Just been down to Asda to pick up some dinner tonight for me and my Son
As I've gone to pay with my Bank Card, their checkouts have gone down, meaning they can only pay with Cash... Seems like it was a nationwide thing, going by one cashier who'd just got off the phone with a Manager - Don't think cash should ever disappear whilst there are always minor issues like that.
Makes you realise the fragility and our dependence on technology.
As a society we seem to be sleepwalking into a scenario where one day banks, corporations and authorities can control our access to our own finances.
Just been down to Asda to pick up some dinner tonight for me and my Son
As I've gone to pay with my Bank Card, their checkouts have gone down, meaning they can only pay with Cash... Seems like it was a nationwide thing, going by one cashier who'd just got off the phone with a Manager - Don't think cash should ever disappear whilst there are always minor issues like that.
That's shocking FA, I thought everyone just nicked it nowadays.
Just been down to Asda to pick up some dinner tonight for me and my Son
As I've gone to pay with my Bank Card, their checkouts have gone down, meaning they can only pay with Cash... Seems like it was a nationwide thing, going by one cashier who'd just got off the phone with a Manager - Don't think cash should ever disappear whilst there are always minor issues like that.
That's shocking FA, I thought everyone just nicked it nowadays.
I had the Security Guard next to me trying to pay for his lunch at the same time
Cash use in the shops rose for a second year in a row after a decade of falls, according to retailers.
Notes and coins were used in a fifth of transactions last year, the British Retail Consortium said, as shoppers found cash helped them to budget better.
Cash use in the shops rose for a second year in a row after a decade of falls, according to retailers.
Notes and coins were used in a fifth of transactions last year, the British Retail Consortium said, as shoppers found cash helped them to budget better.
Cash use in the shops rose for a second year in a row after a decade of falls, according to retailers.
Notes and coins were used in a fifth of transactions last year, the British Retail Consortium said, as shoppers found cash helped them to budget better.
"Tesco claims the change has improved the customer experience". Because not being able to choose is always better, isn't it?
Maybe it's "better" because you don't have to talk to anyone? I do fear we are breeding the next generations to become mute, relying entirely on looking at screens and tapping buttons. With AI telling them what to do.
We had a training session at work the other day and it was about the benefits of human interaction in helping to build teams and better serve our clients. Someone mentioned just picking up a phone to ask a question rather than sending an email, to which one of the junior members of the team piped up to say "You HAVE to understand" - and he placed great emphasis on the HAVE - "that our generation don't make calls, we prefer to use apps and texting to phoning someone".
See the thread on power outages in Portugal and Spain to learn why cashless is a bad idea... (I was in the UK luckily).
Not sure a once in a life time incident, which was resolved in less than 24 hours, would be enough by any risk likelihood matrix framework to justify that decision ?
After all how did those without cash get by if there was no power to ATM machines.
Just been down to Asda to pick up some dinner tonight for me and my Son
As I've gone to pay with my Bank Card, their checkouts have gone down, meaning they can only pay with Cash... Seems like it was a nationwide thing, going by one cashier who'd just got off the phone with a Manager - Don't think cash should ever disappear whilst there are always minor issues like that.
Makes you realise the fragility and our dependence on technology.
As a society we seem to be sleepwalking into a scenario where one day banks, corporations and authorities can control our access to our own finances.
They always did didn't they? Unless you are talking about the days when you got cash in a pay packet and kept savings under the matress and paid rent in cash.
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
See the thread on power outages in Portugal and Spain to learn why cashless is a bad idea... (I was in the UK luckily).
Not sure a once in a life time incident, which was resolved in less than 24 hours, would be enough by any risk likelihood matrix framework to justify that decision ?
After all how did those without cash get by if there was no power to ATM machines.
Blimey - there's an awful lot of assumption there, and unless I am misunderstanding, a contradiction from one sentence to another?
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
Move bank, I work in around financial services, and it stuns me everyday that people don't leave the main high street institutions
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
Move bank, I work in around financial services, and it stuns me everyday that people don't leave the main high street institutions
100% agree with this. The main high street clearing banks are truly dire in their service levels, and accessibility for genuine customer centered advice, guidance and support.
Don't like the idea of no cash. System fcuk ups, power down leaves you helpless. Additionally why should every institution and government know what you are doing with YOUR money. None of their business.
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
Move bank, I work in around financial services, and it stuns me everyday that people don't leave the main high street institutions
Ha! Herein lies the irony
Because of another massive fuck up they had made, I had indeed binned them off and gone to First Direct. It was like putting glasses on for the first time seeing how things should be done. People, humans answer the phone, quickly. The app just works, they are transparent. This happened as I was closing all my accounts with the well known 3 letter high street sack of excrement. And I make you right, for someone who pays attention to where my money is and I know every penny that's in my account and what its there for, I should have sacked them off years ago. One good thing is the amount of stupid goodwill payments they have had to give me over the last couple of months has nigh on paid for my holiday.
