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Dinosaurs and the bible
Comments
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I always find it strange how desperate people are to get people to sign up to their "brand" of religious theism.
I'm completely agnostic but find atheists some of the most intolerant people going.
Anyone that thinks less of you because of your personally held beliefs (as long as that does not lead to you causing harm to anyone else) is generally a very fragile mind, regardless of their religious/political persuasions.5 -
I’m assuming that was aimed at what I said mate. It’s actually a fact. Google it. So it’s not bollocks. Maybe you think the connotation is bollocks but what I wrote is not.ValleyGary said:What a load of bollocks 🤣0 -
Yes mate I was referring to the connotation. It’s all waffle.Rob said:
I’m assuming that was aimed at what I said mate. It’s actually a fact. Google it. So it’s not bollocks. Maybe you think the connotation is bollocks but what I wrote is not.ValleyGary said:What a load of bollocks 🤣0 -
Fair enough.0
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They were never exterminated as yesterday's picture proves.....
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What if you believe it’s impossible to separate religion and harm?Huskaris said:I always find it strange how desperate people are to get people to sign up to their "brand" of religious theism.
I'm completely agnostic but find atheists some of the most intolerant people going.
Anyone that thinks less of you because of your personally held beliefs (as long as that does not lead to you causing harm to anyone else) is generally a very fragile mind, regardless of their religious/political persuasions.0 -
Maybe there is a schism between belief in something external as it were, a God like figure, an afterlife, other apparent 'mystical' stuff: and belief in things internally.
It can easily be argued that 'God' if that is what you want to call it, is whatever strength of purpose you carry within you that gives you belief to do the 'right thing'.
What organised religion has seemingly done is to hand down to people an oven ready list of what the 'right thing' is, which is handy if you can't be arsed to think, reason, contemplate, meditate or philosophise in some way.
The notion of belief and faith is interesting in this context. There is a kind of easy way out of hard contemplation if you simply accept the rules and customs of a religion.
However even the reported comment by the great Socrates 'The unexamined life is a life not worth living' contains within it a degree of faith and belief beyond science, reasoning, and logic.
Like 'who says an unexamined life is not worth living?' juts out jaw 'some kind of woke wanker? I don't believe it myself' can be the refrain of another person. They might even add 'all the answers, all the things you need to know are in the Koran/Bible/Torah/Mao's Little Red Book or whatever'.
Do people ever contemplate morality and belief?
I note with interest that JS above talks of creating a humanitarian society which is a pretty good aspiration yet is something that even now clashes with varied beliefs and moralities.
Suella Braverman believes that street sleeping and homelessness is a lifestyle choice, I don't believe that. Who is right and who is wrong? Does it come down to a majority vote?
One of the personal beliefs I carry with me is I don't want to eat slaughtered creatures, others think otherwise. Is there a right and wrong?
Those who dismiss out of hand people who are 'religiously inclined' are perhaps missing the internal debate we all have, and concentrating too much on whichever or whatever rule book a specific religion waves around.3 -
Love,
Love changes everything,
Hands and faces,
Cottage Pie1 -
I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.9
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Like ‘British values’ too.1
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Just live by a decent moral code.
Don't kill anyone
Don't Rape anyone
Don't steal from anyone
Treat everyone as you would like to be treated yourself.
It ain't hard to do the right thing and you don't need any religious nutter to look up to10 -
Whether you believe or not, the teachings and values attributed to Jesus is what represents Christian Values. Not that only christians have them I suspect. That's how I see it so don't find it insulting for that reason. What I find strange is the most conservative christians don't really share those values!ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.2 -
Values like killing women for losing their virginity out of wedlock, or killing a child for cursing their parents? Perhaps it’s the pro slavery teaching that make for Christian values?MuttleyCAFC said:
Whether you believe or not, the teachings and values attributed to Jesus is what represents Christian Values. Not that only christians have them I suspect. That's how I see it so don't find it insulting for that reason. What I find strange is the most conservative christians don't really share those values!ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.Wait, murdering rape victims has to be the real winner.But it’s all ok if it does no harm to others 🤦1 -
I quite agree but I think you are refering to the bible rather than Jesus.1
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I think it is very hard for people to decide on what the right thing is, let alone live by it.
