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Peter Varney on Scott Parker's transfer to Chelsea
Comments
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It may not have if he got a serious injury.MartinCAFC said:
At Parker’s age and his ever-increasing influence on games there’s no way he’d have never had another offer like that again.ElfsborgAddick said:
My point is that the first chance of a life changing move then you should take it.MartinCAFC said:
That could be said of any player in any particular time of there career. You could get hit by a car crossing the road, might as well not bother getting up out of bed in the morning.ElfsborgAddick said:PragueAddick said:
More like 40% for me. I deffo agree that we should look at Chelsea more than Parker. Although they didnt break the rules. At that time there were ‘t any rules, neither in football nor against Russians with absurdly dubious riches settling for pads in Eaton Square after they reluctantly accepted that Buckingham Place was really not for sale at any price.ElfsborgAddick said:
100%Billy_Mix said:He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust.
Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6.
The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird.
Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?But I don’t quite buy the argument that Parker (and more pertinetly, his agent) had to take that offer. Any agent with a brain not addled by greed (a rare commodity, but I’m told they exist) would see that his client’s value and options would double within four months; and an England call-up. After all Chris Powell got the call while at Charlton, and he didnt even expect it!Nor do I like the Bow analogy much. The reason we didnt kick up is that the financial issue- rebuilding the Valley - was staring us in the face. In 2004 we were in a much better place. We could attract players like Paulo di Canio. We didnt see the need to sell our midfield heartbeat to a club alongside us in the table, in the Jan window. A planned sale in the summer would not have generated much heat at all IMO. But in PV’s telling, their position was weakened by a verbal promise from RM, which unfortunately I can believe to be true, even though I was and remain eternally grateful to RM for his massive role in leading us to where we were in 2004. He never saw Abramovic coming, which to be fair nobody else in Britain did, and it took most of them 10 years or more to see exactly what kind of a **** he was.I agree when people say if he stayed till the end of the season then he may have had better options. BUT he could have had a career threatening injury that would have hampered a life changing move for him.I do not blame him at all. Good luck to him.
It may not come around again.1 -
Even four months later?MartinCAFC said:
At Parker’s age and his ever-increasing influence on games there’s no way he’d have never had another offer like that again.ElfsborgAddick said:
My point is that the first chance of a life changing move then you should take it.MartinCAFC said:
That could be said of any player in any particular time of there career. You could get hit by a car crossing the road, might as well not bother getting up out of bed in the morning.ElfsborgAddick said:PragueAddick said:
More like 40% for me. I deffo agree that we should look at Chelsea more than Parker. Although they didnt break the rules. At that time there were ‘t any rules, neither in football nor against Russians with absurdly dubious riches settling for pads in Eaton Square after they reluctantly accepted that Buckingham Place was really not for sale at any price.ElfsborgAddick said:
100%Billy_Mix said:He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust.
Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6.
The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird.
Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?But I don’t quite buy the argument that Parker (and more pertinetly, his agent) had to take that offer. Any agent with a brain not addled by greed (a rare commodity, but I’m told they exist) would see that his client’s value and options would double within four months; and an England call-up. After all Chris Powell got the call while at Charlton, and he didnt even expect it!Nor do I like the Bow analogy much. The reason we didnt kick up is that the financial issue- rebuilding the Valley - was staring us in the face. In 2004 we were in a much better place. We could attract players like Paulo di Canio. We didnt see the need to sell our midfield heartbeat to a club alongside us in the table, in the Jan window. A planned sale in the summer would not have generated much heat at all IMO. But in PV’s telling, their position was weakened by a verbal promise from RM, which unfortunately I can believe to be true, even though I was and remain eternally grateful to RM for his massive role in leading us to where we were in 2004. He never saw Abramovic coming, which to be fair nobody else in Britain did, and it took most of them 10 years or more to see exactly what kind of a **** he was.I agree when people say if he stayed till the end of the season then he may have had better options. BUT he could have had a career threatening injury that would have hampered a life changing move for him.I do not blame him at all. Good luck to him.
