Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Mason Burstow - on loan to Bolton from Hull (p53)
Comments
-
They can’t sell match tickets, sign players, renew contracts from what I’ve seenDazzler21 said:
Depends I guess if you pay the loan fee and wage contribution up front or in arrears.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can Charlton still play Burstow ? He’s a Chelsea asset effectively so owned by Ambramovich ultimately. Usually the club borrowing a player pays something towards the wages so if that’s true Charlton are effectively paying Chelsea aren’t they ?
I think Abramovich would be blocked from taking money out of Chelsea via the sanctions, but Chelsea can still operate.2 -
That'd explain why they show as Sold Out for most fixtures and the Club Chelsea packages don't load. I'd assume Chelsea have a foreign (Russian) bank account if this is the case.letthegoodtimesroll said:
They can’t sell match tickets, sign players, renew contracts from what I’ve seenDazzler21 said:
Depends I guess if you pay the loan fee and wage contribution up front or in arrears.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can Charlton still play Burstow ? He’s a Chelsea asset effectively so owned by Ambramovich ultimately. Usually the club borrowing a player pays something towards the wages so if that’s true Charlton are effectively paying Chelsea aren’t they ?
I think Abramovich would be blocked from taking money out of Chelsea via the sanctions, but Chelsea can still operate.0 -
a) why would you assume that and b) I very much doubt it.Dazzler21 said:
That'd explain why they show as Sold Out for most fixtures and the Club Chelsea packages don't load. I'd assume Chelsea have a foreign (Russian) bank account if this is the case.letthegoodtimesroll said:
They can’t sell match tickets, sign players, renew contracts from what I’ve seenDazzler21 said:
Depends I guess if you pay the loan fee and wage contribution up front or in arrears.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can Charlton still play Burstow ? He’s a Chelsea asset effectively so owned by Ambramovich ultimately. Usually the club borrowing a player pays something towards the wages so if that’s true Charlton are effectively paying Chelsea aren’t they ?
I think Abramovich would be blocked from taking money out of Chelsea via the sanctions, but Chelsea can still operate.1 -
After the recent developments at Chelski he may end up being their first choice striker.cafcwill said:
After the recent Developments at Chelsea today i don' think that is currently possibleFortune 82nd Minute said:I've a feeling - based on absolutely and utterly nothing - that Burstow might be back here on loan next season.
Clearly at the moment he doesn't look ready for Championship football, let alone anything higher. So if it's a loan to a league 1 club, why not us? Chelsea know we will look after him properly and we can probably offer them a guaranteed place for Burstow in our starting 18.
If it was on offer, presumably we would accept? A front 4 of Stockley, Washington (if he resigns), Aneke (for the 4 games he will be fit for) and Burstow is not bad at this level.
1 -
This. It doesn’t matter who they bank with and having an account with one of the high street banks would be more practical anywayLargeAddick said:
a) why would you assume that and b) I very much doubt it.Dazzler21 said:
That'd explain why they show as Sold Out for most fixtures and the Club Chelsea packages don't load. I'd assume Chelsea have a foreign (Russian) bank account if this is the case.letthegoodtimesroll said:
They can’t sell match tickets, sign players, renew contracts from what I’ve seenDazzler21 said:
Depends I guess if you pay the loan fee and wage contribution up front or in arrears.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can Charlton still play Burstow ? He’s a Chelsea asset effectively so owned by Ambramovich ultimately. Usually the club borrowing a player pays something towards the wages so if that’s true Charlton are effectively paying Chelsea aren’t they ?
I think Abramovich would be blocked from taking money out of Chelsea via the sanctions, but Chelsea can still operate.0 -
If you think Burstow is the answer then I'd hate to see the question.
As for him being back here next season. I hope not as it would mean another season in this League for 2023/24 as he wouldn't score enough to help promotion.
2 -
Unless he gets better, obvs.golfaddick said:If you think Burstow is the answer then I'd hate to see the question.