If it was easy would there be anybody agonising over assisted dying or abortion?0 -
The words of his father, apparently.MuttleyCAFC said:I quite agree but I think you are refering to the bible rather than Jesus.0 -
You have fundamentalists who believe everything they read in the Bible or equivalent in other religions. Then you have moderates who don't but still believe in God.2
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Deciding to ignore the evil parts doesn’t make it any less evil though, people are free to believe what they wish, that’s fine, but the rest of us should also be free to judge them as utter lunatics for it.MuttleyCAFC said:You have fundamentalists who believe everything they read in the Bible or equivalent in other religions. Then you have moderates who don't but still believe in God.0 -
And if they’re Palace, you have a god given right to kick their heads in.blackpool72 said:Just live by a decent moral code.
Don't kill anyone
Don't Rape anyone
Don't steal from anyone
Treat everyone as you would like to be treated yourself.
It ain't hard to do the right thing and you don't need any religious nutter to look up to2 -
Humans are a clever arrangement of atoms that over billions of years has developed consciousness and with that, a will to live and procreate, but ultimately it is still just matter.
Why should we care what happens to that matter? Because evolution made our brains care in order to preserve our genes?
This may be the best rational answer we have, but it is so detached from daily experience that it is almost meaningless.
Imagine saying: do not kill because it will decrease the chances of humanity's genes from surviving.
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No, the words of man with all their biases and prejudices. There are some words of wisdom amongst this though.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The words of his father, apparently.MuttleyCAFC said:I quite agree but I think you are refering to the bible rather than Jesus.0 -
Would the world be a better or worse place with 6% fewer wars?1
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There's a certain irony in your final sentence.Huskaris said:I always find it strange how desperate people are to get people to sign up to their "brand" of religious theism.
I'm completely agnostic but find atheists some of the most intolerant people going.
Anyone that thinks less of you because of your personally held beliefs (as long as that does not lead to you causing harm to anyone else) is generally a very fragile mind, regardless of their religious/political persuasions.7 -
Goes without sayingDaveMehmet said:
And if they’re Palace, you have a god given right to kick their heads in.blackpool72 said:Just live by a decent moral code.
Don't kill anyone
Don't Rape anyone
Don't steal from anyone
Treat everyone as you would like to be treated yourself.
It ain't hard to do the right thing and you don't need any religious nutter to look up to0 -
Most people are perfectly tolerant of each others' choices as to whether to put their faith in one or other religion. (Although there seems to be smatterings of intolerance of people who choose not to exhibit faith). In many cases, someone's choice of religious direction is worthy of almost no notice whatsoever: if someone wants to follow a new religion, that should be of very little consequence to anyone else.
Where, I think, a lot of people take exception, is where those that choose to follow a specific religion follow it blindly, unquestioningly and with seemingly little critical thought. This thread started off with a link to a local paper columnist, Pastor Stephen Howard, who believes and promotes the idea that the bible "tells the truth" about dinosaurs. It's an utterly ridiculous notion. It's proven to be wrong. Yet someone who appears to be a functioning, sapiential being is given space to lecture some utter bilge.
He says that all dinosaurs existed at the same time as humans. He says that dinosaurs were all vegetarians. He says that dinosaurs didn't die until humans committed the first sins. That many of the fossils found were of dinosaurs who drowned in the flood. And he sources the bible as ultimate, unimpeachable provenance of all of these "facts".
If someone chooses to follow a faith, that's of no consequence to anyone, in almost every sphere. But if someone chooses to believe - and to promote - these fallacious, deceptive terminological inexactitudes, then they should be called out. Liars shouldn't be given space to promulgate their lies.
Given the irrefutable, fact-based evidence of evolution, why are these religious zealots allowed to misinterpret and deflect? Why should there be tolerance of people who aim to force others to accept lies?
