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The Future Structure Of English League Football

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  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,877
    EveshamAddick said:
    sam3110 said:
    Should be 3 up 3 down all the way through, why is PL to championship 3, then 3 between that and League 1, but 4 between League 1 and League 2? Then just 2 from League 2 to non-league. 
    And get rid of the play offs. Revert back to 3 auto positions.
    Do you still stand by this?
  • clb74
    clb74 Posts: 10,824
    Todds_right_hook said:
    EveshamAddick said:
    sam3110 said:
    Should be 3 up 3 down all the way through, why is PL to championship 3, then 3 between that and League 1, but 4 between League 1 and League 2? Then just 2 from League 2 to non-league. 
    And get rid of the play offs. Revert back to 3 auto positions.
    Do you still stand by this?
    The 3 best teams after 46 games getting promoted.
    Nothing wrong with that.
    Mad when you think about a whole season can finish with a penalty kick.

  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,835
    ForeverAddickted said:
    I think the National League Play-Off idea is pretty good, where its 2nd down to 7th

    The teams in 2nd / 3rd dont play until the Semi-Finals, so they've played a game less than those who finished between 4th and 7th

    Trouble is if you do that in the EFL, its 8th (and 9th in League Two) that could get promoted.

    Guess the other idea is that 3rd placed team get a bye straight to the Final. The rest of the Play-Offs are 4th vs 7th - 5th vs 6th, via. the normal Play-Off method, with the winner of those two games, facing off against 3rd at Wembley
    Having one game fewer was no benefit in the NL where York City and FGR had a ridiculous gap of 15/16 days between games. That's the sort of gap that's a handicap, as the players lose their sharpness. Their opponents had a 6 day gap before the semi finals, which means that tiredness wasn't an issue for them.

    It's only a benefit if the games are crammed together, so tiredness becomes more of a handicap for the lower placed team.


  • Woodwork
    Woodwork Posts: 423
    If the American owners taking over English football had their way, they’d probably prefer a play-off system to decide the English champions. Two divisions of 16 clubs - A Premier League North & PL South. With Rangers and Celtic invited. No relegation. The 4 or 5 with the most points in either division qualify for Champions League. To decide the overall champions, the top 8 from each division play each other over two legs in a knockout competition - last 16, QF, SF, Final. 1st in PL North play 8th in PL South & so on. No relegation. 

    And no… I wouldn’t want this! But American owners probably would.  
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,330
    Woodwork said:
    If the American owners taking over English football had their way, they’d probably prefer a play-off system to decide the English champions. Two divisions of 16 clubs - A Premier League North & PL South. With Rangers and Celtic invited. No relegation. The 4 or 5 with the most points in either division qualify for Champions League. To decide the overall champions, the top 8 from each division play each other over two legs in a knockout competition - last 16, QF, SF, Final. 1st in PL North play 8th in PL South & so on. No relegation. 

    And no… I wouldn’t want this! But American owners probably would.  
    Thank goodness they all have you to articulate their aspirations for them
  • Woodwork
    Woodwork Posts: 423
    edited June 4
    Chizz said:
    Woodwork said:
    If the American owners taking over English football had their way, they’d probably prefer a play-off system to decide the English champions. Two divisions of 16 clubs - A Premier League North & PL South. With Rangers and Celtic invited. No relegation. The 4 or 5 with the most points in either division qualify for Champions League. To decide the overall champions, the top 8 from each division play each other over two legs in a knockout competition - last 16, QF, SF, Final. 1st in PL North play 8th in PL South & so on. No relegation. 

    And no… I wouldn’t want this! But American owners probably would.  
    Thank goodness they all have you to articulate their aspirations for them
    Thanks, mate. But to be fair, I listened to a podcast that discussed how many of them do think relegation is a bad idea & how they’d prefer a more razzmatazz system to decide a champion.  
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    If the majority of English clubs are owned by Americans...the simple fact is that they will have the voting block to Americanise English football in whatever way they desire.

    (note how i used an s instead of a z in Americanise - take every opportunity to fight for what is right).
  • Weegie Addick
    Weegie Addick Posts: 16,517
    Just look at some of the options being touted around for the Women’s Super League. 
  • msomerton
    msomerton Posts: 2,969
    KiwiValley said:
    If the majority of English clubs are owned by Americans...the simple fact is that they will have the voting block to Americanise English football in whatever way they desire.