It may not come around again.3 -
Haven't you literally just proved the point?MartinCAFC said:
That could be said of any player in any particular time of there career. You could get hit by a car crossing the road, might as well not bother getting up out of bed in the morning.ElfsborgAddick said:PragueAddick said:
More like 40% for me. I deffo agree that we should look at Chelsea more than Parker. Although they didnt break the rules. At that time there were ‘t any rules, neither in football nor against Russians with absurdly dubious riches settling for pads in Eaton Square after they reluctantly accepted that Buckingham Place was really not for sale at any price.ElfsborgAddick said:
100%Billy_Mix said:He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust.
Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6.
The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird.
Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?But I don’t quite buy the argument that Parker (and more pertinetly, his agent) had to take that offer. Any agent with a brain not addled by greed (a rare commodity, but I’m told they exist) would see that his client’s value and options would double within four months; and an England call-up. After all Chris Powell got the call while at Charlton, and he didnt even expect it!Nor do I like the Bow analogy much. The reason we didnt kick up is that the financial issue- rebuilding the Valley - was staring us in the face. In 2004 we were in a much better place. We could attract players like Paulo di Canio. We didnt see the need to sell our midfield heartbeat to a club alongside us in the table, in the Jan window. A planned sale in the summer would not have generated much heat at all IMO. But in PV’s telling, their position was weakened by a verbal promise from RM, which unfortunately I can believe to be true, even though I was and remain eternally grateful to RM for his massive role in leading us to where we were in 2004. He never saw Abramovic coming, which to be fair nobody else in Britain did, and it took most of them 10 years or more to see exactly what kind of a **** he was.I agree when people say if he stayed till the end of the season then he may have had better options. BUT he could have had a career threatening injury that would have hampered a life changing move for him.I do not blame him at all. Good luck to him.1 -
It’s too long ago for me to care. Of course if he stayed everything could have been different. But he didn’t.1
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He still looks like a spotty prick.13
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Thing everybody is overlooking is he had the opportunity to move into Bobby Davro’s old house and it was close to Chelsea’s training ground - u can’t blame him1
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In the Varney article he says that one of the sad things was that the way the transfer went through, he felt Scott could never come back and manage Charlton.fenaddick said:I don't think it will ever happen but I do sometimes wonder what would happen if he came back to manage us. It's already 21 years ago, a lot of younger fans (myself included) can't properly remember it happening and our opinion is based on the things we've heard and read from others. I understand why it would take older fans (sorry!) more time to be won over but I think a decent chunk of the fan base would be fully behind him if he made a solid start, it could turn sour very quickly if things went wrong though
On the whole Cawley venture it's a great read currently, interviews with CP and others, post match reviews with Louis Mendes just after the game. At the moment there is a wealth of historical material, but I wonder if there will be enough to sustain a subscription after a year. I have subscribed mainly for content but also to support RC and hope it can evolve to be sustainable long term.2 -
If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
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Newcastle may end up being in a similar position to CAFC with Scott Parker where they end up selling Isak for 100+ million(not 10) right near the deadline without an adequate replacement* or they continue to fine him for not training(at Newcastle)and being available for selection.
I just can't see the olive branch as suggested by Howe as the Geordies won't forgive Isak for being "one greedy bastard".
I'm surprised they didn't have an escape clause in the contract when he joined Newcastle as it was reported that 63 million was the transfer fee paid to Real Sociedad back in '22'. I assume the agent and Isak were just pleased to get a big wage, signing on fee in the one City team which craves success and love their goal scoring strikers.
* 55 million rejected for Jorgen strand Larsen from Wolves. Only time will tell what his ceiling is and if Newcastle increase their bid.1 -
He fecked the Club off.
He fecked his team mates off.
He fecked us off.
He can feck off………..forever.
Never be over it.
And I’m sure he doesn’t, nor ever will care.