I would like to know what Pastor Stephen Howard reconciles his view that all "creation" was made in seven days, when we have evidence, witnessed since the written, historical, human record, of evolution by natural selection that could not have taken place prior to humans being on earth, but has taken place since:
Antibiotic resistance in bacteria
Pesticide resistance in insects
Industrial melanism in Peppered Moths
Evolution of drug resistance in HIV
Evolution of herbicide resistance in weeds
Fish populations adapting to overfishing by maturing earlier
Lizard populations evolving longer legs to escape predators in urban areas
...and so on, and on, and on...6 -
Those values are Old Testament …. Pre Christ and as such not Christian. Part of Jewish law as described in the Torah or first five books of the old TestamentStu_of_Kunming said:
Values like killing women for losing their virginity out of wedlock, or killing a child for cursing their parents? Perhaps it’s the pro slavery teaching that make for Christian values?MuttleyCAFC said:
Whether you believe or not, the teachings and values attributed to Jesus is what represents Christian Values. Not that only christians have them I suspect. That's how I see it so don't find it insulting for that reason. What I find strange is the most conservative christians don't really share those values!ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.Wait, murdering rape victims has to be the real winner.But it’s all ok if it does no harm to others 🤦0 -
So a significant discrepancy between god and his son ?holyjo said:
Those values are Old Testament …. Pre Christ and as such not Christian. Part of Jewish law as described in the Torah or first five books of the old TestamentStu_of_Kunming said:
Values like killing women for losing their virginity out of wedlock, or killing a child for cursing their parents? Perhaps it’s the pro slavery teaching that make for Christian values?MuttleyCAFC said:
Whether you believe or not, the teachings and values attributed to Jesus is what represents Christian Values. Not that only christians have them I suspect. That's how I see it so don't find it insulting for that reason. What I find strange is the most conservative christians don't really share those values!ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.Wait, murdering rape victims has to be the real winner.But it’s all ok if it does no harm to others 🤦0 -
I blame the parents.ShootersHillGuru said:
So a significant discrepancy between god and his son ?holyjo said:
Those values are Old Testament …. Pre Christ and as such not Christian. Part of Jewish law as described in the Torah or first five books of the old TestamentStu_of_Kunming said:
Values like killing women for losing their virginity out of wedlock, or killing a child for cursing their parents? Perhaps it’s the pro slavery teaching that make for Christian values?MuttleyCAFC said:
Whether you believe or not, the teachings and values attributed to Jesus is what represents Christian Values. Not that only christians have them I suspect. That's how I see it so don't find it insulting for that reason. What I find strange is the most conservative christians don't really share those values!ShootersHillGuru said:I don’t believe in a god and I live my life by values that I’d consider humanitarian or at least as much as 99% of people. I hate the term “Christian values”. It’s bloody insulting.Wait, murdering rape victims has to be the real winner.But it’s all ok if it does no harm to others 🤦4 -
Building on the post above by Chizz, I would add that although I don’t really care what people choose to believe or not I do have a problem when religion, any religion impinges on my life. We have bishops in the upper chamber for no other reason than that they are bishops. We teach religious studies in schools, perpetuating in my opinion the nonsense. Certainly for the most part those bishops and RS teachers are decent enough people but I don’t want their religious based opinions impacting on my life or that of the captive audience in schools.2 -
I stand by what I said in Feb based on my experiences. I am aware there are some religious people who are much less hard line and its more of a moral code than something that underpins their entire life and every thought. But they aren't the ones I have had so much exposure to.cantersaddick said:
Good post, and for me I wish that was the case but in my experience growing up in a strict religious family and still having a lot of exposure to people in those circles it's just not the case. They are the most close minded and hateful people I've ever experienced. As for live and let live that's something that needs to go the other way more. They should practice that when it comes to issues like gay marriage, or trans issues. This is what baffles me most about them. No one is saying they can't live life their way but that others can live life differently. They can't accept that and see these issues as a threat to their religion and so try and impose on others and try to say they can't live the way they want.cabbles said:I was christened and took holy communion as a Roman Catholic, but never got confirmed, and at the age of 15/16 going to Church was the last thing I wanted to do. My dad still goes to Church and would never impose his religion on anyone. I think that in this day and age, religion is an easy target for a lot of people. I understand why, because for so long it’s had a high degree of control on society, but perhaps it’s abated a bit in the last few decades
I understand people that get wound up by the stereotypical preaching of religious people of all denominations/beliefs etc, and the unfortunate lengths some go to to prove their faith. But, by and large, the majority of religious people are just decent folk, with faith. As with all these things, I don’t why it can’t be live and let live, even if you think their faith is delusional. For example, there are people out there that probably scoff at religion and ridicule people that believe in God, yet they’re the exact same people that don’t believe in climate change. Who’s the bigger idiot?
A couple of good posts on physics on here and one book I’ve enjoyed recently on the Big Bang and discovering the Universe’s origin is a Brief History of Time
I am firmly of the view that there is no place for religion in a modern compassionate society.0
