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Charlie Kirk (p68 - released by Barrow)
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Vardy has to keep focussed mate the way his thick bint of a missed keeps running up legal bills lolAddick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life6 -
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.
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I can't disagree with anything you say especially in relation to how someone might react following the death of a close relative.Radostanradical said:
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.
The Academy head I referred to wasn't connected to football. One has to accept that It is human nature for a coach to have some unconscious or even conscious bias if only for the fact that they know the inns and outs of that player. How many has Jones brought in, for example, purely because of that? One would expect that he would favour Luke Berry, for example over someone of a similar calibre he knew little about.
One thing I would add about youngsters is that they do develop at different rates. There is another aspect and that is size (Vardy was released because he was considered too small to make a pro) which can also be linked to when a child is born given there is a disproportionate number of kids with birthdays in the first quarter that are selected ahead of all others. One would imagine that Ferdinand would have been at the taller end of the scale anyway as a school boy and if we consider his birthday is on 7th November then he was probably one of the biggest of that age group. It's only with the advent of the likes of Messi that things have changed in recent years.1 -
I saw Rio Ferdinand play on a very regular basis when he was 13, 14, 15. He was an attacking midfielder and was very very good even at school district level so no idea when he was meant to be ponyRadostanradical said:
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.2 -
One of the very worst signings I have ever seen.
When you think of the song and dance we had to go through to sign him, it wasn’t long before we became nonplussed in a very short length of time….fella was absolute pants in every conceivable way possible.
No sympathy from me whatsoever.🤨2 -
Well as said i only had this guys word for it but one could equally argue that school district level is still some way off the national youth level, however i have never seen him play as a youth. All that said I believe the guy I spoke to played with him at U15s levelJohnnyH2 said:
I saw Rio Ferdinand play on a very regular basis when he was 13, 14, 15. He was an attacking midfielder and was very very good even at school district level so no idea when he was meant to be ponyRadostanradical said:
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.0 -
He was in a good enough frame of mind to sign a contract boosting his bank balance considerably.SoundAsa£ said:One of the very worst signings I have ever seen.
When you think of the song and dance we had to go through to sign him, it wasn’t long before we became nonplussed in a very short length of time….fella was absolute pants in every conceivable way possible.
No sympathy from me whatsoever.🤨2 -
Could make a good squad player6
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In those days the pro clubs could not have access to the players like they do now, so all the top players played district, and like I say he was very good. He did also play County but I never saw any of those gamesRadostanradical said:
Well as said i only had this guys word for it but one could equally argue that school district level is still some way off the national youth level, however i have never seen him play as a youth. All that said I believe the guy I spoke to played with him at U15s levelJohnnyH2 said:
I saw Rio Ferdinand play on a very regular basis when he was 13, 14, 15. He was an attacking midfielder and was very very good even at school district level so no idea when he was meant to be ponyRadostanradical said:
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.2 -
He was small , I heard . Someone that talented could never have been “pony” .JohnnyH2 said:
I saw Rio Ferdinand play on a very regular basis when he was 13, 14, 15. He was an attacking midfielder and was very very good even at school district level so no idea when he was meant to be ponyRadostanradical said:
To be honest I don't think lack of connections in the game (or those around you having them) make a huge difference, football really is one of the last true meritocracies still around. You may get your foot through the door due to a connection but if you're not good enough your not good enough. For example I know someone who was dropped by Charlton in favour of Dean Kiely's son, of course the noise from his family was that it was nepotism but one sincerely doubts that if the dropped boy was a prodigal talent he A) would of been dropped in the first place, as its literally the coaches job at that level to find talent that can progress or B even if it was nepotism another club wouldn't of picked him up.Addick Addict said:
But that's the thing. We are all different. I've seen quite a few sportsmen in real life where certain struggles have got the better of them. And you or I can't change what is going on in their mind or the circumstances that caused them to act that way.AndyG said:
Not sure you can classify Delli Alli in the same category mate he was financially secure I would think maybe that doesn’t have any effect but I know for sure if I had that chance I would do everything I could to earn as much as I could while I could. Not reach 30 odd and think right what do I do now to earn a livingAddick Addict said:There are two things all athletes need to have - ability and desire. He had the ability but has clearly lost, for whatever the reason, that desire. Delli Alli appears to be a similar story albeit from a much higher base. Only that person truly knows why that has happened.
