George Dobson - Gone to Wrexham p136, farewell message p142

Dobbo is leaving I feel. The last few games he’s carried his daughter out with him home at Peterborough and away at Blackpool. Not sure if it’s just a nice thing or them saying goodbye. You can read too much into things sometimes in football. 

I think perhaps what George sees and how he is treated by Jones will play a part in any decision. If he’s still picked and retains the armband perhaps he’ll think about staying. 

ShootersHillGuru said:

I think perhaps what George sees and how he is treated by Jones will play a part in any decision. If he’s still picked and retains the armband perhaps he’ll think about staying. 

Agreed - for me, Dobbo and Coventry can definitely play in the same team and i think we should be going all out to convince Dobbo and pay him what he deserves.    

DOUCHER said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

I think perhaps what George sees and how he is treated by Jones will play a part in any decision. If he’s still picked and retains the armband perhaps he’ll think about staying. 

Agreed - for me, Dobbo and Coventry can definitely play in the same team and i think we should be going all out to convince Dobbo and pay him what he deserves.    

I agree, you look at all top sides they play with 2 defensive midfielders. But they do have a lot of attacking and good in possession players.. Which we don't have.

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Chunes said:

If true, what kind of message does it send the squad when your most hardworking and consistent player, two time POTY, is rewarded with that

You don’t deserve high paying contracts for being hard working. Otherwise Simon Church would’ve earned millions!

Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement for playing for Charlton Athletic.

An insulting comparison to measure his worth against Simon Church. Church was absolutely dogshit and couldn't strike a ball clean when that's his number one job, and what's he's paid to do. Dobson as a defensive minded midfielder and anchor, has one of the best tackling rates in the EFL, good passing ability and was our player of the year. He's also one of the only players that other fans mention when they roll us over as usual. Sides like Portsmouth, Barnsley and Oxford all noting his ability and marking him down as a stand out peformer.

He's a lot more than just a hard worker. Dreadful news. 

But he wasn't doing that, at all. He was saying that hard work alone shouldn't make you one of the top players at the club, and if that's the metric you want, then Churchy would be raking it in.

He is not saying "Like Simon Church, Dobbo tries hard but is shit."

Just catching up on two pages from this morning and we seem to be falling back into the "how dare you question Dobbo or say he's shit?" territory (not just you Braziliance). Literally no one is saying that. What people are saying is:
1) Is he already basically gone? (obviously we don't know)
2) We have a lot of cover in his position right now
3) Because of #2, how does he fit into this team? 
4) Are his attributes what our very limited midfield is missing, or are they somewhat redundant?
5) Given he's been a stalwart in a mid-table (at best) side, does that mean he should be involved going forward if the aim is to be better than that?

All very sensible questions. There is no one in this team, given its current state, who should be immune from just such questions. And if your answer to the above comes out to "we still need to keep him, even if its just as a squad player" then great! But you can value his contributions and still understand why now might be the time to move on for everyone involved. 

Well quick update, except for killersandflash

ValleyBen said:

After reading how Jones likes his teams to play then I believe more then ever Dobson & Coventry can both be starters. 

As others have mentioned we just need the third midfielder to be more creative.

A Fraser but more motivated & talented. 

Louie Watson?

killerandflash said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Chunes said:

If true, what kind of message does it send the squad when your most hardworking and consistent player, two time POTY, is rewarded with that

You don’t deserve high paying contracts for being hard working. Otherwise Simon Church would’ve earned millions!

Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement for playing for Charlton Athletic.

An insulting comparison to measure his worth against Simon Church. Church was absolutely dogshit and couldn't strike a ball clean when that's his number one job, and what's he's paid to do. Dobson as a defensive minded midfielder and anchor, has one of the best tackling rates in the EFL, good passing ability and was our player of the year. He's also one of the only players that other fans mention when they roll us over as usual. Sides like Portsmouth, Barnsley and Oxford all noting his ability and marking him down as a stand out peformer.

He's a lot more than just a hard worker. Dreadful news. 

Church may have been underwhelming, but worth noting that he played most of his career in the Championship and had 38 caps for Wales, so isn't that bad. Dobson by contrast has basically played all his career in L1. 

Precisely this. I’m still waiting on the Championship interest for Dobson. As much as he’s our bloke who gets stuck and plays for the badge, he’s a decent League One destroyer at best and therefore is worth a contract that reflects that.

Just because the club previously made mistakes in overpaying others like Kirk or Aneke on their first contract doesn’t mean that the fix is to cave and also overpay for anyone you want to keep on a second contract. The fact he’s even getting a second contract offer puts him ahead of 90% of recent Charlton signings.

Hard decisions have to be made sometimes in football and if that means Dobson gets a contract offer that reflects his ability rather than how much the fans like him then I take it as a sign that we’re trying to be a serious football club again.

killerandflash said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Chunes said:

If true, what kind of message does it send the squad when your most hardworking and consistent player, two time POTY, is rewarded with that

You don’t deserve high paying contracts for being hard working. Otherwise Simon Church would’ve earned millions!

Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement for playing for Charlton Athletic.

An insulting comparison to measure his worth against Simon Church. Church was absolutely dogshit and couldn't strike a ball clean when that's his number one job, and what's he's paid to do. Dobson as a defensive minded midfielder and anchor, has one of the best tackling rates in the EFL, good passing ability and was our player of the year. He's also one of the only players that other fans mention when they roll us over as usual. Sides like Portsmouth, Barnsley and Oxford all noting his ability and marking him down as a stand out peformer.