Thick prick.21 - Sponsored links:
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Parker's departure can be seen as the start of a long decline for the club, which has been extremely difficult to reverse. Post-2004 the first team seemed to go on auto-pilot for a couple of seasons. Dowie and Reed were disastrous choices in 2006, Pardew left us in deep trouble in 2008, the ownership changes in 2010 and 2014 caused further problems. Its been a long road back, and we're not there yet.7
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I'm wondering that too, I've been really surprised by the sheer volume of content that RC has been able to deliver. But he also freely admits that he is new to the Substack/podcast world, so I'm sure he will rapidly find new ways to exploit it. It fills a gap; not Club media, not fan social media such as CL with all its disadvantages, not BBC London where you wait for a short Louis Mendez match report, or something on TalkSport when things go belly up, and all the advantages of a proper journo, using modern content delivery. Already an essential part of my Charlton Life.Kap10 said:
In the Varney article he says that one of the sad things was that the way the transfer went through, he felt Scott could never come back and manage Charlton.fenaddick said:I don't think it will ever happen but I do sometimes wonder what would happen if he came back to manage us. It's already 21 years ago, a lot of younger fans (myself included) can't properly remember it happening and our opinion is based on the things we've heard and read from others. I understand why it would take older fans (sorry!) more time to be won over but I think a decent chunk of the fan base would be fully behind him if he made a solid start, it could turn sour very quickly if things went wrong though
On the whole Cawley venture it's a great read currently, interviews with CP and others, post match reviews with Louis Mendes just after the game. At the moment there is a wealth of historical material, but I wonder if there will be enough to sustain a subscription after a year. I have subscribed mainly for content but also to support RC and hope it can evolve to be sustainable long term.2 -
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
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This happens a lot and why players don't officially hand in transfer requests all that often, but instead will get their agents to whine in the press about a move.Chizz said:The bit I have always hated the most about this transfer is the absurdity of the price going up at the last minute.
Don't get me wrong: Charlton's best player demanding a transfer; Chelsea tapping up a player; Parker negotiating an exit a few months after signing a new contract; a bloated, cash-rich club buying its way up the table: these are all reprehensible things.
But the one aspect that has always stuck in my throat is the sudden increase in fee.
The two clubs agreed a £10m sale. For Charlton, that was an eye-watering, bonus income. For Chelsea, it was an accounts rounding error. But, once Charlton had agreed to Parker's demand to be sold to the biggest (sorry... first) (actually, sorry...only) bidder, then Charlton should have expected to receive that, in full. But Parker - who had demanded, whinged and wailed his way to a sale - threw a spanner in the works at the last minute. He demanded (or perhaps his agent demanded on his behalf) a fee, from Charlton of ten per cent as he had not requested a transfer.
Had he put in a transfer request, he would not have been entitled to the fee. As he hadn't, officially at least, put in a written transfer request he was - he argued - due a ten per cent fee.
Charlton were rightly not going to pay that. So it was left to Chelsea to find the extra million quid and lump it on the fee. £11m. Of course, £11m less ten percent leaves Charlton with less than the £10m. Which meant that Chelsea had to put on more. Eventually, the fee (if it were ever put completely and transparently through both clubs' sets of books) would be £11,111,111.
Now, some or all of that story might be completely true and some may have developed over time. But, for Parker to claim a million quid for not putting in a written transfer request is a horrible blot on what might otherwise have been a brilliant Charlton career.0 -
You can insure yourself against that. You sign a contract, you should honour it - in football and anything else.ElfsborgAddick said:PragueAddick said:
More like 40% for me. I deffo agree that we should look at Chelsea more than Parker. Although they didnt break the rules. At that time there were ‘t any rules, neither in football nor against Russians with absurdly dubious riches settling for pads in Eaton Square after they reluctantly accepted that Buckingham Place was really not for sale at any price.ElfsborgAddick said:
100%Billy_Mix said:He was 23 when Chelsea and Abramovic's millions came knocking. After 4 years in Charlton's first team he'd already have been very well paid but then came the offer to set him up financially for life. Anybody on here suggesting they'd have risked putting off that transfer until the summer so they could see Charlton through to a possible European place, is deluded or a hypocrite or both. He was 3 years married at the time. One bad injury and that security is dust.
Chelsea's financial might meant they had the whip hand in negotiations, not just over Charlton. They mopped up more than just Spotty, from 'smaller' clubs then threatening the top 6.
The leak that he'd demanded the move, ensured his reputation was ruined with (some of) the faithful. The appearance of his brand new Aston Martin in the players' car park was a pretty loud FU. His conduct since has been exemplary but the sin of ambition is vehemently unforgiven in the minds of this noisy few. Weird.