As for him being back here next season. I hope not as it would mean another season in this League for 2023/24 as he wouldn't score enough to help promotion.0 -
Burstow may well have turned out to be a flash in the pan. Still doesn't mean the £1.6m is anything other than a derisory sum for a young English striker that has attention from a top club.
Rewriting of history is always done in hindsight. £1.6m was a poor bit of business that disappeared once February's wages hit.2 -
That would be karma at its very, very best.Wheresmeticket? said:
After the recent developments at Chelski he may end up being their first choice striker.cafcwill said:
After the recent Developments at Chelsea today i don' think that is currently possibleFortune 82nd Minute said:I've a feeling - based on absolutely and utterly nothing - that Burstow might be back here on loan next season.
Clearly at the moment he doesn't look ready for Championship football, let alone anything higher. So if it's a loan to a league 1 club, why not us? Chelsea know we will look after him properly and we can probably offer them a guaranteed place for Burstow in our starting 18.
If it was on offer, presumably we would accept? A front 4 of Stockley, Washington (if he resigns), Aneke (for the 4 games he will be fit for) and Burstow is not bad at this level.
1 -
I'd assumed that the Sanctions would be able to block a UK account from releasing money to a Russian and that a Russian bank would have less issues in the face of a sanction.LargeAddick said:
a) why would you assume that and b) I very much doubt it.Dazzler21 said:
That'd explain why they show as Sold Out for most fixtures and the Club Chelsea packages don't load. I'd assume Chelsea have a foreign (Russian) bank account if this is the case.letthegoodtimesroll said:
They can’t sell match tickets, sign players, renew contracts from what I’ve seenDazzler21 said:
Depends I guess if you pay the loan fee and wage contribution up front or in arrears.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can Charlton still play Burstow ? He’s a Chelsea asset effectively so owned by Ambramovich ultimately. Usually the club borrowing a player pays something towards the wages so if that’s true Charlton are effectively paying Chelsea aren’t they ?
I think Abramovich would be blocked from taking money out of Chelsea via the sanctions, but Chelsea can still operate.
Thinking more about it, I guess the club would have no way to pay a Russian account at the moment anyway?0 - Sponsored links:
-
/SELR_addicks said:
Some of us aren't "re-writing" history. We questioned why he should be worth more than £1.6m plus add ons (and the add ons are important in evaluating what is paid) for a player who had scored two goals in League 1. And who has still scored two goals in League 1. No hindsight whatsoever.Burstow may well have turned out to be a flash in the pan. Still doesn't mean the £1.6m is anything other than a derisory sum for a young English striker that has attention from a top club.
Rewriting of history is always done in hindsight. £1.6m was a poor bit of business that disappeared once February's wages hit.
We were also told by you that he should stay and score the goals that would take us into the play offs. But now we're being told that it's the money that he is now being paid that has made him try that bit less. What an absolute load of tosh. Do you seriously think that Burstow is the sort of lad that is going to down tools and count his monthly pay packet instead of giving his best?
There is a saying in financial services - "past performance is only a guide to future performance". There never was any meaningful "past performance" and the fact that a "young English striker has the attention from a top club" is irrelevant. There are numerous examples of clubs buying young players who end up producing nothing.
But, out of interest, what would you have demanded for Burstow in January? Plus add ons of course. £3m? £5m?£10m? £20m? Please do bear in mind that Brentford paid Peterborough £5m for the then 22 year old Ivan Toney who had 76 goals behind him of which 55 (not two) were scored in League 1.6 -
So easy to say 1.6 million was poor bit of business when it isn’t your money. Thomas wouldn’t have got anywhere near that if he tried selling him this summer, so he has done incredibly well in my eyes9
-
Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
0 -
Are you really quoting Darrach MacAnthony - this is the man who had a £2.5m buyout clause into Maddison's contract. Where is he now?SELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
Remember this?MacAnthony says that Charlton agreed a fee of £1.5million for Maddison with further payments of £500,000 if he played 50 games and the SE7 outfit won promotion.
