attract right now.
I think they will already have half an eye on the January window too.
The cup and QPR defeats have made many worry. Personally, I think games like that will be rare for us this season. Yes, we will lose plenty of games, 15+, going on how many those who stayed up last season. But we won't see the QPR performance often with this team.
Judging on our previous time in the Championship that should be enough to keep us up. My fear is that the championship has improved much since our last encounter and even with our acquisitions it will be a struggle. So much depends on Nathan and his backroom staff to train, teach and inspire. I think they can do it.
This is serious stuff though for our owners as they flirt with the big time. Our spend amounts to .333 percent of the 3 billion pound window.
Whether the money was spent on the right players remains to be seen...
For that I take my hat off to Nathan and his team and also to the owners who stepped up earlier than was expected and they put their money where their mouth is.
I think the mix of young players stepping up and experienced players showing them the way is going to keep us up and we’ll be OK.
Against Leicester we were the better team and should have got something from that game. Against QPR we appeared disorganised and were also outmuscled in several positions.
As for the standard of refereeing in the Championship, Pffft, no improvement over League 1.
I am still not convinced that we have an adequate replacement for Lloyd Jones if he gets injured, and I think without Lloyd we will struggle to win games (well, we will struggle to keep clean sheets in any case).
NJ clearly needs to settle (stumble?) upon his best team, and whatever that is, we clearly need more creativity. I think we potentially have it if we can find the best way to implement it.
We will lose lots of games this season, but we will have some great matches against good opposition for a change. We should get lots of big crowds at The Valley and great atmosphere. What's not to like?
COYA
Glad it's closed now and we can all concentrate on the playing side maybe...👌
If 4/5 of the promotion team step up and 4/5 of the new signings are good enough we should be OK.
Yes Wrexham had their Hollywood budget which enabled them to get two promotions in a row, but Stockport nearly achieved the same thing.
It's hard to build over a period of time, as all your best players get picked off. What we did to the better L1 sides in the summer, would have happened to us instead.
I think we’ve brought in better players to strengthen the squad and will hopefully stay up.
I have been impressed with Bell and Apter and Tanto looks a better option than Aneke.
Hopefully Burke can stay fit and Bree is a strong signing on paper at least.
Carey looks busy but no end product so far.
Unfortunately Kelman and Knibbs haven’t impressed in general play (apart from the Watford goal of course).
The other new signings haven’t had a real chance to show their qualities but haven’t looked anything special so far. They do look better than those they’ve replaced in the squad though.
Scoring goals is going to be our biggest problem this year so let’s hope we can get enough to stay up
Also helps that Bree, Bell and Burke were all together at Luton, Berry too. Kaminski, Burke and Bell were then together for a couple of seasons there, Carey and Apter were together at Blackpool, there's lots of chemistry in the squad that we can build upon, much harder to do when you're picking countries out of a hat