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Another Shooting In America?
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If we had more access to guns in the UK there would be carnage. There are plenty of f***ed up people in the UK.Callumcafc said:“It’s mental health issues” - mental health is not exclusive to the USA
”It’s violent video games” - violent video games are available worldwideThe issue, plain and simple, is access to guns.
The availability of guns in the US is insane...2 -
Best summation of the situation I’ve read. Only one word for this country: backwards.6
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Confirmation bias. You're seeing things that reinforce your belief that knife crime is on the rise, but statistics show the opposite. Ready access to devices that can record hi def video and pictures mean that evidence of this kind of crime is far, far more common than it uses to be, whilst the incidences of the crime itself are actually decreasing. It's the same reason (but reversed) that the number of people reporting UFO sightings has plummeted since the advent of smartphones...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I'm certainly no expert, but the way the UK seems to be going i'd expect that gap to close in the coming years.Huskaris said:
They do indeed.WSS said:They definitely have knives in America as well...
Without looking at the stats, I can imagine 'per head' they are just as bad (if not worse) than us in terms of knife-based murders.
5 per million killed by knives in the USA vs about 3.3 in the UK.
About 34 per million killed by guns in the USA vs about 0.3 in the UK.
Americans play on average 7.7 hours of video games a week vs 7.17 in the UK, so not a huge difference.
Saw a video on twitter a couple of weeks ago where a woman was pushed over and then stabbed by a schoolkid in Croydon. He didn't give a shit, done in broad daylight, in front of people filming and at least 50 onlookers.10 -
The UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I'm certainly no expert, but the way the UK seems to be going i'd expect that gap to close in the coming years.Huskaris said:
They do indeed.WSS said:They definitely have knives in America as well...
Without looking at the stats, I can imagine 'per head' they are just as bad (if not worse) than us in terms of knife-based murders.
5 per million killed by knives in the USA vs about 3.3 in the UK.
About 34 per million killed by guns in the USA vs about 0.3 in the UK.
Americans play on average 7.7 hours of video games a week vs 7.17 in the UK, so not a huge difference.
Saw a video on twitter a couple of weeks ago where a woman was pushed over and then stabbed by a schoolkid in Croydon. He didn't give a shit, done in broad daylight, in front of people filming and at least 50 onlookers.
The rates are not increasing rapidly. Nothing has changed from 10 years ago other than people's imaginations.0 -
Again, confirmation bias. As we get older, we tend to see things through rose-tinted glasses. The UK is, statistically speaking, safer than it has ever been at any time in the past (events like Covid notwithstanding) - and continues to get safer each year. What DOES get worse is inequality in wealth, opportunity and familial breakdown/lack of strong, tangible role models, all of which help lead to a much greater risk of being a victim of a violent crime if you are in a specific demographic (in the cities in the UK, that invariably means young, male and ethnic minority)SELR_addicks said:
The UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I'm certainly no expert, but the way the UK seems to be going i'd expect that gap to close in the coming years.Huskaris said:
They do indeed.WSS said:They definitely have knives in America as well...
Without looking at the stats, I can imagine 'per head' they are just as bad (if not worse) than us in terms of knife-based murders.
5 per million killed by knives in the USA vs about 3.3 in the UK.
About 34 per million killed by guns in the USA vs about 0.3 in the UK.
Americans play on average 7.7 hours of video games a week vs 7.17 in the UK, so not a huge difference.
Saw a video on twitter a couple of weeks ago where a woman was pushed over and then stabbed by a schoolkid in Croydon. He didn't give a shit, done in broad daylight, in front of people filming and at least 50 onlookers.
The rates are not increasing rapidly. Nothing has changed from 10 years ago other than people's imaginations.6 -
I think SELR was agreeing with you rather than disagreeing - ie people have been saying the country has been going down the pan for 50 years.
Either way, you're spot on.
My hypothesis is that the innocence of youth will always have human beings believe that life was better/safer when you were a kid.3 -
A lot longer than that evenSELR_addicks said:
The UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I'm certainly no expert, but the way the UK seems to be going i'd expect that gap to close in the coming years.Huskaris said:
They do indeed.WSS said:They definitely have knives in America as well...
Without looking at the stats, I can imagine 'per head' they are just as bad (if not worse) than us in terms of knife-based murders.
5 per million killed by knives in the USA vs about 3.3 in the UK.
About 34 per million killed by guns in the USA vs about 0.3 in the UK.
Americans play on average 7.7 hours of video games a week vs 7.17 in the UK, so not a huge difference.
Saw a video on twitter a couple of weeks ago where a woman was pushed over and then stabbed by a schoolkid in Croydon. He didn't give a shit, done in broad daylight, in front of people filming and at least 50 onlookers.