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
I find that almost impossible to believe unless there is more to it. No right minded person would suggest that. It sounds to me more like your mate asked to withdraw the £50K in cash and they didn't have it and would have had to order the cash on the next run, so suggested take out £5K if and when they had it. Which bank was it?
See the thread on power outages in Portugal and Spain to learn why cashless is a bad idea... (I was in the UK luckily).
Not sure a once in a life time incident, which was resolved in less than 24 hours, would be enough by any risk likelihood matrix framework to justify that decision ?
After all how did those without cash get by if there was no power to ATM machines.
Blimey - there's an awful lot of assumption there, and unless I am misunderstanding, a contradiction from one sentence to another?
Absolutely not, I analyze risk for a living. I would kindly ask you to point out the contradiction in my sentence (assuming you actually do understand what contradiction means).
i shouldn't engage but I'm working late and this will be a nice distraction, so let me guide you on your critical thinking journey.
Step 1) Has this kind of an outage to this extent happened before in Portugal/Spain (or anywhere in the developed world for that matter) in lets say 70 years at this scale and length of time ? No it hasn't.
Step 2) We look at the ARO (Annualized Rate of Occurrence) so right now, as mentioned above, it hasn't previously happened before so its 1 in 70 years, so that means the chance of this happening each year is 0.14 and thats being very liberal as I selected 70 years it could be much longer.
Step 3) lets look at the single loss expectancy (SLE) which in economic terms is around 2.4 billion (Reuters). The Spanish economy alone is worth 1.9 Trillion.
Now ask yourself is it worth forcing small, medium and large private businesses to adopt an archaic system that will cost them money on the off chance something that has happened once in seventy years and may cost the economy 2.4 billion (roughly 0.2% of the economy) might but probably wont happen ?
Also again I ask you, as you brought up the blackout to justify your belief how do you propose people would get hold of cash if their is a power outage ? even if you go in to a bank you need to validate your card ? Only a small number of people will have cash readily available.
So in summary your task is the following -
Point out the contradiction good chap. If possible follow my thought process. Make a sensible decision.
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
I find that almost impossible to believe unless there is more to it. No right minded person would suggest that. It sounds to me more like your mate asked to withdraw the £50K in cash and they didn't have it and would have had to order the cash on the next run, so suggested take out £5K if and when they had it. Which bank was it?
Bear in mind I'm telling this third-hand so I'm paraphrasing someone else paraphrasing however the guts of the story is they refused to do the transfer in branch, he absolutely didn't want fifty bags withdrawn for obvious reasons. The issue was they had plenty of opportunity to help this bloke manage his money and at the point he's (my mates dad) decided he wanted to move elsewhere they put up an unreasonable amount of resistance. My mate is not the kind to bullshit, there isn't anything in it for him and he just isn't that sort of person. The bank was TSB. Think about the situation he's in there, you are in a bank, with your dad who you are trying to assist, the bank staff refuse to play ball for whatever reason and he felt there was not a lot he could do. And on the day there wasn't other than withdraw large sums of money they could handle then physically walk that along the road to the other bank. No reason to disbelieve him although I totally accept I wasn't there
People that say "by having cash I keep better track of what I spend" was always something I had some sympathy with, as handing over a note feels a lot more emotional than tapping a card.
I use an app called Snoop which which plugs into bank accounts/credit cards to categorise all of my spending, it's very user friendly and easy to use. It means I know exactly what I spend, where, and on what, which for me more than mitigates the idea of cash keeping you accountable.
They even allow you to budget in the app, and also will give you some analysis on where you might be overspending based on comparisons with thousands of people's anonymised data.
I've had a bank fuck up and "misplace" a few thousand pounds of my money. This was only recently an its made me feel like keeping my money in a box buried underground or in a safe in my house. Their attitude to fixing their balls up was atrocious too.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
I find that almost impossible to believe unless there is more to it. No right minded person would suggest that. It sounds to me more like your mate asked to withdraw the £50K in cash and they didn't have it and would have had to order the cash on the next run, so suggested take out £5K if and when they had it. Which bank was it?
Bear in mind I'm telling this third-hand so I'm paraphrasing someone else paraphrasing however the guts of the story is they refused to do the transfer in branch, he absolutely didn't want fifty bags withdrawn for obvious reasons. The issue was they had plenty of opportunity to help this bloke manage his money and at the point he's (my mates dad) decided he wanted to move elsewhere they put up an unreasonable amount of resistance. My mate is not the kind to bullshit, there isn't anything in it for him and he just isn't that sort of person. The bank was TSB. Think about the situation he's in there, you are in a bank, with your dad who you are trying to assist, the bank staff refuse to play ball for whatever reason and he felt there was not a lot he could do. And on the day there wasn't other than withdraw large sums of money they could handle then physically walk that along the road to the other bank. No reason to disbelieve him although I totally accept I wasn't there
Perhaps it was because he could have made the faster payment himself as their daily limit is £50K.
