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Note: for the avoidance of doubt, if a book is three times what someone has been paying in the past, it's a 200% increase.0
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I’ve not got time now to sort this Chippy.
Perhaps you can google your circumstances?
I’m happy to help tomorrow if I know exactly what the issue is.1 -
cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.5 -
Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.8 -
Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)1 -
Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
Violence, continual lying, gross incompetence on all fronts seem to be OK.
Great response as usual husk.1 -
What is the point in replying to chippy - he’s either thicker than a Boxing Day turd or a wum. Probably both.4
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Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?3 - Sponsored links:
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Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?3 -
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stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?3 -
stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?4 -
cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?1 -
cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.11 -
cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?6 -
stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
Led By Donkeys can campaign against whoever they choose. Are "Labour staffers and lefties" prohibited from campaigning? I would hope not
Prohibiting certain groups from exercising free speech would only happen in autocratic regimes like North Korea, China, Russia and the United States.6 -
cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.4 -
Rizzo said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
4 - Sponsored links:
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Leroy Ambrose said:cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.1 -
arny23394 said:What is the point in replying to chippy - he’s either thicker than a Boxing Day turd or a wum. Probably both.0
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cantersaddick said:Leroy Ambrose said:cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.
Politicians routinely act within a fairly narrow window that they perceive to be acceptable to the majority - their primary objective is to get re-elected and radical, unpopular policies tend not to get politicians re-elected!1 -
Japan sontcantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.0 -
bobmunro said:cantersaddick said:Leroy Ambrose said:cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.
Politicians routinely act within a fairly narrow window that they perceive to be acceptable to the majority - their primary objective is to get re-elected and radical, unpopular policies tend not to get politicians re-elected!0 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:Japan sontcantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.cantersaddick said:cafcnick1992 said:cantersaddick said:stop_shouting said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:Chizz said:Huskaris said:cafcnick1992 said:I'm sat here waiting for Led By Donkeys to put up a poster about the price cap going up by £300 instead of down, as promised by Labour.
Led by Donkeys (in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect) are just a bunch of bellends.
It's almost as if a government of any colour is very weak to resist market forces. It's just one party get off without the scrutiny of the other.
I only ask because they've garnered a reputation of speaking truth to power which would be diminished if they were to criticise a goal set for 2029, several years before the deadline.
"A reputation of speaking truth for power" is stretching it a bit too in my opinion, which I'm allowed to have :-)
They have been going for 72 months: 67 months and four PMs from the Conservative party, eight months with Starmer in charge. It's not surprising they've campaigned more against the right than the left, given those figures. They are allowed to pick and choose sides though.
Incidentally, what did you mean by "in itself a phrase which is factually and demonstrably incorrect"?
I know its not on topic but allow me this one post. This just perfectly demonstrates how warped the political conversation in the UK has become. By any independent measure this labour government on both economic and social policy are still pushing hard capitalist, go for growth, support big business, low welfare, low regulation, cuts in spending, low govt intervention, low service provision, high levels of private sector involvement, anti immigration messages and agenda. Yes they want reform and to get public services working again and yes they have raised a small amount through some taxes to do this but if you take the slightest step back you can see that whilst being to the left of what we've had since Johnson took a lurch to the hard right we are still at best being run by a centrist govt. I'd argue that socially this govt is further right that David Cameron.
Taking that step back for some perspective. You have the US system, the European system and then way off you have proper social democracies like Scandinavia and Japan. We have historically been in the window between the US and European systems, sometimes we are closer to one than the other. We have been since 92 moving ever closer to the US system, this government have moved us a bit nearer to the European system but when you see major economies in Europe having serious conversations about introducing wealth taxes you realise just how far off we are. They have big business controls that we can only dream of, anti short-termism measure in dividend payments, employees on the board to ensure long term prospects for companies etc. controls on shareholders power, much more government intervention in key industries and sectors (energy, water, transport etc.). And even those countries and economies can barely be called left wing.
We are such a long way from even the European model (which is simply a reigned back capitalism) and millions of miles from anything that can be described as socialism or even social democracy such as Scandinavia or Japan. Get your head out of the UK drain and see some big picture here.1 -
I'll put money on Lions Led by Donkeys doing a stunt on Labour during this term.2
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Dansk_Red said:Milliband when he was energy minister in a previous government stated that everybody would have smart meters fitted by 2020, that went well, original smart meters now need replacing as they relied on radio signals, the cost will be no doubt passed onto consumers.0
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He was secretary of state for energy and climate change under Gordon Brown 2008 to 2010 I believe.0