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Mason Burstow - on loan to Bolton from Hull (p53)
Comments
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I don't dislike them for doing it. It is simply the way football has gone. I find it sad.jimmymelrose said:
Out of interest, do other fans dislike Brentford for this?Athletico Charlton said:
When small/new PL clubs like Brighton and Brentford are building models on player farming you know you have a growing problem on your hands. Football really is eating itself.Chris_from_Sidcup said:"Manchester City have joined West Ham and Brentford in showing an interest in Sheffield Wednesday's 16-year-old English forward Bailey Cadamarteri"
What a shock, another young striker ready to be poached by a PL club. Yes that is old Everton striker Danny's son.
Brentford who closed their academy to save money now trying to make other teams academies unviable by mopping up 16 year olds. Brighton who relied on the help of other small teams to even exist are doing the same.
When 60-70 non PL clubs decide to pack up their academies over the next 5-10 years it will be interesting to see what a great success EPPP has been for the long term future of the game.
Although I normally want newly promoted clubs to stay up, perhaps I should want them to fail, so that others don't follow their model.0 -
Calling him shauns son makes you feel older!Kap10 said:
Ian Wrights grandson, Bradley Wright Phillips nephew played for Stoke the other day .. that makes you know you are oldForeverAddickted said:
Wonder if he'll show more consistency with his promise compared with his DadChris_from_Sidcup said:"Manchester City have joined West Ham and Brentford in showing an interest in Sheffield Wednesday's 16-year-old English forward Bailey Cadamarteri"
What a shock, another young striker ready to be poached by a PL club. Yes that is old Everton striker Danny's son.
Yes - Danny Cadamarteri is his father - Makes me feel old seeing that0 -
Who?Airman Brown said:
No one cares about Brentford.jimmymelrose said:
Out of interest, do other fans dislike Brentford for this?Athletico Charlton said:
When small/new PL clubs like Brighton and Brentford are building models on player farming you know you have a growing problem on your hands. Football really is eating itself.Chris_from_Sidcup said:"Manchester City have joined West Ham and Brentford in showing an interest in Sheffield Wednesday's 16-year-old English forward Bailey Cadamarteri"
What a shock, another young striker ready to be poached by a PL club. Yes that is old Everton striker Danny's son.
Brentford who closed their academy to save money now trying to make other teams academies unviable by mopping up 16 year olds. Brighton who relied on the help of other small teams to even exist are doing the same.
When 60-70 non PL clubs decide to pack up their academies over the next 5-10 years it will be interesting to see what a great success EPPP has been for the long term future of the game.
Although I normally want newly promoted clubs to stay up, perhaps I should want them to fail, so that others don't follow their model.0 -
I remember Tony Hately, whose son Mark Hatley has since retired and I suspect if they continued the family tradition, his great Grandson might be debuting somewhere soon2121 said:
Calling him shauns son makes you feel older!Kap10 said:
Ian Wrights grandson, Bradley Wright Phillips nephew played for Stoke the other day .. that makes you know you are oldForeverAddickted said:
Wonder if he'll show more consistency with his promise compared with his DadChris_from_Sidcup said:"Manchester City have joined West Ham and Brentford in showing an interest in Sheffield Wednesday's 16-year-old English forward Bailey Cadamarteri"
What a shock, another young striker ready to be poached by a PL club. Yes that is old Everton striker Danny's son.
Yes - Danny Cadamarteri is his father - Makes me feel old seeing that0 -
The year we got promoted (18/19), with Lyle Taylor and half a season of Karlan Grant banging them in don’t forget… we scored the 6th most.jimmymelrose said:Callumcafc said:
You say the same thing every bleeding summer. Of course you’ll be right every now and again.golfaddick said:
Nope. That was the strategy last year & as we can see it didn't work.RodneyCharltonTrotta said:
The penny will drop sooner or later mate.AFKABartram said:
This was my thoughts on Monday and if true it’s just £1.6m (which now seems extremely probable) then worryingly that now seems more weighted to me as a quick cash grab sale, that having him signed to a contract for another 18 months was exactly there to avoid needing.AFKABartram said:
Is it substantial though?ElliotCAFC said:I don’t see the big deal to be honest. The club are happy we’ve got a substantial fee.It doesn’t feel like a Parker or Gomez situation. He’s had a few good performances and now he’s off to a top 4 club for a big fee.Reminds me of Carl Jenkinson to Arsenal.I think one of the things I’m most peed off about is I suspect in comparison to what could be paid to promising contracted youngsters, it won’t be. It just all seems too easy.Can only view it as bad business unless the coaching team don’t think he’s going to improve, which I see as very unlikely.Disappointing
This doesn't speak of much prospect of the requisite summer rebuild or execution of a masterplan strategy to get us up and out of the league.
Actions speak louder than words and soundbites.
I thought if we had got £4m or silly money like that then it would be crazy to turn it down as that could buy the best part of a competitive squad especially if we keep him on loan and loan him even next season.
Feels like we've cashed in way too low when we don't have a massive line of goalscorers in our ranks.
Either potentially poor business or necessity which doesn't bode well for an optimistic outlook on promotion prospects next term or anytime soon.
31 August is the key date for me that I think we'll definitely know the ability and/ or appetite for a real promotion challenge in next couple of years but stuff like this doesn't do anything to allay my pessimism about our prospects.
At worst the key date should be when the season starts. So around Aug 1st.
At best when players come in for pre season training & pre-season friendlies are taking place, so early - mid July.
If we haven't got a replacement striker in by then you can say its another wasted season. You can laugh, but I was right last summer...........