The rates are not increasing rapidly. Nothing has changed from 10 years ago other than people's imaginations.0 -
The massive problem is that an average American sees keeping a gun as a way of protecting his home and family. An intruder even if carrying full well knows this. How do you reverse the status quo so that the homeowner isn’t armed and therefore the intruders don’t feel the need to be likewise “protected” ? It’s just not possible to make the reverse. It’s too late. That’s not even taking into consideration that there is not the slightest will or inclination to do so.0
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No - he was saying the UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years - I was pointing out that, over that period, the UK has, instead got FAR safer than it was. I'm sure we had this discussion a couple of years ago...Callumcafc said:I think SELR was agreeing with you rather than disagreeing - ie people have been saying the country has been going down the pan for 50 years.
Either way, you're spot on.
My hypothesis is that the innocence of youth will always have human beings believe that life was better/safer when you were a kid.1 -
I think it was sarcasm...1
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From where we view this from, there isn't really two positions. Of course the US needs tighter gun controls. What is interesting, is how a significant number of Americans see it otherwise. It just shows you how easy it is to be wrong and blind yourself to facts.0
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I’m late to this because I couldn’t bring myself to the subject but although there are multiple studies that confirm that violence in video games does not breed violence I can’t help thinking that it’s not a healthy thing to normalise violence in what are effectively toys. I don’t think the world would be a worse place if violent games didn’t exist.1
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America chose their Sandy Hook response instead. Which one turned out better?0 -
This is where our current Prime Minister stood on the debate at the time, surprised?
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MuttleyCAFC said:From where we view this from, there isn't really two positions. Of course the US needs tighter gun controls. What is interesting, is how a significant number of Americans see it otherwise. It just shows you how easy it is to be wrong and blind yourself to facts.I think the cultural aspects hit the nail on the head. The US is steeped in gun culture, based on a twisted understanding of the premise of the second amendment and historical myths / utter nonsense about "freedom". The genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in. They cant even manage to introduce sensible background checks to weed out some of the nutnuts that want stupidly powerful guns. The whole system there is completely bizarre to anyone outside the USA, but they are surrounded by it from birth so it is normalised for them. The victims of these shootings absolutely dont deserve it, but the USA as a nation absolutely does. Let them murder each other and live in fear of random attacks, and their kids be shot in primary schools, so long as they have their freedom.Totally fucked as a country.1
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Nope Callum has it right in one.Leroy Ambrose said:
No - he was saying the UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years - I was pointing out that, over that period, the UK has, instead got FAR safer than it was. I'm sure we had this discussion a couple of years ago...Callumcafc said:I think SELR was agreeing with you rather than disagreeing - ie people have been saying the country has been going down the pan for 50 years.
Either way, you're spot on.
My hypothesis is that the innocence of youth will always have human beings believe that life was better/safer when you were a kid.
People are always saying the current generation are worse than the ones before, it is never true.
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Ha. The subtlety in your response evaded me. I've been on Twitter too long... 😏SELR_addicks said:
Nope Callum has it right in one.Leroy Ambrose said:
No - he was saying the UK has been going to the dogs for 50 years - I was pointing out that, over that period, the UK has, instead got FAR safer than it was. I'm sure we had this discussion a couple of years ago...Callumcafc said:I think SELR was agreeing with you rather than disagreeing - ie people have been saying the country has been going down the pan for 50 years.
Either way, you're spot on.
My hypothesis is that the innocence of youth will always have human beings believe that life was better/safer when you were a kid.
People are always saying the current generation are worse than the ones before, it is never true.3 -
That article is shocking, but in fairness he probably doesn’t believe a word of it, in 1997 I imagine the idea from his point of view would’ve been to look good in the eyes of the conservative hierarchy and the telegraph bosses, protecting old money at all costs.SELR_addicks said:This is where our current Prime Minister stood on the debate at the time, surprised?2 -
Why can't we have a law that makes carrying a knife unless in the line of your business, a custodial offence?0
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The prisons would be full in a matter of days.creepyaddick said:Why can't we have a law that makes carrying a knife unless in the line of your business, a custodial offence?0 -
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Not a worse place for you, sure, what about those people that enjoy games and have never considered shooting anyone?ShootersHillGuru said:I’m late to this because I couldn’t bring myself to the subject but although there are multiple studies that confirm that violence in video games does not breed violence I can’t help thinking that it’s not a healthy thing to normalise violence in what are effectively toys. I don’t think the world would be a worse place if violent games didn’t exist.
Switzerland has both high gun ownership rates and violent video games, yet these mass shootings don’t seem to be such an issue. The problem is not guns (although they make the problem worse), or video games, it’s the absolutely flawed mindset of so many Americans.0 -
Gun ownership in Switzerland is very different to the US and is mainly linked with the Swiss having to do compulsory national service and being able to step up for service or training at any time during their nine year availability to serve.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Not a worse place for you, sure, what about those people that enjoy games and have never considered shooting anyone?ShootersHillGuru said:I’m late to this because I couldn’t bring myself to the subject but although there are multiple studies that confirm that violence in video games does not breed violence I can’t help thinking that it’s not a healthy thing to normalise violence in what are effectively toys. I don’t think the world would be a worse place if violent games didn’t exist.
