I'm sticking with the Octopus Tracker which I've been on for 2.5 years. Martin Lewis reckons it's been 30% cheaper than the capped price in the last 12 months.
I'm sticking with the Octopus Tracker which I've been on for 2.5 years. Martin Lewis reckons it's been 30% cheaper than the capped price in the last 12 months.
I've been on it a bit over a year, I also like the octotracker app, tells you everyday how the price compares.
Another increase, and the claim on tv news was because of the WHD?
Hang on a minute most of us pensioners will not get this till after Christmas if past payments are any guide. And iit is a bit rich that this is what we originally had! The current government made a decision to do this, yes the economy is in a mess, but to claw back money again before we even get it , seems a bit rich! Seems to me we are paying a premium for the race to get green, and although this is desirable , this race to reach this needs to be looked at, same with heat pumps and electric cars for me , is not realistic on my income. I never thought 15 years ago , that the Labour Party would behave like this?
The warm Home Discount is for people on low incomes, it is not the same as the Winter Fuel Payment for pensioners.
Our bills are linked to the most expensive form of energy and that is gas,which is linked to international markets. The sooner we improve the grid and move towards renewable energy , the cheaper our bills will become.
You are right, but I am on a low income and previously did get both!
The council also have reduced the qualification level based on savings to a very low level, I live in a victorian end of terrace, but I have a 'warm house' ? it is based on a complicated formula, and even my MP could not obtain it on our behalf. (there is a different criteria for each council)
If you think that energy prices are going down in any meaningful way in the next couple of years, by which time I will be in my late 70's, I do not think will cut in till a few years later. I do not have cavity walls, and a plastic poly carbon roof on my small conservatory, which I cannot get a grant for. So the heat conservation is the way to go, but no grants available. Yes, I have had the 'Green advisors down here'. got some pipe lagging, and reflective material for the back of the rads., not forgetting the draught proofing, 2 whole roles, ( I bought extra). So the 'rhetoric' by politicians in reality produces very little in my experience.
Of course the average bill, is another bit of nonsense, as it depends on several issues, and as an elderly person, with mobility issues my heating is above average. My EPC is 'C'. Like a lot of pensioners I fear the cold weather.
Just telling you as it is for myself, (both on full state pension's as we both worked).
Thanks for updating me about your situation, I do understand how you feel.
It is going to take time for the full effects of the move to renewable energy to be felt, but all the time we are reliant on purchasing gas on international markets, our bills will remain high. renewables are becoming more efficient and cheaper, we just need the supply infrastructure to be updated.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind the extortionate energy rates but if we’re over producing at certain times with wind turbines then why at those times of over production isn’t energy made free to certain lucky users ?
Bills are going up even though wholesale prices are coming down.
Reasons being 1: to pay wind turbines not to produce energy during surplus periods 2: to subsidise bills for low income households
They are reasons but not the main reasons. Bigger reasons being the marginal pricing mechanism which means that every unit of energy is paid for as though it is the most expensive unit of gas and the blatant profiteering of the energy companies.
On your points they don't pay the turbines to turn off. The companies that own them are paid for the energy produced even if its not used because the grid isn't able to handle it. That is only a short term problem because the grid infrastructure hasn't been upgraded to keep up with supply. When that is invested in alongside storage that problem goes entirely away.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind the extortionate energy rates but if we’re over producing at certain times with wind turbines then why at those times of over production isn’t energy made free to certain lucky users ?
It is. Octopus do multiple 'free hours' of energy use due to over production and some agile tarrifs pay the customer to use energy during over produced hours.
The reason they can do that is that their entire tech stack is modern and fleixible (founded in 2015) and not reliant on archaic system like British Gas and other incubmants.
As noted above, we will not get cheaper prices until we reduce our reliance on gas, which is a significant investment (as most of the UK has gas boliers and central heating), no matter how much renewables produce electricity. It is going to take a brave govt to get us there and not keep kicking the can down the road.
Bills are going up even though wholesale prices are coming down.
Reasons being 1: to pay wind turbines not to produce energy during surplus periods 2: to subsidise bills for low income households
They are reasons but not the main reasons. Bigger reasons being the marginal pricing mechanism which means that every unit of energy is paid for as though it is the most expensive unit of gas and the blatant profiteering of the energy companies.