For them to do it the procedure would have involved needing some additional ID probably passport as a fraud prevention measure, which he may not have had on him, which may have been why they said they couldn’t do it there and then or could have been past the cut off time which I think is around 4pm for the branch to process rather than the customer themself being able to process 24/7.
I worked for Lloyds TSB for 10 years and have banked with them for 25 years and never encountered any such issue and have made plenty of faster payments myself and also got the branch to make payments having gone in with suitable ID etc.
See the thread on power outages in Portugal and Spain to learn why cashless is a bad idea... (I was in the UK luckily).
Not sure a once in a life time incident, which was resolved in less than 24 hours, would be enough by any risk likelihood matrix framework to justify that decision ?
After all how did those without cash get by if there was no power to ATM machines.
Blimey - there's an awful lot of assumption there, and unless I am misunderstanding, a contradiction from one sentence to another?
Absolutely not, I analyze risk for a living. I would kindly ask you to point out the contradiction in my sentence (assuming you actually do understand what contradiction means).
i shouldn't engage but I'm working late and this will be a nice distraction, so let me guide you on your critical thinking journey.
Step 1) Has this kind of an outage to this extent happened before in Portugal/Spain (or anywhere in the developed world for that matter) in lets say 70 years at this scale and length of time ? No it hasn't.
Step 2) We look at the ARO (Annualized Rate of Occurrence) so right now, as mentioned above, it hasn't previously happened before so its 1 in 70 years, so that means the chance of this happening each year is 0.14 and thats being very liberal as I selected 70 years it could be much longer.
Step 3) lets look at the single loss expectancy (SLE) which in economic terms is around 2.4 billion (Reuters). The Spanish economy alone is worth 1.9 Trillion.
Now ask yourself is it worth forcing small, medium and large private businesses to adopt an archaic system that will cost them money on the off chance something that has happened once in seventy years and may cost the economy 2.4 billion (roughly 0.2% of the economy) might but probably wont happen ?
Also again I ask you, as you brought up the blackout to justify your belief how do you propose people would get hold of cash if their is a power outage ? even if you go in to a bank you need to validate your card ? Only a small number of people will have cash readily available.
So in summary your task is the following -
Point out the contradiction good chap. If possible follow my thought process. Make a sensible decision.
Well, I was talking about people being sensible enough to have a reasonable amount of cash at home to deal with an emergency. You seem to have missed that point as you suggest they would need an ATM, which of course they would not, as they are not "cashless". In your cashless world, "Only a small number of people will have cash readily available" In mine, everyone would. That is the whole point and that's why I read it as a contradiction - people with cash don't need an ATM, short term. I did say I may have misunderstood, to try to keep it friendly.
Regarding your stats, as the push towards a cashless society really began to build momentum post-covid, wouldn't five years be a more realistic time scale than seventy? Or even twenty as I would say that is roughly when we began to rely on computers (and therefore electricity) to do everything. I would suggest that in the modern world, with the increase in cyber attacks and unexpected weather patterns that outages would become more likely than a generation ago? Also, an outage does not have to be on the scale of this one to be a problem to individuals, a forest fire or a power worker's strike could have the same effect over a smaller area.
You also mention "forcing small, medium and large private businesses to adopt an archaic system" - a system that everyone was reasonably happy with until five years ago "archaic"? Really? A system that I know many small, medium and large private business's are still using, and are quite happy with.
Cash and card are not mutually exclusive and at no point was I suggesting they were.
Comments
As a society we seem to be sleepwalking into a scenario where one day banks, corporations and authorities can control our access to our own finances.
One in five shop purchases now made in cash
Cash use in the shops rose for a second year in a row after a decade of falls, according to retailers.
Notes and coins were used in a fifth of transactions last year, the British Retail Consortium said, as shoppers found cash helped them to budget better.
Article.
Central London perhaps - Greater London would be similar to the national figures I would guess.
We had a training session at work the other day and it was about the benefits of human interaction in helping to build teams and better serve our clients. Someone mentioned just picking up a phone to ask a question rather than sending an email, to which one of the junior members of the team piped up to say "You HAVE to understand" - and he placed great emphasis on the HAVE - "that our generation don't make calls, we prefer to use apps and texting to phoning someone".
Well it's about fcking time you learnt then!
