There's some ridiculous defensiveness here about Kelman.
At the moment he looks less effective than our other options for the front two, TC, Miles and Tanto, whether down to fitness, or how they suit our system. That's not me writing Kelman off, that's me wanting us to play our current best 11 on Saturday in a tough away game. With the way we play, the physicality of Miles or Tanto will cause defenders more problems, and hold the ball up better. Godden fitted the Nathan Jones way of playing better than Alfie May, as he's more physical and can hold the ball up.
Yes Kelman was a big money signing, but Tanto was around £1.5m so hardly signed to be a backup either. And how much are TC and Miles worth? A fit and firing Miles will be worth way more than Kelman in a year's time.
I'm not having this 'Kelman can't play alongside TC' stuff. Not for a second. Kelman was the sole striker for Orient with two wingers playing off him in a 4231 which is essentially what we are in possession. Kelman has hardly played, didn't have the best game against Watford but looked like he needed to build fitness so I'm sure there's more to come, but it's hilarious that people have somehow made that performance Campbell's fault. I thought Kelman showed a couple of moments last night that were encouraging. Scrapped a bit with a Stevenage player in our half, showed great feet out wide to win a free kick and latched onto a chance like a proper poaching striker. He'll get fitter, he'll work on his movement which so far seems to be the problem and no doubt he'll get better.
So far we've played two games and already there's people out for Kelman, TC and Docherty. I don't understand the need to always have a problem that needs worrying about, just enjoy the football.
The way Orient build up play is so so different to us though. So playing that role for Orient and playing it for us are totally different
There's some ridiculous defensiveness here about Kelman.
At the moment he looks less effective than our other options for the front two, TC, Miles and Tanto, whether down to fitness, or how they suit our system. That's not me writing Kelman off, that's me wanting us to play our current best 11 on Saturday in a tough away game. With the way we play, the physicality of Miles or Tanto will cause defenders more problems, and hold the ball up better. Godden fitted the Nathan Jones way of playing better than Alfie May, as he's more physical and can hold the ball up.
Yes Kelman was a big money signing, but Tanto was around £1.5m so hardly signed to be a backup either. And how much are TC and Miles worth? A fit and firing Miles will be worth way more than Kelman in a year's time.
Exactly. No one is saying he’s shit, writing him off or saying the signing will fail. Just saying exactly what was being said before we signed him, he is not Godden! If we play the way we did with Godden there and put Kelman there instead, it won’t work. Hopefully that isn’t the plan but based on the limited evidence so far, it might be
Godden was brilliant at winning flick ons and battling defenders. I’m sure Kelman will improve at that but that’s not going to happen overnight, so at the moment we need to adapt to him. Long balls need to go to the channels rather than to Kelman, it’s a simple fix but at the moment we haven’t given him that
There's some ridiculous defensiveness here about Kelman.
At the moment he looks less effective than our other options for the front two, TC, Miles and Tanto, whether down to fitness, or how they suit our system. That's not me writing Kelman off, that's me wanting us to play our current best 11 on Saturday in a tough away game. With the way we play, the physicality of Miles or Tanto will cause defenders more problems, and hold the ball up better. Godden fitted the Nathan Jones way of playing better than Alfie May, as he's more physical and can hold the ball up.
Yes Kelman was a big money signing, but Tanto was around £1.5m so hardly signed to be a backup either. And how much are TC and Miles worth? A fit and firing Miles will be worth way more than Kelman in a year's time.
spot on - a blind man could see he's been a bit of a passenger so far - that isn't writing him off or slagging him off - that's commenting on what we've seen so far - nobody is suggesting he won't come good
Was asked what I thought about Kelman in June before we even were linked and at the time I said I wasn’t sure where he would fit the system. Godden managed to fit the system after Nathan Jones realised how deceptively good he was with his head and with his back to goal. I don’t know if Kelman has developed those qualities yet.
The fact he’s not previously done it at this level (yes he’s young) and we paid a big fee for him does not help with my anxiety around this transfer.
