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What game started the snowball to the current situation?

twiggyaddick
twiggyaddick Posts: 1,589
in General Charlton
So, we are in a right mess....was there a particular game that started us on a slippery slope to this point? What game, if the result was different, could have changed the course of the clubs history for the better, like a snowball effect?

My entrant is going all the way back to operation riverside, or even the original tie at the Valley..

Win either of those, make the semi final and gives curbs belief the club can go a bit further under him, or better still win the semi final, as finalists against Liverpool qualifying for the uefa cup, may have convinced curbs to stay an extra year, we avoid Dowie as he goes up north somewhere else after leaving palace, we get the extra premier league money and some uefa cup level players and appoint someone far better.
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Comments

  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,451
    SporadicAddick said:
    v Exeter, 27th August 1921. A 1-0 win papered over the cracks.
    Classic :D
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,451
    edited December 2024
    Bedsaddick said:
    The moment Roland decided to tell Chris Powell who to play in the F.A Cup Quarter final at Sheffield United and CP walked away . Win that and get further in the F.A cup for 60 odd years and a trip to Wembley.
    It’s been disaster after disaster  ( Despite a play off win ) ever since then.  
    All day long, certainly in answer to the OP.  
    Sir Chris was toast once Dushitelet took over(remember the look on Powell's face at the press conference with Uncle and squirrel face?).
    He only stayed because we were in the cup.
    Peeters was ALWAYS going to be taking over.
  • RodneyCharltonTrotta
    RodneyCharltonTrotta Posts: 14,864
    Premier League relegation season.  Fulham got awarded a throw which should have been ours and scored (a night game I think) and won.  Had that not happened i reckon we'd have stayed up by the skin of our teeth that year.
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,494
    RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
    Premier League relegation season.  Fulham got awarded a throw which should have been ours and scored (a night game I think) and won.  Had that not happened i reckon we'd have stayed up by the skin of our teeth that year.
    Drew - 2-2. But yeah, that was the start of the rot for me too. 
  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,360
    Selling Scott Parker in January 2004. That team was magnificent and he was the beating heart of it. 

    I don't dispute he was never going to stay beyond that season however had we kept the momentum we had and him until the summer, well. That January was the peak of the mountain for us. We did ok but the following season relegating Palace was the high point, then we had a season where Darren Bent made a colossal difference especially in tight games, a good FA cup run that I still maintain had we played Ambrose behind Bent instead of Bent and Bartlett as a 2 in the quarter final we would have gone on to win the whole thing that year. West Ham wouldn't have beaten us and we had Liverpool number. The season after was an unmitigated mess. Smashing West Ham gave me hope but the abject failure to capitalise on that win, Benty being injured and some horrible luck we were done and thus beginning our spiral


  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 64,402
    Selling Parker… appointing Dowie… selling Andy Reid and replacing him with Andy Gray… letting Pardew build a squad that had 9 (poor) centre midfielders and 2 centre backs… being sold to the spivs and onto Roland…
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,349
    edited December 2024
    Garrymanilow said:
    No one game can really be identified. I think Curbs was on his way anyway, Murray had become too resentful of the attention Curbs was getting and the noise around Curbs taking us as far as he could was unhelpful even if it was nonsense. Whisper it but you wonder if Fortune hadn't put that ball in against Palace to send them down we might have ended up with a better manager when Curbs did decide he'd had enough and none of this nonsense might have needed to happen. Dark thought that.

    There's a few games that stand out as particularly frustrating though. The 2-2 against Fulham springs to mind, Pardew's first game. He'd just joined, we had the transfer window ahead of him and a televised win would have been huge. Instead the ref gave a clear throw for us as a handball against Traore, Talal headed the free kick clearance against the back of Hermann's head (or vice versa) and they equalised at the death. Instead of momentum we got the feeling that nothing would change.

    The Swindon second leg. We were killing them in extra time and should have won. Sure we would have lost to Millwall in the final but if we'd been able to go straight back up L1 would have felt more like a bad dream.

    The Cup quarter against Sheff Utd in 13/14. If we'd got to the semi and played Hull at Wembley Roland couldn't have sacked Powell for at least another month and while it was probably still inevitable you'd hope he'd do enough to stay, or at least we'd have got another month of him. That was the end of any joy.

    Birmingham away in 19/20 still lives in my head. Last minute soft equaliser. If we'd held on for another 10 seconds we'd have stayed up. Not our games but add to that Barnsley scoring against Forest in the 94th minute to not go down and mean we went into the final day with three teams to still worry about and then them doing it again in the final game against Brentford. What a horrible season. Staying in the Championship ahead of the Sandgaard takeover might have meant we had some better suitors than him.

    Of all those games I'm trying not to think about what could have been if we'd not got Dowie but the Birmingham game is one that really stays with me. We were already a mess by then but it just felt so unjust the way everything unfolded after that bloody equaliser and it's been all misery all the time ever since
    Great post. All of those games sprung to my mind, I would add the away game at Brentford in 2020, where we dug in and really looked good for at least a point, despite their possesion, only for them to score twice in the last 15 minutes. The fact that they couldn't do the same in the Barnsley game you mention was just the effing iceing on the cake.    