On your points they don't pay the turbines to turn off. The companies that own them are paid for the energy produced even if its not used because the grid isn't able to handle it. That is only a short term problem because the grid infrastructure hasn't been upgraded to keep up with supply. When that is invested in alongside storage that problem goes entirely away.
When I say storage I don't necessarily mean lithium ion batteries (though in the short term they play a part). Solid state batteries will revolutionise the sector with massively more efficient batteries and less reliance on minerals. Technologies such as those one https://altilium.tech/ from a UK based company have found ways to recycle those rare Earth materials incredibly efficiently.
But also there are salt and air batteries being used that are mineral free.
The biggest impact I think will be large scale kinetic energy storage at source. These are being used large scale in Germany and other countries. Link below gives a lot of detail but effectively using gears and mechanics have a tower and concrete system based near the solar or wind far so when there is excess energy the concrete block is mechanically moved up the tower and held there and is then released when there is less energy production. The use of mechanics mean these can be 98% efficient. Similar ones exist that pump water up to a tank in a water tower and release it through turbines when needed.
Have also seen really coolversions of these that are built into a mini wind turbine (3 ft tall) with a bunch of marble type things in the shaft that are raised and lowered as kinetic energy storage. One of these on every house could be revolutionary.
Similarly bladeless turbines are now in use in Spain.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind the extortionate energy rates but if we’re over producing at certain times with wind turbines then why at those times of over production isn’t energy made free to certain lucky users ?
Octopus do offer free electricity sessions over and above what you would usually use in that hour. It's possibly about once a month. Edit - I see it's been mentioned already.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind the extortionate energy rates but if we’re over producing at certain times with wind turbines then why at those times of over production isn’t energy made free to certain lucky users ?
Posted this on the Climate Emergency thread. Getting away from fossil fuels isn’t easy either it seems. Trump is a lunatic.
Trump wants to kill clean energy abroad
President Trump is not just trying to stop the transition away from fossil fuels in the U.S. He is pressuring other countries to retreat from their climate pledges and burn more coal, gas and oil.
He is doing that by applying tariffs, levies and other mechanisms of the world’s biggest economy, my colleague Lisa Friedman reports from Washington. A White House spokesman said that the administration “will not jeopardize our country’s economic and national security to pursue vague climate goals.”
Here are some of the ways the Trump administration is trying to affect other countries’ climate policies:
The administration promised to apply tariffs, visa restrictions and port fees to countries that vote for a global agreement to slash greenhouse gas emissions from shipping.
Virtually all of the administration’s trade deals include requirements that trading partners buy vast amounts of U.S. oil and gas.
The administration joined oil-producing countries like Saudi Arabia to oppose limits on the production of petroleum-based plastics.
Energy experts and European officials called the level of pressure Trump is exerting on other countries worrisome. Scientists widely agree that to avoid worsening consequences of climate change, countries need to rapidly transition away from fossil fuels to clean energy sources like wind, solar, geothermal power and hydropower.
The Times are reporting that £15 of the £35 increase in the cap is in respect of paying the wind farms to turn themselves off because of over production.
I don’t even pretend to understand the reasons behind the extortionate energy rates but if we’re over producing at certain times with wind turbines then why at those times of over production isn’t energy made free to certain lucky users ?
It is. Octopus do multiple 'free hours' of energy use due to over production and some agile tarrifs pay the customer to use energy during over produced hours.
The reason they can do that is that their entire tech stack is modern and fleixible (founded in 2015) and not reliant on archaic system like British Gas and other incubmants.
As noted above, we will not get cheaper prices until we reduce our reliance on gas, which is a significant investment (as most of the UK has gas boliers and central heating), no matter how much renewables produce electricity. It is going to take a brave govt to get us there and not keep kicking the can down the road.
Nonsense I’m afraid. I’m with British Gas and regularly get offers of free and discounted windows.
Indeed half price for a few hours this afternoon!
its my understanding all utility companies incentivise windows to influence demand.
After all the energy to my property is likely / potentially the same source as you. It’s just who I pay for it measured via my smart meter.
Octopus as far as I’m aware offer occasional free electricity when measured over and above your regular usage for the same period. Not quite the same thing as free electricity. I have opted into that scheme and encouraged the missus to do her washing or drying during what is normally an hours window and in about five goes have accrued about 13p.
Octopus as far as I’m aware offer occasional free electricity when measured over and above your regular usage for the same period. Not quite the same thing as free electricity. I have opted into that scheme and encouraged the missus to do her washing or drying during what is normally an hours window and in about five goes have accrued about 13p.