Was asked what I thought about Kelman in June before we even were linked and at the time I said I wasn’t sure where he would fit the system. Godden managed to fit the system after Nathan Jones realised how deceptively good he was with his head and with his back to goal. I don’t know if Kelman has developed those qualities yet.
The fact he’s not previously done it at this level (yes he’s young) and we paid a big fee for him does not help with my anxiety around this transfer.
I hope it’s misplaced.
If you’d asked any fan on here last season, who would you rather have up front Kelman or Godden. Then nearly everyone would say Godden, for exactly that reason in that his attributes fit the role
We clearly wanted Kelman and have a plan for him. My assumption was that he would play the other striker role, so next to Godden/Leaburn but so far that hasn’t been the case
Maybe our plan is far more long term, we want him to develop his aerial and back to goal ability so that he can play Godden’s role. I am fine with that because if successful then he will be worth more than £3.5m, but in the short term for this season he could struggle with that role
Was asked what I thought about Kelman in June before we even were linked and at the time I said I wasn’t sure where he would fit the system. Godden managed to fit the system after Nathan Jones realised how deceptively good he was with his head and with his back to goal. I don’t know if Kelman has developed those qualities yet.
The fact he’s not previously done it at this level (yes he’s young) and we paid a big fee for him does not help with my anxiety around this transfer.
I hope it’s misplaced.
If you’d asked any fan on here last season, who would you rather have up front Kelman or Godden. Then nearly everyone would say Godden, for exactly that reason in that his attributes fit the role
We clearly wanted Kelman and have a plan for him. My assumption was that he would play the other striker role, so next to Godden/Leaburn but so far that hasn’t been the case
Maybe our plan is far more long term, we want him to develop his aerial and back to goal ability so that he can play Godden’s role. I am fine with that because if successful then he will be worth more than £3.5m, but in the short term for this season he could struggle with that role
This is my current belief, he's not been bought (just) for what he does but what we hope he WILL do. Kelman himself has professed admiration for Godden, he probably is open to learning and development to improve aspects of his game.
I was sitting in the rear section to the left of the directors box last night. Somewhere not far behind me was a man with a loud voice who stuck out because of his lone, rather embarrassing effing and blinding. His especial vitriol was aimed at Charlie Kelman who apparently was a lazy useless (unt, and effing this, and a useless effing that. Those around me exchanged the eye rolling expressions of discomfort regarding this man, there were young kids around us. I wish his abuse could’ve been less sweary and more creative and poetic rather than discomforting for those nearby.
Important game last night tbf, I can understand why he was a bit frustrated............................
Was asked what I thought about Kelman in June before we even were linked and at the time I said I wasn’t sure where he would fit the system. Godden managed to fit the system after Nathan Jones realised how deceptively good he was with his head and with his back to goal. I don’t know if Kelman has developed those qualities yet.
The fact he’s not previously done it at this level (yes he’s young) and we paid a big fee for him does not help with my anxiety around this transfer.
I hope it’s misplaced.
If you’d asked any fan on here last season, who would you rather have up front Kelman or Godden. Then nearly everyone would say Godden, for exactly that reason in that his attributes fit the role
We clearly wanted Kelman and have a plan for him. My assumption was that he would play the other striker role, so next to Godden/Leaburn but so far that hasn’t been the case
Maybe our plan is far more long term, we want him to develop his aerial and back to goal ability so that he can play Godden’s role. I am fine with that because if successful then he will be worth more than £3.5m, but in the short term for this season he could struggle with that role
This is my current belief, he's not been bought (just) for what he does but what we hope he WILL do. Kelman himself has professed admiration for Godden, he probably is open to learning and development to improve aspects of his game.
Yeah that makes the most sense. I just wouldn’t be starting him and expecting him to do all of that now though. If he starts it should be with Godden or Leaburn
I don’t think Kelman is a better striker in that role than Godden or Leaburn are at the moment. But I do think he could definitely be a better option than TC and Olaofe for the second spot, so I’d rather he played there while we develop him to take over from Godden. Maybe when Godden returns we will see that change
I would prefer the striker who got his team to Wembley, won the golden boot by scoring for his team 21 goals, with only one being a penalty, compared to the striker who went missing for more than half a season and was completely anonymous over two legs in a play-off semi final, who resorted to cheating and should have been sent off.