Who really was the greater sinner? Parker and his ambition, or moneybags Chelsea and their flagrant abuse of the rules?
In contrast, the sale of Lee Bowyer to Leeds is accepted as 'one of those things, we're a selling club, can't turn down those millions'. I don't remember any leaks or rumours about how blatantly Lee had been tapped up, or how he then behaved if/when he found out. He had of course already misbehaved in ways for which people could legitimately think badly of him. He matured, didn't continually repeat the misdemeanours and his reputation with (most) Addicks is fully restored. Odd innit?But I don’t quite buy the argument that Parker (and more pertinetly, his agent) had to take that offer. Any agent with a brain not addled by greed (a rare commodity, but I’m told they exist) would see that his client’s value and options would double within four months; and an England call-up. After all Chris Powell got the call while at Charlton, and he didnt even expect it!Nor do I like the Bow analogy much. The reason we didnt kick up is that the financial issue- rebuilding the Valley - was staring us in the face. In 2004 we were in a much better place. We could attract players like Paulo di Canio. We didnt see the need to sell our midfield heartbeat to a club alongside us in the table, in the Jan window. A planned sale in the summer would not have generated much heat at all IMO. But in PV’s telling, their position was weakened by a verbal promise from RM, which unfortunately I can believe to be true, even though I was and remain eternally grateful to RM for his massive role in leading us to where we were in 2004. He never saw Abramovic coming, which to be fair nobody else in Britain did, and it took most of them 10 years or more to see exactly what kind of a **** he was.I agree when people say if he stayed till the end of the season then he may have had better options. BUT he could have had a career threatening injury that would have hampered a life changing move for him.I do not blame him at all. Good luck to him.5 -
Manchester City and Newcastle (and back in the early eighties, even Chelsea) would once have been on that list...SporadicAddick said:
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
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That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.SporadicAddick said:
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
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I quite agree, the two transfers are totally unalike. I can't understand how some of our friends on here can't see that. If Bow had stayed, we might have won the the play off final a year earlier than we did. But then we might not have got Mendonca (if my aunt was my uncle...), we did get a good deal ( a transfer record ) which helped develop the ground and bring in some decent players. Nobody will ever shift me from the conviction that had Parker stayed, we would have played in Europe the next season, the four points you mention would have been achieved, I doubt we would have made the Champions League to be honest, but the UEFA cup was 100% a viable proposition.Garrymanilow said:Comparing the Parker transfer to Bowyer is dim beyond belief. Bowyer's transfer was a player going from the First Division to the Premier League over the summer for a record fee for a British teenager. Completely different to a player throwing his toys out of the pram and demanding a move midseason while the club were flying the highest they had ever flown. That's why people are still upset with Parker, he was an English player doing incredibly well at a small club, the transfer options were always going to be there in the summer. He jumped early after making a fuss and it did real damage to the club; if we'd been able to finish the season strongly and end up in the European places we would have had the increased income and the increased pull to replace him more effectively. Instead we replaced him with nothing and then Bryan Hughes. Not to mention it was spectacularly poor negotiation from Murray to only get £10m from a team who'd spent £17m on Damien Duff that season. Parker was a big part of the club having an incredible season and chose to pull the plug on it midway through so he could get paid more for 6 months longer than he otherwise would have. If he'd left that summer having made a contribution - 4 more points would have got us UEFA Cup qualification - it would have been with most Charlton fans' blessing but instead he weaselled his way out and torpedoed the season. It's been all downhill ever since. Also I was 12 and he made me cry.
I would have seen my beloved club play in Europe. I can't understand how anyone who loves Charlton can just shrug and wish him well knowing his decision scuppered any chance of that happening, even more so with the new evidence we are seeing now.
Incidentally, I know there is a mindset that genuinely cannot fathom anyone not chasing the biggest bucks they can all the time. But like I accept that does not make them a bad person, could they not accept that those of us who are not like that are not liars or hypocrites? We just see the world differently to you.12 -
You could argue that "established" and "cemented" are two very different things.PragueAddick said:
That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.SporadicAddick said:
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
Leicester's successive Premier League positions after their last but one promotion were 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, followed by relegation, promotion and relegation.