MacAnthony said Addicks executive chairman Southall had initially asked about signing Ivan Toney. “I told him to forget Ivan – there’s no way he’s going to Charlton. You can’t afford him. He wanted a figure and he threw figures around and I said no. The only player that I will be willing to do business on is Marcus Maddison.”
But, back to my original question. What do you really think he was worth in January and what he would have been worth had we sold him in the summer?
0 -
SELR_addicks said:Burstow may well have turned out to be a flash in the pan. Still doesn't mean the £1.6m is anything other than a derisory sum for a young English striker that has attention from a top club.
Rewriting of history is always done in hindsight. £1.6m was a poor bit of business that disappeared once February's wages hit.This is honestly hilarious. Those who felt the fee wasn't derisory pointed out that he'd played a few games, scored a few goals, mostly in the Pizza Cup and hadn't really shown anything to indicate he would get anywhere near the Chelsea team. It's not rewriting history that since the sale he's looked incredibly ordinary and out of his depth, the price Chelsea were willing to pay related to the very real chance that this could happen. Chelsea took a gamble on him that was a drop in the ocean for them. If Burstow turned out to be good enough, which was very unlikely, they'd have played a blinder. If not that's nothing, they get that more than that in loan fees for players they send out. If anything it has worked out well for us that he hit a bit of form right in time for the transfer window. He's got 2 league goals in 14 league games now, I doubt Chelsea would even consider bidding (in a world where they were allowed) unless he perked up a bit. They'd likely wait to see if he improved over the next year or so. Selling potential at the right time is a gamble. Burstow might be brilliant from here and be worth a £5m bid in the summer but for what he was at the time Chelsea bid we got a good deal, and right now it's looking like it'll work out more in our favour than theirs. It's not rewriting history, the bids are made based on a seesaw of potential vs reality and all we can do is look back and see who it worked out best for.7 -
I would go as far as saying he has done so well, he could be arrested for theft.000__Jaaaaay__000 said:So easy to say 1.6 million was poor bit of business when it isn’t your money. Thomas wouldn’t have got anywhere near that if he tried selling him this summer, so he has done incredibly well in my eyes1 -
I guess the club had a good idea of Mason's level of ability and thought he was being overvalued. It makes sense because he looks woefully out of his depth at the moment - and this is only League One. We've had youngsters who smashed it at this level and they were the same age or even younger than him.6
-
Darragh MacAnthony chats shitSELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
6 -
Sounds like a man that knows how to extract value from players.Addick Addict said:
Are you really quoting Darrach MacAnthony - this is the man who had a £2.5m buyout clause into Maddison's contract. Where is he now?SELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
Remember this?MacAnthony says that Charlton agreed a fee of £1.5million for Maddison with further payments of £500,000 if he played 50 games and the SE7 outfit won promotion.
MacAnthony said Addicks executive chairman Southall had initially asked about signing Ivan Toney. “I told him to forget Ivan – there’s no way he’s going to Charlton. You can’t afford him. He wanted a figure and he threw figures around and I said no. The only player that I will be willing to do business on is Marcus Maddison.”
But, back to my original question. What do you really think he was worth in January and what he would have been worth had we sold him in the summer?
Again, you think MacAnthony would have sold Toney for £5m if Covid didn't exist? He would have been sold for 8 figures.
With a player like Burstow with years on his contract, you don't just sell him at literally the base of his value. Which is the first transfer window and first offer that came along, TS snapped their hand off and that was it.
£1.6m is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jenkinson was sold in 2011 and you can't build a squad from a million anymore.
I would have rather taken the risk he would have played above his level the rest of the season and gone for 10 times his value. Right now he would probably still have fetched £1m plus in the summer because he's 18 and Chelsea scouts have known him for years.