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  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,823
    edited December 2024
    I don't think we can point to one game but more specific mistakes or failures to take opportunities. Firstly we have to go back to our relegation from the Premier League. After Curbs, who had a lot of power in the club, Murray decided on a new structure which reflected his ego. He used the power to make poor decision after poor decision which sent us down. Then when we got relegated, there was an opportunity to go up again which was spurned when we sold Andy Reid. We also bought Gray who was keeping out a better striker in Iwelumo because we had paid a lot for him. Total Shambles.

    The third point where our demise could be charted was Pardew losing the plot. This can happen to decent managers who are in a situation where they just can't see how to fix it. But if the manager doesn't know what to do, you are only going one way. Pardew showed later that if he is backed he could do a half decent job but he was in a death spiral with us.

    The next point on the chart was in Powell's second season in the Championship. He needed backing to continue a rise and had the rug pulled from underneath him. When you look at a chart of things that have gone wrong, you have to look at Powell's impact as a point where things started going right. But ownership again scuppered that.

    Linked to Powell's exit, we had an owner who had no idea and indeed had a stupid plan that was never going to work. But he also had an ego so large that he would never accept it. The club was being weakened throughout Duchatelet's ownership. Despite this, we had another positive point when Bowyer took over. This was followed by a negative when he wasn't backed after gaining promotion and indeed saw the club sold to crooks.

    Then we had yet another clueless owner in Sandgaard who totally messed up any positives we had in terms of players and this was the start of goals being taken out of the side. A problem we are still suffering from. Since then, there have been no green shoots despite new owners.  And like everything, if all the points you can chart, bar a couple, are negatives, you slip into a demise which becomes increasingly harder to get out of.

    It is easy to point the finger at managers, but it is owner after owner that is to blame for what we have become. And in all honesty, our current SMT looks like it is full of bullshitting ineptness. When I heard Rodwell go on about 8+8+8 my bullshit meter was going off the scale. It is depressing.
  • ken_shabby
    ken_shabby Posts: 6,326
    The original post actually covers it nicely. And Muttley has covered the in between gaffes that have seen us plummet. Someone should wrap a bow around them and send it to the owners, as a blueprint of what to avoid.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,823
    ken_shabby said:
    The original post actually covers it nicely. And Muttley has covered the in between gaffes that have seen us plummet. Someone should wrap a bow around them and send it to the owners, as a blueprint of what to avoid.
    I have blamed owners but there is a point where it comes down to managers. When you have one that comes in and starts improving things, you have to go with it. I would say Powell and Bowyer fall into this category. But we have had a lot of managers in this time who haven't been up to the task. All the more reason when you find ones that work that you support them and let them take you on the journey with them.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 27,092
    West Ham 4-3 Spurs 

    I had taken voluntary refunds from bank and had gone island hopping in Thailand for a month. My first full day in Samui was us beating West Ham 4-0 and watched game in a bar and spent half the match on phone to my mates who were at the game. 

    Was on Phuket by time this game was played. Feel that if West Ham had lost then they were toast. Two late goals in comeback win gave them renewed momentum (along with the illegal signings of Tevez and Mascherano) 
  • Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch Posts: 1,895
    On-field sliding doors moments with consequences - the standouts for me are the Fulham throw in, missed sitter at Sheff Utd, Birmingham equaliser.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,154
    I genuinely do feel at times like our club is cursed
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,710
    No idea who did it, but we used to play a song called ‘stop the rot’ we’ve been rubbish since we stopped playing it.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,272
    There is one game and only one game.
    Charlton 4 Chelsea 2 Boxing Day 2003.

    We were in a top 4 Champions League place & Chelsea were not, but close.

    Chelsea came in for Scott Parker, who at the time I felt was playing like having 2 players.

    Parker wanted to go and had a clause in his contract that he could go if a good offer came in from a top 4 club.

    Although Chelsea were one of the big 4, they weren’t in the top 4 so Charlton refused.

    Parker turned up at training, but refused to kick a ball.

    He was dropped, eventually sold and we never achieved those dizzy heights again (certainly not mid season).
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 27,092
    Parker would have been a mainstay in England team if he waited till end of season and joined Arsenal 
  • bolloxbolder
    bolloxbolder Posts: 8,043
    edited December 2024
    We definitely lost momentum and peaked just before the Parker sale.

    Our downfall, similar I might add to United was failing to prepare for Curbs departure.

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  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,154
    All my key moments have been covered but I’ll chuck an extra one into the mix. 

    22 Nov 2014.

    We were going well in Championship with Bob Peeters as manager and just had a good away win at Reading. Millwall at home, a win and we were in a play off position. 

