My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt. He was so disappointed when he left.
I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.
If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.
While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
I didn't "abuse" him
But shouted "You let us all down Scott" when sitting in the front row for a match vs Newcastle and he'd come over for a throw
My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt. He was so disappointed when he left.
I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.
If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.
While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
Chelsea signed Parker to derail our season and make sure we couldn't finish above them. So a loan back for the rest of the season was never going to happen.
I wouldn't be fickle, I don't want him anywhere near managing us in the future. I think we would have finished in the top four had he stayed. Curbs let Kinsella go to make room for him and Kinsella was and is a bloody legend in my eyes. Ok, not in Parker's class but worth a 100 traitors anyday of the week.
If there is alternate universe where he wasn't a cnut and stayed, I believe that player would have ended up with a more successful career and made more money. Nobody can prove it either way, and he had a half decent career, but I firmly believe it.
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
Lets dispel that myth...
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.
You could argue that "established" and "cemented" are two very different things.
Leicester's successive Premier League positions after their last but one promotion were 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, followed by relegation, promotion and relegation.
Over a span of seven consecutive seasons in the Premier League, they finished in the top 10 five times. I'd say that was barely "established", let alone "cemented", as proven by them then coming 18th and relegated, then promoted, then relegated again. If you ask any fan today to name a "genuine top 10 club", I doubt few would reference Leicester.
Like Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Fulham, Charlton do not have the scale or infrastructure to cement or establish themselves as a genuine top 10 club, and we were never in danger of doing so.
If you listen to the Price of Football you can hear Kieran Maguire talking about the view of football finance people that the FAPL basically has three sub-divisions, but the top one only has 6-7.
The process of establishing a club at any given level requires - like any business - sensible management and the ability and willingness to invest in infrastructure. Plans were laid to increase the Valley capacity to 32,000 and eventually to 40,000. Even with the existing 27k we were hardly a long way behind Chelsea pre-Abramovic or West Ham pre - continuous State subsidy. We were unarguably already ahead of Fulham and Palace in 2004.
Tell me, if in 2004, somebody had told you that they have a premonition that in 20 years time Brentford and Bournemouth will be established FAPL clubs, what would you have said?
I think you are basing your viewpoint (perhaps unconsciously) on the past performances or achievements of clubs. I daresay you invest in financial instruments a bit, so you'll be familiar with the warning that past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Do you believe that Brentford and Bournemouth have both "cemented" themselves as "genuine top 10 clubs"?
That was the start point of this discussion.
I don't believe they have, and I cant imagine many others do either.
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
Lets dispel that myth...
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
Manchester City and Newcastle (and back in the early eighties, even Chelsea) would once have been on that list...
Tottenham have completely transformed their club in the years since we were in the prem, and there was a time where we were sending them players on loan. The issue is being able to replace/maintain performances when a mercurial talent leaves. Tottenham were able to do it when bale left, we weren’t able to do it when Parker left.
He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust. Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6. The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird. Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?
Couldn't agree more, especially in regards to young players and players yrt to make their fortune.
He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust. Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6. The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird. Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?
100%
More like 40% for me. I deffo agree that we should look at Chelsea more than Parker. Although they didnt break the rules. At that time there were ‘t any rules, neither in football nor against Russians with absurdly dubious riches settling for pads in Eaton Square after they reluctantly accepted that Buckingham Place was really not for sale at any price.
But I don’t quite buy the argument that Parker (and more pertinetly, his agent) had to take that offer. Any agent with a brain not addled by greed (a rare commodity, but I’m told they exist) would see that his client’s value and options would double within four months; and an England call-up. After all Chris Powell got the call while at Charlton, and he didnt even expect it!
Nor do I like the Bow analogy much. The reason we didnt kick up is that the financial issue- rebuilding the Valley - was staring us in the face. In 2004 we were in a much better place. We could attract players like Paulo di Canio. We didnt see the need to sell our midfield heartbeat to a club alongside us in the table, in the Jan window. A planned sale in the summer would not have generated much heat at all IMO. But in PV’s telling, their position was weakened by a verbal promise from RM, which unfortunately I can believe to be true, even though I was and remain eternally grateful to RM for his massive role in leading us to where we were in 2004. He never saw Abramovic coming, which to be fair nobody else in Britain did, and it took most of them 10 years or more to see exactly what kind of a **** he was.
I agree when people say if he stayed till the end of the season then he may have had better options. BUT he could have had a career threatening injury that would have hampered a life changing move for him.
I do not blame him at all. Good luck to him.
You can insure yourself against that. You sign a contract, you should honour it - in football and anything else.
What are you talking about?😂 People change jobs all the time. Whether their contract is up or not is simply irrelevant. Surely you just have to notify your company within a certain amount of time???
With the exception of probably six clubs, however many seasons you have been in the Premier League you are only one season away from relegation if you get off to a bad start.
A shame palice have never had that bad start
They’ve had several bad starts actually but still managed to get out of it. If anything they’re the reverse of the CAFC prem model of start we’ll capitulate at 40 pts
I may have to stand corrected but they have never been close to a relegation, and come Christmas they have not been bottom three. Either way, the pricks are still up there.
He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust. Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6. The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird. Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?
Couldn't agree more, especially in regards to young players and players yrt to make their fortune.
He was finically set for life by anyones standard by the age of 23 at Charlton. Its really about the life style you want after that. For some its a betting shop in Cobham, acting obnoxiously, slapping big wads of cash on the counter of the chip shop with your new more successful teammates. For others and there are many there is a bigger picture.
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
Lets dispel that myth...
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
Manchester City and Newcastle (and back in the early eighties, even Chelsea) would once have been on that list...
