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Charlie Kirk (p68 - released by Barrow)
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We didn't see the best of him during his short spell at Charlton. Sometimes it happens in football. He's clearly more comfortable up in the North West.
If we can get the fee back, Blackpool are welcome to him. Hope he has a great career up there as he seems like a lovely person.4 -
He isn't a number 10. At all.Braziliance said:
This is what I’m saying, it’s almost like a culture issue at Charlton. I love a Dobbo and Cullen as much as the next person but why is it every season we see these players drop ridiculous numbers goals and assists wise, Maddison, Reeves etc and the minute they get on a Charlton kit they look like average players and we ship them off. Can’t rack my head around itmendonca said:
Problem of being at Charlton is that if you are a creative player, you need to do 2/3 people's job else just receive criticism and get moved on.Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He’s a number 10 and arguably the best at that role outside of the premier league and the championship yet we play with wingbacks and don’t play it through the middle. With players like Dobson/Clare/JFC with wingers like DJ/CBT and potentially Kirk next season we are tailor made for a 4231 or wide diamond, instead we insist on a 532 where our only attacking opportunities come from CBT skinning someone or a hopeless ball in the box where Stockley is man marked by 2-3 centre backs. It’s infuriating to watch and I can’t understand how we are willing to risk it again for another seasonScoham said:
We’ve not played Fraser out of position? Or are you referring to Ipswich playing him on the wing?Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He didn't play there for MK Dons, Ipswich bought him and tried playing him as a No 10 and it failed massively, then they shoved him out on the left wing and he did worse.
He needs the game to be in front of him.6 -
Not sure I'm understanding the criticism related to Fraser.
Kirk outright doesn't have a place in a 352 system. Fraser does.
Hopeless balls in the box are far more common when you're playing one up top in a 4231 than with two up top in a 352.1 -
You say that but I’ve watched him play against us twice in a free role initially starting in a midfield 3 and absolutely running the show. Sounds like Ipswich have exactly our problem then, get good players and don’t know how to utilise them. From what I’ve seen he doesn’t need the game infront of him, he calls for the ball and had intelligent movement. Unfortunately for him he’s signed for a club where it’s in our dna to be against players who show more skill than grit and have a recent history of bad managers.Cafc43v3r said:
He isn't a number 10. At all.Braziliance said:
This is what I’m saying, it’s almost like a culture issue at Charlton. I love a Dobbo and Cullen as much as the next person but why is it every season we see these players drop ridiculous numbers goals and assists wise, Maddison, Reeves etc and the minute they get on a Charlton kit they look like average players and we ship them off. Can’t rack my head around itmendonca said:
Problem of being at Charlton is that if you are a creative player, you need to do 2/3 people's job else just receive criticism and get moved on.Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He’s a number 10 and arguably the best at that role outside of the premier league and the championship yet we play with wingbacks and don’t play it through the middle. With players like Dobson/Clare/JFC with wingers like DJ/CBT and potentially Kirk next season we are tailor made for a 4231 or wide diamond, instead we insist on a 532 where our only attacking opportunities come from CBT skinning someone or a hopeless ball in the box where Stockley is man marked by 2-3 centre backs. It’s infuriating to watch and I can’t understand how we are willing to risk it again for another seasonScoham said:
We’ve not played Fraser out of position? Or are you referring to Ipswich playing him on the wing?Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He didn't play there for MK Dons, Ipswich bought him and tried playing him as a No 10 and it failed massively, then they shoved him out on the left wing and he did worse.
He needs the game to be in front of him.He would thrive surrounded by runners, only have to watch him once to understand that0 -
Let's hope our next signings are Mo Farah, Steve Cram and Roger Bannister then!Braziliance said:
You say that but I’ve watched him play against us twice in a free role initially starting in a midfield 3 and absolutely running the show. Sounds like Ipswich have exactly our problem then, get good players and don’t know how to utilise them. From what I’ve seen he doesn’t need the game infront of him, he calls for the ball and had intelligent movement. Unfortunately for him he’s signed for a club where it’s in our dna to be against players who show more skill than grit and have a recent history of bad managers.Cafc43v3r said:
He isn't a number 10. At all.Braziliance said:
This is what I’m saying, it’s almost like a culture issue at Charlton. I love a Dobbo and Cullen as much as the next person but why is it every season we see these players drop ridiculous numbers goals and assists wise, Maddison, Reeves etc and the minute they get on a Charlton kit they look like average players and we ship them off. Can’t rack my head around itmendonca said:
Problem of being at Charlton is that if you are a creative player, you need to do 2/3 people's job else just receive criticism and get moved on.Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He’s a number 10 and arguably the best at that role outside of the premier league and the championship yet we play with wingbacks and don’t play it through the middle. With players like Dobson/Clare/JFC with wingers like DJ/CBT and potentially Kirk next season we are tailor made for a 4231 or wide diamond, instead we insist on a 532 where our only attacking opportunities come from CBT skinning someone or a hopeless ball in the box where Stockley is man marked by 2-3 centre backs. It’s infuriating to watch and I can’t understand how we are willing to risk it again for another seasonScoham said:
We’ve not played Fraser out of position? Or are you referring to Ipswich playing him on the wing?Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He didn't play there for MK Dons, Ipswich bought him and tried playing him as a No 10 and it failed massively, then they shoved him out on the left wing and he did worse.