He's a lot more than just a hard worker. Dreadful news. 

Church may have been underwhelming, but worth noting that he played most of his career in the Championship and had 38 caps for Wales, so isn't that bad. Dobson by contrast has basically played all his career in L1. 

I know mate and it's absolutely outstanding he managed it. Underwhelming is extremely kind of you imho 😂 I have him right up there as one of the worst forwards we have had since leaving the Prem. Other than his goal against Wednesday in the cup away, and his assist to Igor Brighton away, I am struggling to think of any moments he did a job for us, even against Welling in pre-season he didn't look up to it.

Two of my mates follow Wales and found it absolutely bizarre he got so many caps, but I suppose that was the level of Wales at the time, they literally had no one to call upon. Their quality has evolved through the years since. 

Callumcafc said:

killerandflash said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Chunes said:

If true, what kind of message does it send the squad when your most hardworking and consistent player, two time POTY, is rewarded with that

You don’t deserve high paying contracts for being hard working. Otherwise Simon Church would’ve earned millions!

Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement for playing for Charlton Athletic.

An insulting comparison to measure his worth against Simon Church. Church was absolutely dogshit and couldn't strike a ball clean when that's his number one job, and what's he's paid to do. Dobson as a defensive minded midfielder and anchor, has one of the best tackling rates in the EFL, good passing ability and was our player of the year. He's also one of the only players that other fans mention when they roll us over as usual. Sides like Portsmouth, Barnsley and Oxford all noting his ability and marking him down as a stand out peformer.

He's a lot more than just a hard worker. Dreadful news. 

Church may have been underwhelming, but worth noting that he played most of his career in the Championship and had 38 caps for Wales, so isn't that bad. Dobson by contrast has basically played all his career in L1. 

Precisely this. I’m still waiting on the Championship interest for Dobson. As much as he’s our bloke who gets stuck and plays for the badge, he’s a decent League One destroyer at best and therefore is worth a contract that reflects that.

Just because the club previously made mistakes in overpaying others like Kirk or Aneke on their first contract doesn’t mean that the fix is to cave and also overpay for anyone you want to keep on a second contract. The fact he’s even getting a second contract offer puts him ahead of 90% of recent Charlton signings.

Hard decisions have to be made sometimes in football and if that means Dobson gets a contract offer that reflects his ability rather than how much the fans like him then I take it as a sign that we’re trying to be a serious football club again.

You're logic is fine but i'd say he's more than a decent league 1 destroyer - i'd say he's the best league 1 destroyer i've seen - sticks to players like the proverbial 's££t to a blanket' - hounds them down and 99% of the time comes out with the ball - he's the best at what he does - if we manage to get another 10 players at the club who are the best at what they do then we will be onto something - i would say May is, in the right set up, the best at what he does and cbt is / was the best at what he does - in an ideal world he would have stayed but i can see why he's gone - lets not lose the next of our only 3 gems - we need to build around them.      

Callumcafc said:

Oggy Red said:

There has not been many successful teams playing with 11 virtuoso creative players.

What you do need is a couple of grafting no nonsense players who put in the tackles and  hard yards to provide a platform for your flair players to do their stuff. 

Even at Charlton, you'll remember Curbs had people like Kish and Keith Jones. Right now, we've got Dobbo.

Our team problem right now is not Dobbo, it's the lack of creative players in other positions.
.

Can’t agree with that. Our problem is letting in too many goals. 

We’ve conceded 112 goals in the last 18 months and Dobson’s only missed two games in that period. Not all his fault obviously but not the kind of record any defensively minded player would want to be associated with.

So that is all Dobbo's fault then?

Dobbo has until 14 February to show NJ that he's worth whatever he's asking for in terms of salary, for a contract renewal/extension.  And NJ has until that date to convince - or otherwise - the owners that Dobbo forms part of a long-term plan to get Charlton back to the Championship.  

For now, I trust NJ to make the decision that's right for Charlton: either to keep a talismanic captain to the end of the season, or ever beyond; or to ditch a player who has been part of a team drifting downwards and use the savings on players he thinks are more appropriate, starting in the Summer.  

I hold nothing against Dobbo for first wanting to do what's best for him and his family and second, for hanging around long enough to be able to conclude meaningful discussions with February's manager, when January's manager wasn't able to give him what he required.  

I think he's a really good player and I would be delighted if he stays.  But what I think is utterly irrelevant, compared to what the new manager wants to achieve this season and beyond.  So if he stays, that great, because it means NJ can use him to start the climb.  And if he goes, that's great too, because it means NJ will have plans for improvement beyond this season. 

Is Charlton's future reliant on a journeyman footballer who hasn't played above L1 level in England?  I hope not.  

Callumcafc said:

Oggy Red said:

There has not been many successful teams playing with 11 virtuoso creative players.

What you do need is a couple of grafting no nonsense players who put in the tackles and  hard yards to provide a platform for your flair players to do their stuff. 

Even at Charlton, you'll remember Curbs had people like Kish and Keith Jones. Right now, we've got Dobbo.

Our team problem right now is not Dobbo, it's the lack of creative players in other positions.
.

Can’t agree with that. Our problem is letting in too many goals. 

We’ve conceded 112 goals in the last 18 months and Dobson’s only missed two games in that period. Not all his fault obviously but not the kind of record any defensively minded player would want to be associated with.

Or you could look at it and say "imagine how many we'd have conceded had we not had our player of the year defensive midfielder Dobbo there for the last two years"