Tottenham have completely transformed their club in the years since we were in the prem, and there was a time where we were sending them players on loan. The issue is being able to replace/maintain performances when a mercurial talent leaves. Tottenham were able to do it when bale left, we weren’t able to do it when Parker left.
Not quite sure what that has to do with my post, but you are correct.
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
Lets dispel that myth...
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.
You could argue that "established" and "cemented" are two very different things.
Leicester's successive Premier League positions after their last but one promotion were 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, followed by relegation, promotion and relegation.
Over a span of seven consecutive seasons in the Premier League, they finished in the top 10 five times. I'd say that was barely "established", let alone "cemented", as proven by them then coming 18th and relegated, then promoted, then relegated again. If you ask any fan today to name a "genuine top 10 club", I doubt few would reference Leicester.
Like Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Fulham, Charlton do not have the scale or infrastructure to cement or establish themselves as a genuine top 10 club, and we were never in danger of doing so.
If you listen to the Price of Football you can hear Kieran Maguire talking about the view of football finance people that the FAPL basically has three sub-divisions, but the top one only has 6-7.
The process of establishing a club at any given level requires - like any business - sensible management and the ability and willingness to invest in infrastructure. Plans were laid to increase the Valley capacity to 32,000 and eventually to 40,000. Even with the existing 27k we were hardly a long way behind Chelsea pre-Abramovic or West Ham pre - continuous State subsidy. We were unarguably already ahead of Fulham and Palace in 2004.
Tell me, if in 2004, somebody had told you that they have a premonition that in 20 years time Brentford and Bournemouth will be established FAPL clubs, what would you have said?
I think you are basing your viewpoint (perhaps unconsciously) on the past performances or achievements of clubs. I daresay you invest in financial instruments a bit, so you'll be familiar with the warning that past performance is no guarantee of future results.
The proposition being discussed wasn't becoming an established Premier League club, though, it was cementing a place as a genuine top 10 club, which neither Brentford nor Bournemouth have managed. If the original proposition had been becoming an established Premier League club, I doubt it would've been questioned. Short of a takeover by an oligarch or sovereign wealth fund, we were never likely to become a club that finished in the top 10 season after season - that's the preserve of those 6-7 clubs you mentioned at the start of your post.
That's my starting point. I in turn wouldn't have butted in if I thought the OP really believed we were on the path to joining Man U and Liverpool at the top table. I took him to mean (and I believe it too) that we were on the path to establishing ourselves as an FAPL club, which in those days meant not being one of the six or so clubs earmarked by pundits as likely relegation candidates. Each season in the FAPL a club increased its revenue, and the higher it finished in any season the more the revenue increased. Even in 2004 finishing one place higher brought in £1.5m or so in TV money. The UEFA Cup was not then a money-spinner, and could bring pressure on a smaller playing squad, but it would bolster the "brand", in turn assisting sponsorship, and new investors. Of course all this money could be spunked up the wall, but at that point Charlton was a well-run club. I don't know whether RMs unilateral promise to Parker sowed the seeds of discontent within the Board and with PV, but from that point onwards, we lost our mojo, as several others have said. That would not have happened if Parker had not been such a twat; but in my opinion, far more damage and not just to Charlton, was done by our (i.e. the country's) craven open-arms welcome to Abramovic. Without his arrival,and the other types of mega-money investors he encouraged I believe there is a good chance that we would indeed have consolidated our position in the FAPL; and specifically our overall record from 2004 until today would have been comparable to Man City's.
A question for the ITK's if their old memories can recall the noise at the time ?
CAFC couldn't match the Chelsea wage despite being prepared to pay Parker over a million a year with a wage increase and a loyalty bonus of about the same figure for staying. This was before social media but this came from reputable Journalists at the time.
The Journos could've been fed false information as it turned very nasty after Scott had a tantrum and downed tools.
With the exception of probably six clubs, however many seasons you have been in the Premier League you are only one season away from relegation if you get off to a bad start.
A shame palice have never had that bad start
They’ve had several bad starts actually but still managed to get out of it. If anything they’re the reverse of the CAFC prem model of start we’ll capitulate at 40 pts
I may have to stand corrected but they have never been close to a relegation, and come Christmas they have not been bottom three. Either way, the pricks are still up there.
Depends how you define close, there were several seasons where they went into the new year right in the thick of it, most famously the season they sacked de boer after about 5 or 6 games and went back to Woy i think to save the day. You are right that they always got themselves out of it before it got to full-on "squeaky bum time" but they have flirted with us more seasons than not
i always hoped Zaha's departure would be the death knell for them but annoyingly they prepared themselves well for that
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But shouted "You let us all down Scott" when sitting in the front row for a match vs Newcastle and he'd come over for a throw
He seemed irked... but maybe that was in my head
So a loan back for the rest of the season was never going to happen.
If there is alternate universe where he wasn't a cnut and stayed, I believe that player would have ended up with a more successful career and made more money. Nobody can prove it either way, and he had a half decent career, but I firmly believe it.
That was the start point of this discussion.
I don't believe they have, and I cant imagine many others do either.
And not so famously 2013/14
For some its a betting shop in Cobham, acting obnoxiously, slapping big wads of cash on the counter of the chip shop with your new more successful teammates.
For others and there are many there is a bigger picture.
CAFC couldn't match the Chelsea wage despite being prepared to pay Parker over a million a year with a wage increase and a loyalty bonus of about the same figure for staying.
This was before social media but this came from reputable Journalists at the time.
The Journos could've been fed false information as it turned very nasty after Scott had a tantrum and downed tools.
i always hoped Zaha's departure would be the death knell for them but annoyingly they prepared themselves well for that