Over a span of seven consecutive seasons in the Premier League, they finished in the top 10 five times. I'd say that was barely "established", let alone "cemented", as proven by them then coming 18th and relegated, then promoted, then relegated again. If you ask any fan today to name a "genuine top 10 club", I doubt few would reference Leicester.
Like Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Fulham, Charlton do not have the scale or infrastructure to cement or establish themselves as a genuine top 10 club, and we were never in danger of doing so.
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With the exception of probably six clubs, however many seasons you have been in the Premier League you are only one season away from relegation if you get off to a bad start.A shame palice have never had that bad start
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They’ve had several bad starts actually but still managed to get out of it. If anything they’re the reverse of the CAFC prem model of start we’ll capitulate at 40 ptsElfsborgAddick said:With the exception of probably six clubs, however many seasons you have been in the Premier League you are only one season away from relegation if you get off to a bad start.A shame palice have never had that bad start
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My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt.
He was so disappointed when he left.I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.5 -
paulsturgess said:
They’ve had several bad starts actually but still managed to get out of it. If anything they’re the reverse of the CAFC prem model of start we’ll capitulate at 40 ptsElfsborgAddick said:With the exception of probably six clubs, however many seasons you have been in the Premier League you are only one season away from relegation if you get off to a bad start.A shame palice have never had that bad start
I may have to stand corrected but they have never been close to a relegation, and come Christmas they have not been bottom three. Either way, the pricks are still up there.
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usetobunkin said:My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt.
He was so disappointed when he left.I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
He did rub it in a bit when he came back with Newcastle. He hit a screamer into the Covered End and ran the length of the pitch to celebrate the goal with the Geordies.
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Which was fair enough with the dogs abuse he was getting from the home supportElfsborgAddick said:usetobunkin said:My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt.
He was so disappointed when he left.I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
He did rub it in a bit when he came back with Newcastle. He hit a screamer into the Covered End and ran the length of the pitch to celebrate the goal with the Geordies.3 -
If you listen to the Price of Football you can hear Kieran Maguire talking about the view of football finance people that the FAPL basically has three sub-divisions, but the top one only has 6-7.SporadicAddick said:
You could argue that "established" and "cemented" are two very different things.PragueAddick said:
That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.SporadicAddick said:
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
Leicester's successive Premier League positions after their last but one promotion were 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, followed by relegation, promotion and relegation.
Over a span of seven consecutive seasons in the Premier League, they finished in the top 10 five times. I'd say that was barely "established", let alone "cemented", as proven by them then coming 18th and relegated, then promoted, then relegated again. If you ask any fan today to name a "genuine top 10 club", I doubt few would reference Leicester.
Like Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Fulham, Charlton do not have the scale or infrastructure to cement or establish themselves as a genuine top 10 club, and we were never in danger of doing so.
The process of establishing a club at any given level requires - like any business - sensible management and the ability and willingness to invest in infrastructure. Plans were laid to increase the Valley capacity to 32,000 and eventually to 40,000. Even with the existing 27k we were hardly a long way behind Chelsea pre-Abramovic or West Ham pre - continuous State subsidy. We were unarguably already ahead of Fulham and Palace in 2004.
Tell me, if in 2004, somebody had told you that they have a premonition that in 20 years time Brentford and Bournemouth will be established FAPL clubs, what would you have said?
I think you are basing your viewpoint (perhaps unconsciously) on the past performances or achievements of clubs. I daresay you invest in financial instruments a bit, so you'll be familiar with the warning that past performance is no guarantee of future results.2 -
Many times, I have romanticised the thought of our prodigal son's return, and how he wins back our hearts by leading us to the top flight and make us a thorn in everyone's sides. Curbs 2.0.
But then, I am reminded that I have an appointment with reality.
Edit: typo0 -
I remember that,if I had scored that goal I would have done 10 laps of the pitch.ElfsborgAddick said:usetobunkin said:My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt.