Yes it's not much, but if you consider my household spends £60pm on electricity, so £2 per day. If we're active for say 17 hours, our electricity on average is 12p per hour.
I’m on Octopus Tracker and currently during this summer period I am using £100 per month electricity and £30 for gas. In the colder winter months my bill rockets but I have little choice other than keep the heat up. I have a disabled daughter who when at home is mostly sedentary and likewise my soon to be 92 year old mum living in her granny annexe. January 2025 I paid £167 electricity and £236 Gas. Energy prices for me are a very major consideration.
Just to weigh in on this, the average UK energy bill is made up of 3 components:
1. Wholesale energy prices, for gas it's dependent on international markets mainly, for power is more dependent on gas price + domestic wind/solar production
2. Transportation and balancing costs, it takes money to maintain all the pilons and gas pipes without anything exploding
3. Subsidies, it also cost money to convince renewable developers to build their wind/solar sites in the UK, this money doesn't come from tax revenues, it gets added to end user bills instead
So just because wholesale prices drop, does not mean end user bills drop, in fact, by increasing renewable generation, you increase balancing and subsidy costs, so numbers 2 and 3 above will increase, whilst number 1 decreases.
The road to net 0 will not decrease bills in the next 20 years, it'll decrease bills after that in general, and hopefully environmental damage.
In my opinion, it's a price we have to pay now for future generations.
Just to weigh in on this, the average UK energy bill is made up of 3 components:
1. Wholesale energy prices, for gas it's dependent on international markets mainly, for power is more dependent on gas price + domestic wind/solar production
2. Transportation and balancing costs, it takes money to maintain all the pilons and gas pipes without anything exploding
3. Subsidies, it also cost money to convince renewable developers to build their wind/solar sites in the UK, this money doesn't come from tax revenues, it gets added to end user bills instead
So just because wholesale prices drop, does not mean end user bills drop, in fact, by increasing renewable generation, you increase balancing and subsidy costs, so numbers 2 and 3 above will increase, whilst number 1 decreases.
The road to net 0 will not decrease bills in the next 20 years, it'll decrease bills after that in general, and hopefully environmental damage.
In my opinion, it's a price we have to pay now for future generations.
Isn't there a 4th point though in the Oct energy cap
4. Pay for benefits for those less fortunate (elderly, low income).
In the past, this would come from tax revenue, however, it now appears to be added as a stealth tax to energy bills.
About £1.42 a month of the (£35) increase will fund the government's extension of the Warm Home Discount, giving money off winter bills for people on some benefits
I believe this is the first time I remember seeing a benefit explictly stated as part of an increase in energy bills.
Just to weigh in on this, the average UK energy bill is made up of 3 components:
1. Wholesale energy prices, for gas it's dependent on international markets mainly, for power is more dependent on gas price + domestic wind/solar production
2. Transportation and balancing costs, it takes money to maintain all the pilons and gas pipes without anything exploding
3. Subsidies, it also cost money to convince renewable developers to build their wind/solar sites in the UK, this money doesn't come from tax revenues, it gets added to end user bills instead
So just because wholesale prices drop, does not mean end user bills drop, in fact, by increasing renewable generation, you increase balancing and subsidy costs, so numbers 2 and 3 above will increase, whilst number 1 decreases.
The road to net 0 will not decrease bills in the next 20 years, it'll decrease bills after that in general, and hopefully environmental damage.
In my opinion, it's a price we have to pay now for future generations.
The subsidies point is a rather frustrating misleading one though.
£2.4bn last year went on subsidies to renewables. Compare that to the £17.5 billion paid out in the same period in UK subsidies to fossil fuel companies (out of £7 trillion globally). These are huge multinationals making tens trillions in profit not innovating and not developing new technology or a public good. So no reason for these subsidies.
It's is only by choice that the government puts the cost for one of these onto the consumers bills and the other is paid for out of general taxation. Imagine if the fossil fuel subsidies had always been paid for out of bills. Imagine the outrage. We would all be calling for renewables. But because that is indirectly paid and more murky no one seems up in arms.
Comments
Martin Lewis reckons it's been 30% cheaper than the capped price in the last 12 months.
It is going to take time for the full effects of the move to renewable energy to be felt, but all the time we are reliant on purchasing gas on international markets, our bills will remain high. renewables are becoming more efficient and cheaper, we just need the supply infrastructure to be updated.