    (note how i used an s instead of a z in Americanise - take every opportunity to fight for what is right).
    they need only two more clubs in the Premiership to get the 60% vote that would give them control of it.
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,272
    msomerton said:
    KiwiValley said:
    If the majority of English clubs are owned by Americans...the simple fact is that they will have the voting block to Americanise English football in whatever way they desire.

    (note how i used an s instead of a z in Americanise - take every opportunity to fight for what is right).
    they need only two more clubs in the Premiership to get the 60% vote that would give them control of it.
    Yep, it is a genuine concern imo.  I can see a world where promotion to the PL is closed off by them.
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  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    I think the bigger risk is games being played in the states, on a frequent basis. Or even more likely games being played at odd times to better suit American audiences.

    If it were a majority of Kiwi owners (that would be a fine thing!) games would kick of at 12-3am GMT 

    There is actually a start up football league in the states that is to feature promotion and relegation. They think it is a point of difference from the MLS and will attract more excitement. I don't think Americans are oblivious to the excitement of promotion and relegation. 
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,842
    Athletico Charlton said:
    msomerton said:
    KiwiValley said:
    If the majority of English clubs are owned by Americans...the simple fact is that they will have the voting block to Americanise English football in whatever way they desire.

    (note how i used an s instead of a z in Americanise - take every opportunity to fight for what is right).
    they need only two more clubs in the Premiership to get the 60% vote that would give them control of it.
    Yep, it is a genuine concern imo.  I can see a world where promotion to the PL is closed off by them.
    A bit like the European super league, fan response would kill this dead pretty quickly. 
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,030
    I’m not sure “American owners” are one, homogenous bloc. Some, many maybe, are investing in English football precisely because of its history and traditions, not simply to make money. 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,733
    se9addick said:
    I’m not sure “American owners” are one, homogenous bloc. Some, many maybe, are investing in English football precisely because of its history and traditions, not simply to make money. 
    Just as well.
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 10,978
    KiwiValley said:
    I think the bigger risk is games being played in the states, on a frequent basis. Or even more likely games being played at odd times to better suit American audiences.

    If it were a majority of Kiwi owners (that would be a fine thing!) games would kick of at 12-3am GMT 

    There is actually a start up football league in the states that is to feature promotion and relegation. They think it is a point of difference from the MLS and will attract more excitement. I don't think Americans are oblivious to the excitement of promotion and relegation. 
    Birmingham’s American owner has said today that playing cup games abroad should be explored. I know it’s a bone of contention with the football regulator bill too
  • cafcnick1992
    cafcnick1992 Posts: 7,413
    It shouldn't be explored. It's not our fault that the American soccer league structure is tragic.
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    fenaddick said:
    KiwiValley said:
    I think the bigger risk is games being played in the states, on a frequent basis. Or even more likely games being played at odd times to better suit American audiences.

    If it were a majority of Kiwi owners (that would be a fine thing!) games would kick of at 12-3am GMT 

    There is actually a start up football league in the states that is to feature promotion and relegation. They think it is a point of difference from the MLS and will attract more excitement. I don't think Americans are oblivious to the excitement of promotion and relegation. 
    Birmingham’s American owner has said today that playing cup games abroad should be explored. I know it’s a bone of contention with the football regulator bill too
    And thus they kill what they love. 
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 94,288
    fenaddick said:
    KiwiValley said:
    I think the bigger risk is games being played in the states, on a frequent basis. Or even more likely games being played at odd times to better suit American audiences.

    If it were a majority of Kiwi owners (that would be a fine thing!) games would kick of at 12-3am GMT 

    There is actually a start up football league in the states that is to feature promotion and relegation. They think it is a point of difference from the MLS and will attract more excitement. I don't think Americans are oblivious to the excitement of promotion and relegation. 
    Birmingham’s American owner has said today that playing cup games abroad should be explored. I know it’s a bone of contention with the football regulator bill too
    They should focus on getting into the Conference League then
  • JaShea99
    JaShea99 Posts: 5,456
    clb74 said:
    Todds_right_hook said:
    EveshamAddick said:
    sam3110 said:
    Should be 3 up 3 down all the way through, why is PL to championship 3, then 3 between that and League 1, but 4 between League 1 and League 2? Then just 2 from League 2 to non-league. 
    And get rid of the play offs. Revert back to 3 auto positions.
    Do you still stand by this?
    The 3 best teams after 46 games getting promoted.
    Nothing wrong with that.
    Mad when you think about a whole season can finish with a penalty kick.

    It does seem mad, but that could still happen without play offs. A whole season can still be decided on one single decision.
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,210
    fenaddick said:
    KiwiValley said:
    I think the bigger risk is games being played in the states, on a frequent basis. Or even more likely games being played at odd times to better suit American audiences.