He needs the game to be in front of him.He would thrive surrounded by runners, only have to watch him once to understand that2 -
Kirk never had a place in our 4231 either, not if the manager wanted a Millar.Callumcafc said:Not sure I'm understanding the criticism related to Fraser.
Kirk outright doesn't have a place in a 352 system. Fraser does.
Hopeless balls in the box are far more common when you're playing one up top in a 4231 than with two up top in a 352.
I have seen us play hopeless balls in to the box, towards a big center foward playing 442, 433, 451, 4231, 352 and anything in between. We have never done it by design and never been good at it.0 -
Fraser signed in January, has had Covid and recently picked up an injury. I don’t think it’s fair to say we’ve failed to get the best out of him yet, he’s not had a decent run of games to properly get going.We do need to be better at maintaining possession to get him more involved but not every player gets off to a great start, especially a creative player who’s been thrown into an inconsistent team.5
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Kirk never got a run of games with us and tbh the minutes he did get on he was really poor however there is obviously a decent player in there. It does seem like we struggle to get anything like the potential out of creative players recently. If you look at players like Kirk, DJ, Gilbey, Fraser even back to Maddison last season they just seem like totally different players to the ones we signed.1
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When you break it down player by player it shows there’s more to it than us struggling to use creative players.
Kirk came from Crewe, a possession based team. He doesn’t seem to have settled in London and after Jackson took over didn’t suit the formation.
DJ came from a struggling Swindon team, let’s not make out he was playing like a top end L1 player because he’s never shown that form during his career so far.
Gilbey’s a runner, he’s not creative player at all. His main strength is driving forward with the ball, but it’s all pace and athleticism than quick feet and flair.
Fraser I’ve mentioned above.
Maddison was suffering with his mental health and has since dropped to the 8th tier. Before coming to us he didn’t impress at Hull and Posh didn’t try to keep him.3 -
Agree with that last part. If we're 15th in the league for passes per sequence, what chance has Fraser got.Scoham said:Fraser signed in January, has had Covid and recently picked up an injury. I don’t think it’s fair to say we’ve failed to get the best out of him yet, he’s not had a decent run of games to properly get going.We do need to be better at maintaining possession to get him more involved but not every player gets off to a great start, especially a creative player who’s been thrown into an inconsistent team.1 - Sponsored links:
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I gather Cram is a decent centre half.Off_it said:
Let's hope our next signings are Mo Farah, Steve Cram and Roger Bannister then!Braziliance said:
You say that but I’ve watched him play against us twice in a free role initially starting in a midfield 3 and absolutely running the show. Sounds like Ipswich have exactly our problem then, get good players and don’t know how to utilise them. From what I’ve seen he doesn’t need the game infront of him, he calls for the ball and had intelligent movement. Unfortunately for him he’s signed for a club where it’s in our dna to be against players who show more skill than grit and have a recent history of bad managers.Cafc43v3r said:
He isn't a number 10. At all.Braziliance said:
This is what I’m saying, it’s almost like a culture issue at Charlton. I love a Dobbo and Cullen as much as the next person but why is it every season we see these players drop ridiculous numbers goals and assists wise, Maddison, Reeves etc and the minute they get on a Charlton kit they look like average players and we ship them off. Can’t rack my head around itmendonca said:
Problem of being at Charlton is that if you are a creative player, you need to do 2/3 people's job else just receive criticism and get moved on.Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He’s a number 10 and arguably the best at that role outside of the premier league and the championship yet we play with wingbacks and don’t play it through the middle. With players like Dobson/Clare/JFC with wingers like DJ/CBT and potentially Kirk next season we are tailor made for a 4231 or wide diamond, instead we insist on a 532 where our only attacking opportunities come from CBT skinning someone or a hopeless ball in the box where Stockley is man marked by 2-3 centre backs. It’s infuriating to watch and I can’t understand how we are willing to risk it again for another seasonScoham said:
We’ve not played Fraser out of position? Or are you referring to Ipswich playing him on the wing?Braziliance said:Another player, like Fraser who thrives outside of Charlton. Cursed club, we just aren’t allowed any players with gifted technical abilities in recent years. Limited to work horses with a pair of sponge feet.It is absolutely a mismanagement issue, that’s Jaiyesimi, Fraser and Kirk all been played in the wrong positions this season. They’re all clearly very talented players and we need the right coaching team to get the best out of them
He didn't play there for MK Dons, Ipswich bought him and tried playing him as a No 10 and it failed massively, then they shoved him out on the left wing and he did worse.