We lose nothing waiting until the summer. His value doesn't drop below £1.6m judging from the rest of this season.0 -
So are you going to answer the question around what you think we should have valued him at? Considering £1.6m plus add ons is “derisory”?SELR_addicks said:
Sounds like a man that knows how to extract value from players.Addick Addict said:
Are you really quoting Darrach MacAnthony - this is the man who had a £2.5m buyout clause into Maddison's contract. Where is he now?SELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
Remember this?MacAnthony says that Charlton agreed a fee of £1.5million for Maddison with further payments of £500,000 if he played 50 games and the SE7 outfit won promotion.
MacAnthony said Addicks executive chairman Southall had initially asked about signing Ivan Toney. “I told him to forget Ivan – there’s no way he’s going to Charlton. You can’t afford him. He wanted a figure and he threw figures around and I said no. The only player that I will be willing to do business on is Marcus Maddison.”
But, back to my original question. What do you really think he was worth in January and what he would have been worth had we sold him in the summer?
Again, you think MacAnthony would have sold Toney for £5m if Covid didn't exist? He would have been sold for 8 figures.
With a player like Burstow with years on his contract, you don't just sell him at literally the base of his value. Which is the first transfer window and first offer that came along, TS snapped their hand off and that was it.
£1.6m is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jenkinson was sold in 2011 and you can't build a squad from a million anymore.
I would have rather taken the risk he would have played above his level the rest of the season and gone for 10 times his value. Right now he would probably still have fetched £1m plus in the summer because he's 18 and Chelsea scouts have known him for years.
We lose nothing waiting until the summer. His value doesn't drop below £1.6m judging from the rest of this season.0 - Sponsored links:
-
I hope Mason has been paid his signing on fee.Must be some doubt now for all players how long the salaries will continue after this season.Whilst they and he will find other clubs the terms will likely be reduced as their then negotiating from a position of weakness.TS may have made the right call on this. Whether by luck or judgement and hopefully Mason too has benefited already in case it all goes sour.1
-
I thought Burstow was said to have another season on his contract (was never confirmed by the club either way), so by next January his value could have gone down as the club would he looking to get whatever they could for him.SELR_addicks said:
Sounds like a man that knows how to extract value from players.Addick Addict said:
Are you really quoting Darrach MacAnthony - this is the man who had a £2.5m buyout clause into Maddison's contract. Where is he now?SELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
Remember this?MacAnthony says that Charlton agreed a fee of £1.5million for Maddison with further payments of £500,000 if he played 50 games and the SE7 outfit won promotion.
MacAnthony said Addicks executive chairman Southall had initially asked about signing Ivan Toney. “I told him to forget Ivan – there’s no way he’s going to Charlton. You can’t afford him. He wanted a figure and he threw figures around and I said no. The only player that I will be willing to do business on is Marcus Maddison.”
But, back to my original question. What do you really think he was worth in January and what he would have been worth had we sold him in the summer?
Again, you think MacAnthony would have sold Toney for £5m if Covid didn't exist? He would have been sold for 8 figures.
With a player like Burstow with years on his contract, you don't just sell him at literally the base of his value. Which is the first transfer window and first offer that came along, TS snapped their hand off and that was it.
£1.6m is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jenkinson was sold in 2011 and you can't build a squad from a million anymore.
I would have rather taken the risk he would have played above his level the rest of the season and gone for 10 times his value. Right now he would probably still have fetched £1m plus in the summer because he's 18 and Chelsea scouts have known him for years.
We lose nothing waiting until the summer. His value doesn't drop below £1.6m judging from the rest of this season.He should be more effective alongside Stockley or Chuks, but I don’t think a good run of form for half a season would have added that much to his value, and there was always a risk he would stop scoring. Do it for a few seasons and be signed up to a long contract then he would be worth a lot more.
What was clear early on even when scoring goals was that he wasn’t another Gomez, Shelvey or Lookman potentially worth £10m+. He might get there one day but he has never shown that level of ability.3 -
Before Christmas, Mason was a young "unknown" playing for fun, with no pressure on him. Now he's a young player with a price tag on him, playing in a struggling team, and low in confidence.