    If it were a majority of Kiwi owners (that would be a fine thing!) games would kick of at 12-3am GMT 

    There is actually a start up football league in the states that is to feature promotion and relegation. They think it is a point of difference from the MLS and will attract more excitement. I don't think Americans are oblivious to the excitement of promotion and relegation. 
    Birmingham’s American owner has said today that playing cup games abroad should be explored. I know it’s a bone of contention with the football regulator bill too
    His interview today was full of ridiculous soundbites to ensure he and Birmingham get a ton of headlines. 

    He apparently wants some cup games played abroad, Birmingham v Wrexham games played abroad, Birmingham moving in to a 62,000 capacity stadium.
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  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,142
    edited June 5
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,835
    The big PL clubs wouldn't want a PL with no relegation, as the league needs the turnover to keep it interesting at the bottom, and the chances of the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool going down are basically zero.

    I suspect UEFA or the UK government would step in anyway.
  • Woodwork
    Woodwork Posts: 423
    killerandflash said:
    The big PL clubs wouldn't want a PL with no relegation, as the league needs the turnover to keep it interesting at the bottom, and the chances of the likes of Arsenal or Liverpool going down are basically zero.

    I suspect UEFA or the UK government would step in anyway.
    Owners at other clubs would though. And that is what that podcast was discussing. The likes of the Bournemouth and Palace owners want to grow, and taking away risk of relegation would encourage them to go for it more. So the reasoning went. They find relegation introduces too much jeopardy to long term planning. 

    You’d like to think our game would be protected though, yes. 
  • Woodwork
    Woodwork Posts: 423
    Algarveaddick said:
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
    A lot of Americans think it is crazy that many English provincial cities have two clubs. Why not a Sheffield City getting 60,000 crowds or a Nottingham United or Bristol United getting 50,000… 
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    Woodwork said:
    Algarveaddick said:
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
    A lot of Americans think it is crazy that many English provincial cities have two clubs. Why not a Sheffield City getting 60,000 crowds or a Nottingham United or Bristol United getting 50,000… 
    Charlton London United then i suppose (the Charlton to honour the heritage of the best former club in London). Imagine the 500,000++ crowds
  • Blackheathen
    Blackheathen Posts: 6,655
    They’d have to play n Hyde Park
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    Blackheathen said:
    They’d have to play n Hyde Park
    Jumpers for goal posts. Rush goalie. Two at the back. Three in the middle. Four at the front. One's gone home for his tea. Beans on toast possibly. don't quote me on that. Marvelous.
  • Woodwork
    Woodwork Posts: 423
    KiwiValley said:
    Woodwork said:
    Algarveaddick said:
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
    A lot of Americans think it is crazy that many English provincial cities have two clubs. Why not a Sheffield City getting 60,000 crowds or a Nottingham United or Bristol United getting 50,000… 
    Charlton London United then i suppose (the Charlton to honour the heritage of the best former club in London). Imagine the 500,000++ crowds
    London isn’t a provincial city, so you could have a few, each representing a part of the city. West London Albion, North London Rangers, East London United and South London Lions. 

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,143
    Woodwork said:
    KiwiValley said:
    Woodwork said:
    Algarveaddick said:
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
    A lot of Americans think it is crazy that many English provincial cities have two clubs. Why not a Sheffield City getting 60,000 crowds or a Nottingham United or Bristol United getting 50,000… 
    Charlton London United then i suppose (the Charlton to honour the heritage of the best former club in London). Imagine the 500,000++ crowds
    London isn’t a provincial city, so you could have a few, each representing a part of the city. West London Albion, North London Rangers, East London United and South London Lions. 

    I think ypu should get yourself a Trump Card and naff off to the USA 😉
  • InspectorSands
    InspectorSands Posts: 5,185
    Woodwork said:
    KiwiValley said:
    Woodwork said:
    Algarveaddick said:
    The one top league with no relegation idea simply wouldn't work. There's no draft system and never will be, a salary cap wouldn't work and teams are too close together.   
    A lot of Americans think it is crazy that many English provincial cities have two clubs. Why not a Sheffield City getting 60,000 crowds or a Nottingham United or Bristol United getting 50,000… 
    Charlton London United then i suppose (the Charlton to honour the heritage of the best former club in London). Imagine the 500,000++ crowds
    London isn’t a provincial city, so you could have a few, each representing a part of the city. West London Albion, North London Rangers, East London United and South London Lions. 

    Clearly related to Ron Noades…

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