I prefer the striker our manager specifically targeted for months as he knows he is the right man for the job.
It's like admiring a pisshead eating a big mac when you've got a cooked 8oz steak sitting for you at home.
Richard kone just signed for QPR with the kelman money. Who would you rather have? Kelman or kone?
Kelman, scored consistently throughout the season in a team that wasn't anywhere near as good as Wycombe were over the course of the season. Kelman's attitude and temperament haven't been in question either, whereas the Kone we witnessed against us was nothing short of a diving, cheating, aggressive idiot that was in Jones' pocket all the time and acted out because of it
I’ll defend Kone, he’s a good player, with a potentially high ceiling. He as well as the whole Wycombe team suffered from Bloomfield going, Dodds is an appalling manager, and no one will look good in his teams
Some of the comments in the past few days are nothing but an insult to Kelman. Oh well, at least it's easy to note which posters follow themselves rather than their club and players.
I’ll defend Kone, he’s a good player, with a potentially high ceiling. He as well as the whole Wycombe team suffered from Bloomfield going, Dodds is an appalling manager, and no one will look good in his teams
Shocked Dodds is still there. Their fans absolutely hate his style of play and I thought the PO semi might have given them an easy out.
Anyone care to guess who this was said of in his early days with us?
"First game where I've had serious doubts. Made the comparison of Simon Church but at least May has a stronger shot."
"Offside all the time. I'm really not sure."
"Can’t believe he scored 20 goals last season. Nothing against his work-rate, but don’t have the composure of other good Charlton strikers of the past."
"Has to score there. Shocking miss"
"I'm more concerned than others on here, all the talk of no service, no-one playing alongside him etc etc but at the end of the day a good goalscorer takes chances, and he had 3 today and didn't take any."
"Reminds me of Ajose a bit. Hopefully there’s a happier ending."
"I thought he was awful. Very little skill and a complete lack of composure."
To which I replied:
"What I really don't understand is why people suddenly believe that he isn't the striker he was last season? Same division and he scored 22 times for a team that finished six places below us. That included goals as well as against us (2), Plymouth (2), Derby (1), Wednesday (1), Peterborough (3), Ipswich (1) and Wycombe (2) - that's 12 goals against sides in the top 10 of which 4 were against the three promoted sides.
Even Killer used to miss sitters. It's an occupational hazard of a striker. Equally, last season he scored one in his first seven matches. The only thing that will stop him will be a lack of service or a complete loss of confidence due to being Charltonised."
So perhaps we should afford Kelman the courtesy of giving him a chance too?
I'm amazed at how many people seem to have had doubts months ago when they first heard about the deal. I don't remember seeing any rumours (or doubts) about Kelman on the rumours thread until a week or so before he signed.
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
I don't see Kelman and Kone as being particularly like for like. Our "equivalent" to Kone is Olaofe and I reckon we're going to do pretty well out of it.
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
How about the fact that Jones had him in his pocket every time we played them.
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
How about the fact that Jones had him in his pocket every time we played them.
You can’t judge a players potential ability from 2 poor games. Kone’s potential is more around his physical profile anyway, he is exactly what teams are looking for physically from a modern striker.
I’d also point out the game at the valley where Kone turned Jones and scored a great goal so you’re even wrong about that
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
I don't see Kelman and Kone as being particularly like for like. Our "equivalent" to Kone is Olaofe and I reckon we're going to do pretty well out of it.
I think we can increase value on Kelman if we improve his all-round game. I just think Kone’s ceiling is much higher than any of our strikers, other than Leaburn if he could stay injury free for a long period
Some of the comments in the past few days are nothing but an insult to Kelman. Oh well, at least it's easy to note which posters follow themselves rather than their club and players.
How is someone saying that they'd prefer Miles or Godden up front to him, an insult to Kelman? None of the comments in the last 2 pages have slagged off Kelman, called him useless or lazy. It's just been people preferring other members of our squad at the moment.