It's ridiculous to say he's not trying or that the £1.6m fee was way too high (or indeed too low), as it's far too early to know how good he is. Chelsea took a punt, at the time £1.6m was nothing for them...9 -
Steve Avery told me tonight that he didn’t want Mason to go but that TS wanted to sell him0
-
They do have different agendas to be fair. Avory will want to be part of a promising player's development for as long as possible whereas TS has to balance the books, pay the bills and potentially bring in players who will be ready sooner rather than later to help get us out of this division.Taxi_Lad said:Steve Avery told me tonight that he didn’t want Mason to go but that TS wanted to sell him8 -
Let’s hope it was a cash up front deal0
-
Stage payments in roublesbillysboots said:Let’s hope it was a cash up front deal
3 -
Absolutely baseless speculation that you've made up to fit your argument. I'm sure in a magic otherworld we could have sold Chris Gunter for 9 figures if Covid hadn't hit. The reality is though when MacAnthony was telling everyone he wanted £11m for Toney in January...no-one paid it. I'm sure Covid knocked some money off Toney's sale price but it didn't halve it. This is the same Brentford who were about to get £28m for Ollie Watkins and everyone knew it, and yet MacAnthony still couldn't extract more than £5m from them. He talks a big game and that's about it. About 9 months ago MacAnthony was saying that Sriki Dembele was worth £15m and he just sold him for less than £4m. He spent what felt like years saying no-one could afford Mo Eisa but it sounds like they've taken a hit on his fee when selling him to Dons. You seem to think valuations of players is just shouting a number that you think is right and that being a fact. It isn't.SELR_addicks said:
Sounds like a man that knows how to extract value from players.Addick Addict said:
Are you really quoting Darrach MacAnthony - this is the man who had a £2.5m buyout clause into Maddison's contract. Where is he now?SELR_addicks said:Perhaps Premier League scouts and clubs have more intelligence and would realise that with our striking options severely limited, Burstow has been forced out of his comfort zone to play almost as a lone striker rather than impact sub that he had been before.
Chelsea have not bought Burstow for his current goal tally, they have bought him for his potential which a lot of scouts knew about before Burstow even signed for us.
Talk about Ivan Toney who was purchased after the Coronavirus pandemic, which led to a fire sale at Peterborough, doesn't indicate actual value. Here is the owner talking before Covid:"Speaking before the January transfer window, Posh chairman Darragh MacAnthony said a League One record fee - eclipsing the £11m paid by Everton for Ademola Lookman in 2017 - would be needed to prise former Newcastle and Northampton striker Toney away."
Remember this?MacAnthony says that Charlton agreed a fee of £1.5million for Maddison with further payments of £500,000 if he played 50 games and the SE7 outfit won promotion.
MacAnthony said Addicks executive chairman Southall had initially asked about signing Ivan Toney. “I told him to forget Ivan – there’s no way he’s going to Charlton. You can’t afford him. He wanted a figure and he threw figures around and I said no. The only player that I will be willing to do business on is Marcus Maddison.”
But, back to my original question. What do you really think he was worth in January and what he would have been worth had we sold him in the summer?
Again, you think MacAnthony would have sold Toney for £5m if Covid didn't exist? He would have been sold for 8 figures.
With a player like Burstow with years on his contract, you don't just sell him at literally the base of his value. Which is the first transfer window and first offer that came along, TS snapped their hand off and that was it.
£1.6m is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Jenkinson was sold in 2011 and you can't build a squad from a million anymore.
I would have rather taken the risk he would have played above his level the rest of the season and gone for 10 times his value. Right now he would probably still have fetched £1m plus in the summer because he's 18 and Chelsea scouts have known him for years.
We lose nothing waiting until the summer. His value doesn't drop below £1.6m judging from the rest of this season.
8 -
Uh oh, Cawley vs Airman about to have it out in Makros car park.
Meanwhile SELR is standing in the background muttering words like ‘derisory’ and telling everyone who’ll listen that Darragh would’ve got more.13