We all see the end product. Good or bad. Sometimes the bad is an accumulative thing. We never see that journey or the hard yards. As one head of an academy said to me once "these lads are all talented because they wouldn't be here if they weren't but do they have that desire to become a professional and all that entails". Equally and the flipside, I know of one lad who wasn't given the opportunities in one particular sport that others of less ability were simply because those others were more advantaged in terms of "connections" within the game. That really does happen. Eventually, the rejection got too much for him and he turned to another sport, one that he can practice to the cows come home on his own and not have to be "selected" to be successful. And he's doing very well too. He still carries the scars of all that went on before but that is his driver now. I always use Vardy as an example of someone who had to do it the hard way and appreciates all that he had to do to get there and never want to go back to his previous life
What is true though is that a lot can depend on opinions for example in Dubai a few years back I got speaking to a guy who played for Bromley, Orient, Millwall as a striker (Kevin something, I didn't get his surname was around early 40s id guess), he told me he played at school boy level with Rio Ferdinand (provided what he told me was actually true but must say he came across very convincing) and that Ferdinand was absolute pony back then but clearly someone saw something in him, where as multiple didn't see it with Vardy, however id guess that many people being wrong is an anomaly.
The last point id make about Kirk and his fathers passing (not that you have said it @Addick Addict but others have) is that resilience both mental and physical is an attribute like any other, there's no shame in taking something harder than others in an never ending set of circumstances to that can affect. We wouldn't question a players desire if say he was injury prone. I've known people who have never got over the death of loved one and others that were fine within a month.0 - Sponsored links:
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Time for him to rebuild his career, good luck to him9
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6th club in 5 years I think?0
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I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea but good to see Altrincham making their feeling known on Jim Davidson.AberystwythAddick said:
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Alright, post of the year0
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How the mighty have fallen.0
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Following in the footsteps of Matt Penney.0
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I suppose leaving by a barrow is more dignified than leaving by the laundry basket..but not much
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I think he may be getting close to his level now but not quite there yet.0
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Given the mess Morecambe are in and the fact Oldham got promotion it was always going to be either Altrincham or Rochdale.DyerConsequences said:Given where he seems to want to be (geographically), Morecambe, Altrincham or Oldham or Rochdale (if those 2 don't go up via the playoffs) would probably be his best bet if he can somehow convince one of those to give him a contract.0 -
I know Kirk gets a lot of grief on here because he wasn’t good enough for us. However, if anybody has met him in person, knows he is a very nice individual who was well liked by his teammates.for that reason, I hope he gets his career back on track and finds a level football where he can succeed.17
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Fuck him, his attitude is a disgrace.
found his level, the jobber5 -
Found Charlie's account on here...cafc4life said:Fuck him, his attitude is a disgrace.
found his level, the jobber
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Just because o can’t be arsed to scroll to find a Sam Lavelle thread his appearance on I had trials once is quite interesting, especially his time at Charlton and relationship with Kirk.5
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He always dreamed of playing at JDavidsonsCrap Stadium3
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At least Kirk has secured employment, albeit at non-league level and presumably for a year at this stage.
Our other 'big' signing in recent League 1 years, Scott Fraser, is now without a club, having left Dundee after only 5 appearances.2 -
Appreciate this isn't a very common opinion, I think we let him down pastorally. I'm certain he didnt help himself either at times however if there is an age when you need your role model and Charlie Kirks role model was his dad it is in your early twenties. I’ve heard it from a couple of places he didn’t get any support from the club when I think its fair to say he needed it. This isnt "im in the know" stuff because I am not and the sources who have aired this thought have done so in the public realm.11
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I would have thought Tracey Leaburn would have been around for him.Carter said:Appreciate this isn't a very common opinion, I think we let him down pastorally. I'm certain he didnt help himself either at times however if there is an age when you need your role model and Charlie Kirks role model was his dad it is in your early twenties. I’ve heard it from a couple of places he didn’t get any support from the club when I think its fair to say he needed it. This isnt "im in the know" stuff because I am not and the sources who have aired this thought have done so in the public realm.6
This discussion has been closed.
