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Wasps (rugby) could move to Swanley

InspectorSands
InspectorSands Posts: 5,208
in Other Football and Sports
This is a strange one: "A Sevenoaks District Council spokesman said Wasps were considering building a multi-use stadium, training facilities and a hotel on the outskirts of Swanley."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67193921
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Comments

  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,479
    Nice ground sharing option.

    What's the parking like in Swanley?
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,869
    Right next to the M25 at junction 3, thought the golf course there was popular, but seems prime for
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,209
    Not that keen on rugby but if it means having the thrill of moving the parking cones off the front of @golfaddick’s driveway then I’m in…
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,493
    who's paying for it ? .. I doubt the Sevenoaks council tax payers are too keen to foot the bill .. as said in the article, Wasps (former) RUFC went bust owing £95 MILLION !! .. Wasps were 'my team' before the disaster, BUT to rise like a Phoenix having incurred that level of debt should be inexcusable despite the vagaries of company law .. still, be good to have a famous RUFC outfit in the Garden of England despite the piss taking escape from paying their debts
  • R0TW
    R0TW Posts: 1,753
    Yes, I bet that will sting.
  • R0TW
    R0TW Posts: 1,753
    Sorry.
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,869
    The plan is for 26k seat stadium, and would need special permission as it’s in Green belt 
  • TonyWebstersShed
    TonyWebstersShed Posts: 51
    Must admit my first thought was what this might mean for us - whether it gives us any leverage with our stadium or conversely leaves us at greater risk. With Wasps' record, they'll probably abandon this and try & take over the Valley.
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,601
    Rothko said:
    The plan is for 26k seat stadium, and would need special permission as it’s in Green belt 
    26k? Scarily close to our 27k we currently have...
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,435
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.

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  • Hex
    Hex Posts: 1,913
    Sevenoaks DC + Green Belt + KCC + politics = no chance !
  • billysboots
    billysboots Posts: 1,604
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Think there are plenty of Rugby Clubs and Schools playing rugby within a 10 mile radius…….
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,435
    edited October 2023
    billysboots said:
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Think there are plenty of Rugby Clubs and Schools playing rugby within a 10 mile radius…….
    They might play rugby, but it doesn't follow that this would create a base for supporting professional club rugby.

    Blackheath for example never made the transition to the professional game.
  • billysboots
    billysboots Posts: 1,604
    killerandflash said:
    billysboots said:
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Think there are plenty of Rugby Clubs and Schools playing rugby within a 10 mile radius…….
    They might play rugby, but it doesn't follow that this would create a base for supporting professional club rugby.

    Blackheath for example never made the transition to the professional game.
    I don’t think Blackheath ever had enough money behind them to properly make the top table. When the game was “ amateur” they could compete but when the real money came in they struggled. 

    It’s a big “if” but if wasps are properly funded then IMO it could be successful. If you are in Kent and want to watch the prem at the moment you are travelling to Richmond , Barnet or Brentford. 
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,479
    Looking on the map there appears to be a train line running under the site of the planned stadium but no station nearby.

    Road links would be very good but public transport?

    And not in a major population centre 

    A new stadium with almost the same capacity but probably better corporate facilities and more parking but built for the wrong sport.

    Can see the attraction for Wasps to share the Valley and for our owners to share at Swanley but it all seems a long way off with lots of hurdles to jump over, not least raising the money.


  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,435
    Wasps have become a completely plastic club, the way they've moved around, abandoning previous supporters in West London and then High Wycombe for the bizarre franchise style move to Coventry.

    26k is way more than they will realistically attract, when you look at the gates the established London clubs get. If Ebbsfleet were to build a new ground, that would be a more realistic size. Better public transport links too.
  • Swindon_Addick
    Swindon_Addick Posts: 1,776
    Other rugby clubs that have gone bust have simply written off the professional side and rebuilt the club around the second XV. In most clubs the seconds are amateur and are legally separate from the professionals, meaning they carry on as normal when the pros go bust. If a club is really lucky, as with London Welsh, the amateur setup owned the ground so they get to keep it. There's nothing to stop Wasps fans from going to watch the original Wasps playing at tier 8.

    If they really want a big stadium and a place in the Championship, they're going to face a lot of hurdles. Not least, that the Championship clubs by & large are pretty angry at the way the Premiership has stopped them getting promotion, and aren't likely to be enthusiastic about budging up to make room for an ex-Premiership club that wants in. Then, if they can get into tier 2, there's the struggle to attract investors when there's no realistic route to the top level. That's the whole reason their deal to re-start in tier 2 this year fell apart.