He needs the game to be in front of him.He would thrive surrounded by runners, only have to watch him once to understand that0 -
Starts tonight with Blackpool @ Barnsley
Game is on the SKY Sports Red Button1 -
Great goal from Dale. If MacG shanked a clearance like that I'd have been fuming, somehow for other clubs it leads to a goal?!
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Btw there's nothing to comment about Kirk so far, he's a safe bet at LM when your RM player is the best player on the pitch.1
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Lowery to Blackpool must be odds on.1
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Kirk got subbed off, half way through 2nd half.
I don't think he's played many full games for Blackpool.
He's either started and subbed or a sub that gets on.
I think he's done ok at Blackpool, not bad, but not great.0 -
For the last time (it won't be !)
We don't play 5-3-2 ! JJ calls it 3-5-2 which can become 5-3-2 if needs must. No radical change just the wing backs holding their positions and becoming a 5 in a defensive shape. In League 1 we would be in a sorry old state if you played 5-3-2 for 90 minutes !
Slag off 3-5-2 all you want but since changing formation from a mainly 4-2-3-1 we have gone from 22nd to 12th and yet some say JJ is tactically naive ! As I said from the off, to really go higher you need faster player than Matthews and Purrington to play that position despite both of them being OK. In the youth academy matches I watch the attacking backs are the fittest and fastest players on the pitch.
Charlie Kirk was our nap signing and it didn't work for various reasons. A four year contract yet he was our weakest player and lightweight from the off. If he was that talented why did he get some of the lowest marks ever when he played one game as the 8 or attacking midfielder. He doesn't have pace so really that should be a position which would suit him as he can control the ball and I thought his passing would be good. Formations are so fluid now that players have to adapt their games for the good of the team but that doesn't mean square pegs in round holes.
Crewe in recent years are a yo/yo League 1 and 2 club. Some on here were singing his praises at Crewe, But his tackling looked weak, he didn't go past people and he had to cut inside from the left because he was right footed. His main talent at Crewe was feeding Harry Pickering when over lapping or I assume using him as a decoy runner and Charlie would then cut in on his right foot.
Alfie Doughty and Iain Maatsen* on the right wing was just plain wrong, on their wrong foot, YBG worked ok because he didn't have pace but had the ability to be a successful inverse wide man. Yohan played on both sides for Burnley over the years.
*Rudd van Maatsen score early doors on the right wing when tried there or Right of the main striker in a 3 but it negated his pace and his game suffered from that radical switch. Iain game was suited to being a left wing back if he improved the defensive part of his game.1 -
Kirk is very well thought of at Pool. Not played much because Bowler plays a similar role and has been outstanding. It seems Bowler may be off in the summer ( Forest ?). I'm sure we will sign Kirk and he will fit in well.8
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how does Kirk earn enough to buy Blackpool, or did I read the thread wrong?1
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The Kirk to Charlton transfer happened at the wrong time,he had lost his father,and then to ask a young lad to uproot and live 200 miles away with a bunch of strangers ,no family around him,was completely wrong,and it showed in his play.I think there is a good player there,if he does come back to us under more settled circumstances,he could prove a lot of people wrong.8
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I don't feel like he particularly wants to come back.
He'll go in the summer for a lot less than we bought him for.2 -
I agree that the transfer was probably at the wrong time. But no chance he comes back and proves people wrong, there is no place for him in this system.thickandthin63 said:The Kirk to Charlton transfer happened at the wrong time,he had lost his father,and then to ask a young lad to uproot and live 200 miles away with a bunch of strangers ,no family around him,was completely wrong,and it showed in his play.I think there is a good player there,if he does come back to us under more settled circumstances,he could prove a lot of people wrong.1 -
Sounds like Kirk has been promised a chance to be a wing back if a move does not work out. Bet he can't wait.0
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He wants to stay at Blackpool, he’ll definitely leave this summer but we won’t get less than what we bought him for.SELR_addicks said:I don't feel like he particularly wants to come back.
He'll go in the summer for a lot less than we bought him for.4 -
From a certain perspective, he was actually a good signing in that he's now playing in the Championship. Not that he ever played well for us (didn't play awful either) but you'd think that in a different set of circumstances surrounding his personal life and our general poor start to the league, things might have worked out differently.
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Kirk may well be a good player, for somebody else.
So far his play at Charlton has been worse than Gilbey, and that’s saying something!
I very much fear that Fraser might complete this particular set.
It would be great to be wrong about those players, and next season they carry us to 100 points to stuff it down my throat.2 -
Same price we paid Crewe was part of the loan dealSELR_addicks said:I don't feel like he particularly wants to come back.
He'll go in the summer for a lot less than we bought him for.0
This discussion has been closed.