Switzerland has both high gun ownership rates and violent video games, yet these mass shootings don’t seem to be such an issue. The problem is not guns (although they make the problem worse), or video games, it’s the absolutely flawed mindset of so many Americans.
As a result many Swiss keep their military firearms at home as they need to do once a year testing, but they are not supposed to keep ammunition at home.
So, yes, gun ownership in Switzerland is very high but the guns are held by trained soldiers not some inbred teenage redneck fuckwit angry cause he can’t get laid.2 -
Which links in with the messed up mindset and that Tom, Dick or Harry can own a gun in the states, it’s insane.2
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You know the real problem here is that there is too many doors.0
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The thing is, a well adjusted person can watch and enjoy violent films and video games and not copy them. Personally, I don't think there is a firm link and the important factor is a messed up individual. In America you can be messed up and still access or own a gun. Imagine how scary that would be if it was the case here?0
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I agree entirely with this point of a well-adjisted person being perfectly able to watch violent films and video games and not copy them. But ...because clearly there are large numbers of people who are NOT well adjusted ~ I say, out of charity , for those not so well-adjusted, we ban this stuff. This reasoning can be applied to alcohol, gambling and many other very very harmful things in society. For too long now we have allowed so many things in our permissive and broken society not with the vulnerable ever in mind but the strong.MuttleyCAFC said:The thing is, a well adjusted person can watch and enjoy violent films and video games and not copy them. Personally, I don't think there is a firm link and the important factor is a messed up individual. In America you can be messed up and still access or own a gun. Imagine how scary that would be if it was the case here?
It is time we make a decision based on what is actually better for society. I don't see what harm it brings to anyone well adjusted or vulnerable, when we decide to shelve violent films and video games. I'd certainly not stop there either.1 -
Good point.Ormiston_Addick said:
Gun ownership in Switzerland is very different to the US and is mainly linked with the Swiss having to do compulsory national service and being able to step up for service or training at any time during their nine year availability to serve.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Not a worse place for you, sure, what about those people that enjoy games and have never considered shooting anyone?ShootersHillGuru said:I’m late to this because I couldn’t bring myself to the subject but although there are multiple studies that confirm that violence in video games does not breed violence I can’t help thinking that it’s not a healthy thing to normalise violence in what are effectively toys. I don’t think the world would be a worse place if violent games didn’t exist.
Switzerland has both high gun ownership rates and violent video games, yet these mass shootings don’t seem to be such an issue. The problem is not guns (although they make the problem worse), or video games, it’s the absolutely flawed mindset of so many Americans.
As a result many Swiss keep their military firearms at home as they need to do once a year testing, but they are not supposed to keep ammunition at home.
So, yes, gun ownership in Switzerland is very high but the guns are held by trained soldiers not some inbred teenage redneck fuckwit angry cause he can’t get laid.0 -
Good idea. Although the reasoning of many young men today is they are tooled up because the street is a very dangerous place now. I'd be interested to see what investment goes into making that street safer.eaststandmike said:
The prisons would be full in a matter of days.creepyaddick said:Why can't we have a law that makes carrying a knife unless in the line of your business, a custodial offence?
Obviously police are seemingly no longer allowed to "stop and search" anyone anymore for fear of being called racist (even though the majority of fatal knife crimes in London are in fact between black males. So with it being impossible to make the streets safer, young people tool themselves up. The most vicious of cycles continues. We have identified a significant part of the problem. We have identified the solution. We have identified that we choose NOT to solve this problem. On it goes ...0 -
Good point SHG.ShootersHillGuru said:The massive problem is that an average American sees keeping a gun as a way of protecting his home and family. An intruder even if carrying full well knows this. How do you reverse the status quo so that the homeowner isn’t armed and therefore the intruders don’t feel the need to be likewise “protected” ? It’s just not possible to make the reverse. It’s too late. That’s not even taking into consideration that there is not the slightest will or inclination to do so.0 -
So you’d banValleyOfTears said:
I agree entirely with this point of a well-adjisted person being perfectly able to watch violent films and video games and not copy them. But ...because clearly there are large numbers of people who are NOT well adjusted ~ I say, out of charity , for those not so well-adjusted, we ban this stuff. This reasoning can be applied to alcohol, gambling and many other very very harmful things in society. For too long now we have allowed so many things in our permissive and broken society not with the vulnerable ever in mind but the strong.MuttleyCAFC said:The thing is, a well adjusted person can watch and enjoy violent films and video games and not copy them. Personally, I don't think there is a firm link and the important factor is a messed up individual. In America you can be messed up and still access or own a gun. Imagine how scary that would be if it was the case here?
It is time we make a decision based on what is actually better for society. I don't see what harm it brings to anyone well adjusted or vulnerable, when we decide to shelve violent films and video games. I'd certainly not stop there either.
violent video games (is Pac-Man violent)
violent movies (teenage mutant ninja turtles?)
gambling
alcohol
what about contact sports, like wrestling and boxing?0
This discussion has been closed.