On your points they don't pay the turbines to turn off. The companies that own them are paid for the energy produced even if its not used because the grid isn't able to handle it. That is only a short term problem because the grid infrastructure hasn't been upgraded to keep up with supply. When that is invested in alongside storage that problem goes entirely away.
The reason they can do that is that their entire tech stack is modern and fleixible (founded in 2015) and not reliant on archaic system like British Gas and other incubmants.
As noted above, we will not get cheaper prices until we reduce our reliance on gas, which is a significant investment (as most of the UK has gas boliers and central heating), no matter how much renewables produce electricity. It is going to take a brave govt to get us there and not keep kicking the can down the road.
But also there are salt and air batteries being used that are mineral free.
https://ctif.org/news/new-salt-and-air-based-bess-being-commercially-developed-germany
The biggest impact I think will be large scale kinetic energy storage at source. These are being used large scale in Germany and other countries. Link below gives a lot of detail but effectively using gears and mechanics have a tower and concrete system based near the solar or wind far so when there is excess energy the concrete block is mechanically moved up the tower and held there and is then released when there is less energy production. The use of mechanics mean these can be 98% efficient. Similar ones exist that pump water up to a tank in a water tower and release it through turbines when needed.
Have also seen really coolversions of these that are built into a mini wind turbine (3 ft tall) with a bunch of marble type things in the shaft that are raised and lowered as kinetic energy storage. One of these on every house could be revolutionary.
Similarly bladeless turbines are now in use in Spain.
https://interreg-danube.eu/projects/storemore/news/gravity-energy-storage-harnessing-the-power-of-nature-for-a-sustainable-future
It's possibly about once a month. Edit - I see it's been mentioned already.
Posted this on the Climate Emergency thread. Getting away from fossil fuels isn’t easy either it seems. Trump is a lunatic.
Trump wants to kill clean energy abroad
President Trump is not just trying to stop the transition away from fossil fuels in the U.S. He is pressuring other countries to retreat from their climate pledges and burn more coal, gas and oil.
He is doing that by applying tariffs, levies and other mechanisms of the world’s biggest economy, my colleague Lisa Friedman reports from Washington. A White House spokesman said that the administration “will not jeopardize our country’s economic and national security to pursue vague climate goals.”
Here are some of the ways the Trump administration is trying to affect other countries’ climate policies:
Energy experts and European officials called the level of pressure Trump is exerting on other countries worrisome. Scientists widely agree that to avoid worsening consequences of climate change, countries need to rapidly transition away from fossil fuels to clean energy sources like wind, solar, geothermal power and hydropower.
I'm switching to Octopus. Can someone PM me a referral code, if poss? (ed - received, thanks)
its my understanding all utility companies incentivise windows to influence demand.
If we're active for say 17 hours, our electricity on average is 12p per hour.
January - electricity £103 gas £180
August - electricity £71 gas £18.
1. Wholesale energy prices, for gas it's dependent on international markets mainly, for power is more dependent on gas price + domestic wind/solar production
2. Transportation and balancing costs, it takes money to maintain all the pilons and gas pipes without anything exploding
3. Subsidies, it also cost money to convince renewable developers to build their wind/solar sites in the UK, this money doesn't come from tax revenues, it gets added to end user bills instead
So just because wholesale prices drop, does not mean end user bills drop, in fact, by increasing renewable generation, you increase balancing and subsidy costs, so numbers 2 and 3 above will increase, whilst number 1 decreases.
The road to net 0 will not decrease bills in the next 20 years, it'll decrease bills after that in general, and hopefully environmental damage.
In my opinion, it's a price we have to pay now for future generations.
4. Pay for benefits for those less fortunate (elderly, low income).
In the past, this would come from tax revenue, however, it now appears to be added as a stealth tax to energy bills.
From this article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78zgz7j576o
- About £1.42 a month of the (£35) increase will fund the government's extension of the Warm Home Discount, giving money off winter bills for people on some benefits
I believe this is the first time I remember seeing a benefit explictly stated as part of an increase in energy bills.£2.4bn last year went on subsidies to renewables. Compare that to the £17.5 billion paid out in the same period in UK subsidies to fossil fuel companies (out of £7 trillion globally). These are huge multinationals making tens trillions in profit not innovating and not developing new technology or a public good. So no reason for these subsidies.