Lloyds, Halifax and TSB banking apps down, thousands report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9nnz2eqzdoShops could be forced to accept cash in future, MPs warn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwvgqz3vxzoAfter all how did those without cash get by if there was no power to ATM machines.
Their approach to retail banking is also ensuring that will soon vanish. They are only concerned with selling over-priced financial products as opposed to helping people manage their money. My mate helps his dad with this stuff and his dad had something like £50k in a current account and all the arseholes did when he took his dad down there to move most of it into a savings account was be obstructive and attempt to sell mortgages with shite rates, credit cards this guy plainly didn’t need before telling my pal they would only issue the money in installments over 2 weeks, asking him to take it out in £5k lumps, walk it along to the other bank his dad had opened a savings account in and deposit the cash in there. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have transferred it via BACS immediately.
100% agree with this. The main high street clearing banks are truly dire in their service levels, and accessibility for genuine customer centered advice, guidance and support.
For petrol, shopping and most things I will pay cash. If a shop tells me that don’t accept cash I leave it on the counter and tell them to poke it.
on my monthly bank statement there is now only about 8 card transactions per month (Charlton TV) included.
It helps to cut out potential fraud, and I keep control of my finances a lot better.
Because of another massive fuck up they had made, I had indeed binned them off and gone to First Direct. It was like putting glasses on for the first time seeing how things should be done. People, humans answer the phone, quickly. The app just works, they are transparent. This happened as I was closing all my accounts with the well known 3 letter high street sack of excrement. And I make you right, for someone who pays attention to where my money is and I know every penny that's in my account and what its there for, I should have sacked them off years ago. One good thing is the amount of stupid goodwill payments they have had to give me over the last couple of months has nigh on paid for my holiday.
No right minded person would suggest that.
It sounds to me more like your mate asked to withdraw the £50K in cash and they didn't have it and would have had to order the cash on the next run, so suggested take out £5K if and when they had it.
Which bank was it?
i shouldn't engage but I'm working late and this will be a nice distraction, so let me guide you on your critical thinking journey.
Step 1) Has this kind of an outage to this extent happened before in Portugal/Spain (or anywhere in the developed world for that matter) in lets say 70 years at this scale and length of time ? No it hasn't.
Step 2) We look at the ARO (Annualized Rate of Occurrence) so right now, as mentioned above, it hasn't previously happened before so its 1 in 70 years, so that means the chance of this happening each year is 0.14 and thats being very liberal as I selected 70 years it could be much longer.
Step 3) lets look at the single loss expectancy (SLE) which in economic terms is around 2.4 billion (Reuters). The Spanish economy alone is worth 1.9 Trillion.
Now ask yourself is it worth forcing small, medium and large private businesses to adopt an archaic system that will cost them money on the off chance something that has happened once in seventy years and may cost the economy 2.4 billion (roughly 0.2% of the economy) might but probably wont happen ?
Also again I ask you, as you brought up the blackout to justify your belief how do you propose people would get hold of cash if their is a power outage ? even if you go in to a bank you need to validate your card ? Only a small number of people will have cash readily available.
So in summary your task is the following -
Point out the contradiction good chap.
If possible follow my thought process.
Make a sensible decision.
Because one is reasonable and I can see happening, the other i highly doubt happens.
I use an app called Snoop which which plugs into bank accounts/credit cards to categorise all of my spending, it's very user friendly and easy to use. It means I know exactly what I spend, where, and on what, which for me more than mitigates the idea of cash keeping you accountable.
They even allow you to budget in the app, and also will give you some analysis on where you might be overspending based on comparisons with thousands of people's anonymised data.
For them to do it the procedure would have involved needing some additional ID probably passport as a fraud prevention measure, which he may not have had on him, which may have been why they said they couldn’t do it there and then or could have been past the cut off time which I think is around 4pm for the branch to process rather than the customer themself being able to process 24/7.
I worked for Lloyds TSB for 10 years and have banked with them for 25 years and never encountered any such issue and have made plenty of faster payments myself and also got the branch to make payments having gone in with suitable ID etc.
All the best.
Regarding your stats, as the push towards a cashless society really began to build momentum post-covid, wouldn't five years be a more realistic time scale than seventy? Or even twenty as I would say that is roughly when we began to rely on computers (and therefore electricity) to do everything. I would suggest that in the modern world, with the increase in cyber attacks and unexpected weather patterns that outages would become more likely than a generation ago? Also, an outage does not have to be on the scale of this one to be a problem to individuals, a forest fire or a power worker's strike could have the same effect over a smaller area.
You also mention "forcing small, medium and large private businesses to adopt an archaic system" - a system that everyone was reasonably happy with until five years ago "archaic"? Really? A system that I know many small, medium and large private business's are still using, and are quite happy with.
Cash and card are not mutually exclusive and at no point was I suggesting they were.