He was so disappointed when he left.I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
He did rub it in a bit when he came back with Newcastle. He hit a screamer into the Covered End and ran the length of the pitch to celebrate the goal with the Geordies.2 -
The proposition being discussed wasn't becoming an established Premier League club, though, it was cementing a place as a genuine top 10 club, which neither Brentford nor Bournemouth have managed. If the original proposition had been becoming an established Premier League club, I doubt it would've been questioned. Short of a takeover by an oligarch or sovereign wealth fund, we were never likely to become a club that finished in the top 10 season after season - that's the preserve of those 6-7 clubs you mentioned at the start of your post.PragueAddick said:
If you listen to the Price of Football you can hear Kieran Maguire talking about the view of football finance people that the FAPL basically has three sub-divisions, but the top one only has 6-7.SporadicAddick said:
You could argue that "established" and "cemented" are two very different things.PragueAddick said:
That's way over the top. Simply replace the word "cemented" with "established" and the proposition is perfectly reasonable. That's not to say it would definitely have happened, but even the FAPL post- Abramovic contained at least some jeopardy. For example one of the clubs in your disparaging list went and won the bloody thing! And nobody - including its most high profile fan in the media - saw that coming.SporadicAddick said:
Lets dispel that myth...mascot88 said:If the cap fits let him wear it -
He exit was at a time when we were close to cementing ourselves as a genuine top 10 club - his talent was vast and we were never going to be able to replace him particularly in January.
We felt we deserved more as a club than him forcing a leave.
I don't resent him I just think he is characterless, his bizarre face irks me to this day.
And he got punished for poor decision - his career was nothing like what it should have been.
He proved to be the ceiling for us and it's be decline ever since that boxing day.
The season he left we finished 7th. Even if he had stayed and we finished 4th, and even if he had remained at the club for the following season(s), we wouldn't have have cemented ourselves as a top 10 club.
Club's the size of Charlton do not (and cannot) cement themselves at the top of any league.
Ask Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth, Fulham etc. etc.
Leicester's successive Premier League positions after their last but one promotion were 14th, 1st, 12th, 9th, 5th, 5th, 8th, followed by relegation, promotion and relegation.
Over a span of seven consecutive seasons in the Premier League, they finished in the top 10 five times. I'd say that was barely "established", let alone "cemented", as proven by them then coming 18th and relegated, then promoted, then relegated again. If you ask any fan today to name a "genuine top 10 club", I doubt few would reference Leicester.
Like Southampton, Sheffield Wednesday, Leicester, Bolton, Sunderland, Birmingham, Middlesbrough, Portsmouth and Fulham, Charlton do not have the scale or infrastructure to cement or establish themselves as a genuine top 10 club, and we were never in danger of doing so.
The process of establishing a club at any given level requires - like any business - sensible management and the ability and willingness to invest in infrastructure. Plans were laid to increase the Valley capacity to 32,000 and eventually to 40,000. Even with the existing 27k we were hardly a long way behind Chelsea pre-Abramovic or West Ham pre - continuous State subsidy. We were unarguably already ahead of Fulham and Palace in 2004.
Tell me, if in 2004, somebody had told you that they have a premonition that in 20 years time Brentford and Bournemouth will be established FAPL clubs, what would you have said?
I think you are basing your viewpoint (perhaps unconsciously) on the past performances or achievements of clubs. I daresay you invest in financial instruments a bit, so you'll be familiar with the warning that past performance is no guarantee of future results.1 -
That's just wanting to celebrate with his own fans, can understand that, not like he purposely ran to the halfway line and cupped his ears at us like Bonne did for Cambridge.ElfsborgAddick said:usetobunkin said:My pre teen son adored Parker and had him as his role model, with his name proudly printed on the back of his shirt.
He was so disappointed when he left.I didn’t have a problem with Parker moving on, it was just the manner in which he left.If he had asked for a loan back to complete the season I think he would have moved with our blessing. But his petulant attitude and behaviour stuck in most people throat.While coming back as a player I never abused him as I like to think that I am above that and you be a poor example to others. However I would draw the line at him managing us, however far into the future if ever.
He did rub it in a bit when he came back with Newcastle. He hit a screamer into the Covered End and ran the length of the pitch to celebrate the goal with the Geordies.1