Ditto preferring Kone to Kelman, which even if you disagree, if a perfectly reasonable position to take. The likes of Swansea and Leicester were after Kone, whereas our rival for Kelman was L1 Luton.
Kone is a better signing than Kelman. I don’t think Kone would have signed for us though, he will be worth at least £10m in the future so was always going to have interest from more established championship teams. QPR have done well there
How about the fact that Jones had him in his pocket every time we played them.
You can’t judge a players potential ability from 2 poor games. Kone’s potential is more around his physical profile anyway, he is exactly what teams are looking for physically from a modern striker.
I’d also point out the game at the valley where Kone turned Jones and scored a great goal so you’re even wrong about that
No he didn't. He sent Alex Mitchell before placing it.
Can't call someone out when you haven't checked something like that, come on.
Comments
I bet you he will be on 10 goals by Christmas!
At the moment he looks less effective than our other options for the front two, TC, Miles and Tanto, whether down to fitness, or how they suit our system. That's not me writing Kelman off, that's me wanting us to play our current best 11 on Saturday in a tough away game. With the way we play, the physicality of Miles or Tanto will cause defenders more problems, and hold the ball up better. Godden fitted the Nathan Jones way of playing better than Alfie May, as he's more physical and can hold the ball up.
Yes Kelman was a big money signing, but Tanto was around £1.5m so hardly signed to be a backup either. And how much are TC and Miles worth? A fit and firing Miles will be worth way more than Kelman in a year's time.
The fact he’s not previously done it at this level (yes he’s young) and we paid a big fee for him does not help with my anxiety around this transfer.
I hope it’s misplaced.
We clearly wanted Kelman and have a plan for him. My assumption was that he would play the other striker role, so next to Godden/Leaburn but so far that hasn’t been the case
Maybe our plan is far more long term, we want him to develop his aerial and back to goal ability so that he can play Godden’s role. I am fine with that because if successful then he will be worth more than £3.5m, but in the short term for this season he could struggle with that role
Important game last night tbf, I can understand why he was a bit frustrated............................
I don’t think Kelman is a better striker in that role than Godden or Leaburn are at the moment. But I do think he could definitely be a better option than TC and Olaofe for the second spot, so I’d rather he played there while we develop him to take over from Godden. Maybe when Godden returns we will see that change
I prefer the striker our manager specifically targeted for months as he knows he is the right man for the job.
It's like admiring a pisshead eating a big mac when you've got a cooked 8oz steak sitting for you at home.
"First game where I've had serious doubts. Made the comparison of Simon Church but at least May has a stronger shot."
"Offside all the time. I'm really not sure."
"Can’t believe he scored 20 goals last season. Nothing against his work-rate, but don’t have the composure of other good Charlton strikers of the past."
"Has to score there. Shocking miss"
"I'm more concerned than others on here, all the talk of no service, no-one playing alongside him etc etc but at the end of the day a good goalscorer takes chances, and he had 3 today and didn't take any."
"Reminds me of Ajose a bit. Hopefully there’s a happier ending."
"I thought he was awful. Very little skill and a complete lack of composure."
To which I replied:
"What I really don't understand is why people suddenly believe that he isn't the striker he was last season? Same division and he scored 22 times for a team that finished six places below us. That included goals as well as against us (2), Plymouth (2), Derby (1), Wednesday (1), Peterborough (3), Ipswich (1) and Wycombe (2) - that's 12 goals against sides in the top 10 of which 4 were against the three promoted sides.
Even Killer used to miss sitters. It's an occupational hazard of a striker. Equally, last season he scored one in his first seven matches. The only thing that will stop him will be a lack of service or a complete loss of confidence due to being Charltonised."
So perhaps we should afford Kelman the courtesy of giving him a chance too?
How about the fact that Jones had him in his pocket every time we played them.
Jesus Wept! Give the fella a chance.
Ditto preferring Kone to Kelman, which even if you disagree, if a perfectly reasonable position to take. The likes of Swansea and Leicester were after Kone, whereas our rival for Kelman was L1 Luton.
Can't call someone out when you haven't checked something like that, come on.