    It was 0-0 in a pretty even game, deep in extra time George Tucadean gets put through 1-1 and cocks it up. His wife had had a baby that morning, it was in front of the Covered End and we hadn’t beaten Millwall for 6 games back to 1996. Everything was aligned for George to become a cult hero. And he f*cks it up, badly, a wide and under hit chip around the keeper Alan Dunne sees off for a corner.

    Win that game and the whole Roland era may have been completely different. After that game we went 12 games out to the end Feb 2015 till we next won a game. Peeters might not have lost his job. We would have killed the Millwall curse which has now run another 5 games and 10 years, there would have been a massive and much needed feel good feeling around The Valley and the momentum may have kept us in the play off places. The whole protest years and seperation of club and assets may never have happened

    Thanks George. 


  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,645
    19/08/2006 Away to West Ham. Lost 3-1

    The first game that we didn't have Curbs in the dugout.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 29,084
    MrOneLung said:
    Parker would have been a mainstay in England team if he waited till end of season and joined Arsenal 
    He could have gone to Man Utd to replace Keane who left at the end of that season.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 29,084
    AFKABartram said:
    All my key moments have been covered but I’ll chuck an extra one into the mix. 

    22 Nov 2014.

    We were going well in Championship with Bob Peeters as manager and just had a good away win at Reading. Millwall at home, a win and we were in a play off position. 

    It was 0-0 in a pretty even game, deep in extra time George Tucadean gets put through 1-1 and cocks it up. His wife had had a baby that morning, it was in front of the Covered End and we hadn’t beaten Millwall for 6 games back to 1996. Everything was aligned for George to become a cult hero. And he f*cks it up, badly, a wide and under hit chip around the keeper Alan Dunne sees off for a corner.

    Win that game and the whole Roland era may have been completely different. After that game we went 12 games out to the end Feb 2015 till we next won a game. Peeters might not have lost his job. We would have killed the Millwall curse which has now run another 5 games and 10 years, there would have been a massive and much needed feel good feeling around The Valley and the momentum may have kept us in the play off places. The whole protest years and seperation of club and assets may never have happened

    Thanks George. 


    Still think he got taken out, as he went for the rebound. 
    Was this the game where their keeper dropped the ball and we scored. The ref wasn’t watching and gave them a free kick?
  • BR7_addick
    BR7_addick Posts: 10,229
    Had a similar conversation in the boozer yesterday.  I’m gonna say the days of the aftermath of the 2019 Wembley win.  

    Roland within what 48 hours or so:
    “The revenue from the championship doesn’t increase in line with costs” or words of that nature.  Also he was playing hardball over Bowyer’s contract.  

    That was when the iron was finally hot, he could’ve been a little less risk averse and pumped money in to go for back to back promotions.  We had quality players, we had momentum, we had a manager who loved the place and knew what he was doing, we finally had a happy fan base, season ticket numbers were up.  

    But no, he bottled it.  And that’s why we are where we are now.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,154
    guinnessaddick said:
    AFKABartram said:
    All my key moments have been covered but I’ll chuck an extra one into the mix. 

    22 Nov 2014.

    We were going well in Championship with Bob Peeters as manager and just had a good away win at Reading. Millwall at home, a win and we were in a play off position. 

    It was 0-0 in a pretty even game, deep in extra time George Tucadean gets put through 1-1 and cocks it up. His wife had had a baby that morning, it was in front of the Covered End and we hadn’t beaten Millwall for 6 games back to 1996. Everything was aligned for George to become a cult hero. And he f*cks it up, badly, a wide and under hit chip around the keeper Alan Dunne sees off for a corner.

    Win that game and the whole Roland era may have been completely different. After that game we went 12 games out to the end Feb 2015 till we next won a game. Peeters might not have lost his job. We would have killed the Millwall curse which has now run another 5 games and 10 years, there would have been a massive and much needed feel good feeling around The Valley and the momentum may have kept us in the play off places. The whole protest years and seperation of club and assets may never have happened

    Thanks George. 


    Still think he got taken out, as he went for the rebound. 
    Was this the game where their keeper dropped the ball and we scored. The ref wasn’t watching and gave them a free kick?
    That was different game, 2017
  • Leaburn Forever
    Leaburn Forever Posts: 351
    For me it was selling Scott Parker, if we hadn't sold him, there was a chance we could have qualified for the Champions League that season.  We didn't win many game after he left.  If we had got into the Champions League, we would attracted great players to the club, and wouldn't have had any dodgy loans being owed to directors 
  • Siv_in_Norfolk
    Siv_in_Norfolk Posts: 4,090
    Parker sale
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,271
    The Parker enforced sale was also symptomatic of a wider event that fucked up the whole of English football and has pushed us all towards  a European “super” league, namely the arrival of that **** Abramovic. Had he not pitched up Parker would have stayed until at least the summer; but also the increase in revenue and investment would have been more modest and sustainable. I hope he and all his enablers rot in hell, or even better, Kamchatka.::
  • Redmidland
    Redmidland Posts: 44,700
    SporadicAddick said:
    v Exeter, 27th August 1921. A 1-0 win papered over the cracks.
    Ask @TCE he was there! 😜

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