    This seems to be to be another of their new owners' bright ideas, like sharing at Worcester. They come up with these things, but they don't think them through first.
  • Swisdom
    Swisdom Posts: 14,980
    This would be abour 3 miles from the new Millwall training ground which has got planning consent.  And if it is where I think it is then there is very little residential to oppose it.  

    The train would be the Swanley to Farningham Road route so a decent line in To Victoria and it’s not impossible a new station could be built but realistically this spot is slap bang between the two stations and only a couple of minutes by coach from either.

    on one hand you could say they would get sufficient interest because of the lack of professional rugby in the area or you could argue there is just no interest at all.  Will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere 
  • MrWalker
    MrWalker Posts: 4,161
    I’ve heard it’s only the bee team moving there.
  • _MrDick
    _MrDick Posts: 13,147
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Disagree on the transport. I used to live in Swanley. Good connections from London and Kent 

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  • _MrDick
    _MrDick Posts: 13,147
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Disagree .. there’s a lot of rugby interest in our part of the world. In the boroughs of Greenwich and Bexley there’s at least 10 community clubs. I can see why Wasps might want to set up in Swanley. Motorway connections, rail connections. Huge catchment area. For the size of London, there are only two top tier clubs. Saracens in North London and Harlequins in West London. The South East needs a professional club, IMO.
  • Dizzle
    Dizzle Posts: 5,192
    Would rather keep the golf club, from a personal perspective
  • Crusty54
    Crusty54 Posts: 3,276
    Westcombe Park play nearby and are now in the 4th tier. A successful community club but I think that the collapse of London Irish shows that London would struggle to support another club nowadays.
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 27,091
    _MrDick said:
    killerandflash said:
    A 26k stadium in an area with little club rugby interest, and poor public transport connections from London. Sounds very dubious to me.
    Disagree .. there’s a lot of rugby interest in our part of the world. In the boroughs of Greenwich and Bexley there’s at least 10 community clubs. I can see why Wasps might want to set up in Swanley. Motorway connections, rail connections. Huge catchment area. For the size of London, there are only two top tier clubs. Saracens in North London and Harlequins in West London. The South East needs a professional club, IMO.
    If it needed a professional club it would have had one. 
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,869
    I just don’t buy there is interest in Club rugby that requires a stadium with a capacity of more then 18k, not even Bath or Gloucester are aiming beyond that. 

    Also still to be convinced that London has the market for more then two established premiership clubs 
  • Jints
    Jints Posts: 3,526
    Piece in the Times about this which says that the stadium will derive most of its income from "concerts, exhibitions, conferences and an on-site hotel" and compares it to the O2 arena. So, possibly the audience for rugby mataches is secondary in any business case. 
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,869
    Yeah, saw that, and it’s puff, the only fear the O2 has, is that MGM gets its way, and builds a Sphere at Olympic Park 
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,881
    Swisdom said:
    This would be abour 3 miles from the new Millwall training ground which has got planning consent.  And if it is where I think it is then there is very little residential to oppose it.  

    The train would be the Swanley to Farningham Road route so a decent line in To Victoria and it’s not impossible a new station could be built but realistically this spot is slap bang between the two stations and only a couple of minutes by coach from either.

    on one hand you could say they would get sufficient interest because of the lack of professional rugby in the area or you could argue there is just no interest at all.  Will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere 

    All part of Millwall's move to Kent 
  • Billy_Mix
    Billy_Mix Posts: 2,746
    Rothko said:
    I just don’t buy there is interest in Club rugby that requires a stadium with a capacity of more then 18k, not even Bath or Gloucester are aiming beyond that. 

    Also still to be convinced that London has the market for more then two established premiership clubs 
    The article does quote it as a multi use stadium
    The mooted development ain't just focussed on the funny shaped balls
    Wasps might not fill it very often but to limit the capacity to 18k would have to be short sighted, wouldn't it?
    KCC planning will put it through on 'the nod' if the application reads like it adds up and all aspects and "fees"  have been taken care of.

    If anything gets off the ground the developer will have to budget loads for site security given the extraordinary mobility of anything at all of value in the Swanley area that isn't very securely tied down and locked up.
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 58,148
    It’s a good job that the Dartford Bridge / M25 / A2 /A20 area doesn’t suffer any forms of traffic problems at all and is well suited to Chuck another few thousand cars into the mix 

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