I can’t take any of your goalscorer bleeting seriously after the 20/21 season. Summer of 2020, we were apparently doomed. We scored 70 goals, enough for 5th best in the league.
This season is worse on the goals so far unfortunately yes. But as said in the first sentence, you say the same thing every summer.
Does he say the same thing every summer, really?
Also, 5th best is not good enough on 9/10 occasions to get promoted. 20/21 was unfortunately not the 1/10 season, so as much as I sympathize with your intolerance of the bleeting, it was worthy bleeting imo.Our problem last year was not scoring goals.Yet there’s a whole thread leading into the season about it and you can guess one of the main contributors https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90158/where-are-the-goals-coming-from/p10 -
20/21: Hull (2nd in goals scored), Peterborough (1st in goals scored), Blackpool (14th in goals scored)19/20: Coventry (8th in goals scored), Rotherham (T-2nd in goals scored), Wycombe (12th in goals scored)18/19: Luton (1st in goals scored), Barnsley (T-3rd in goals scored), Charlton (6th in goals scored)6th, 12th and 14th best in goals scored was good enough in each of the last three seasons so I'd reassess that 9/10 assumption as well...0
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Callumcafc said:20/21: Hull (2nd in goals scored), Peterborough (1st in goals scored), Blackpool (14th in goals scored)19/20: Coventry (8th in goals scored), Rotherham (T-2nd in goals scored), Wycombe (12th in goals scored)18/19: Luton (1st in goals scored), Barnsley (T-3rd in goals scored), Charlton (6th in goals scored)6th, 12th and 14th best in goals scored was good enough in each of the last three seasons so I'd reassess that 9/10 assumption as well...
Tranmere are 2nd in League 2 and have scored just 30 goals in 29 matches - barely one a game on average and only half a dozen clubs have scored less. They have won 8 games 1-0 and 4 games 2-0. Their top scorer has 5 goals, he's a midfielder and one of those was a penalty!
So it can be done but it's down to the fact that they've only let in 20 and have had 16 clean sheets. At the other end of the scale, Forest Green are 10 points clear of Tranmere but have scored 58 and their two strikers have 36 between them - 6 more than Tranmere have netted in total
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Yep. Win 4-3 or 1-0. As long as it’s three points, they count (99.9%) the same.0
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How do we know it's a chunky sell on ? Because Sandgaard says so ? He also said the fee we received was substantial, I think it's a very low fee but I guess he's just looking to balance the books after signing Kirk, Aneke, Fraser etc. I don't think Sandgaard has a clue with regards to running a football club but I guess having his equally inexperienced son keeping an eye on the shop will work out. I don't see us getting out of this division anytime soon.mendonca said:Chunky sell on and also Mason was very keen on the move, so understandable.
Hard to value.4 -
Curbs quoted the £1.6m figure tonight, I wonder where he got it from, as I doubt he reads VOTV or is on this board!2
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Airman did say in the Voice that not everyone close to the deal within the club thought it a sensible one so I guess there's a fair amount of talk going on & these things have a habit of coming out.killerandflash said:Curbs quoted the £1.6m figure tonight, I wonder where he got it from, as I doubt he reads VOTV or is on this board!0 -
burstow isn’t ready ready for league 1 football and won’t be for a few years either. The fee Chelsea paid is more than good enough for someone who won’t be anywhere near ready to play for us for at least a couple of years and by then, he will be out of contract. So good business as far as I’m aware.10
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Inclined to agree. The goals he’s scored he has taken well, but other than that you’d barely know he was on the pitch. If we weren’t in the weird period in football where premier league clubs are just hoovering up any young English player who shows even a modicum of potential then there’s no way a top side would be even looking at him, let alone paying 7 figures for him. He’s less ready than Karlan Grant was when he first came into the team. Grant turned out decent in the end but if someone had paid £1.6m for Grant in 2017/2018 we’d have all thought they were absolutely mental.0
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1.6 mil for the level he’s at , at the moment , is brilliant business. He’s not good enough for league one football at the moment in my opinion. Whether he’s going to be a premier league player in the future is now up to Chelsea . I have my doubts3
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1.6m in this day and age for a young talented forward is a joke.
Rationalising the fee because of performances now removes the whole point of why Chelsea bought him. They bought him for the potential, not what hes offering now.
If it's true that there were multiple clubs circling around Burstow, why did we sell him the first chance we got?
Waiting until summer boosts his goal tally. Makes other clubs take notice and starts a bidding war for the whole of summer.4 -
It was a joke last night we've had em right overSELR_addicks said:1.6m in this day and age for a young talented forward is a joke.
Rationalising the fee because of performances now removes the whole point of why Chelsea bought him. They bought him for the potential, not what hes offering now.
If it's true that there were multiple clubs circling around Burstow, why did we sell him the first chance we got?
Waiting until summer boosts his goal tally. Makes other clubs take notice and starts a bidding war for the whole of summer.3 -
Hopefully we base our transfer valuations on slightly more evidence than “last night”.CAFCBourne said:
It was a joke last night we've had em right overSELR_addicks said:1.6m in this day and age for a young talented forward is a joke.
Rationalising the fee because of performances now removes the whole point of why Chelsea bought him. They bought him for the potential, not what hes offering now.
If it's true that there were multiple clubs circling around Burstow, why did we sell him the first chance we got?
Waiting until summer boosts his goal tally. Makes other clubs take notice and starts a bidding war for the whole of summer.Getting £1.6M from the European champions for a promising young striker is very poor business, that doesn’t change because he was part of a bad team performance last night.5 -
The suggestion that we have pulled Chelsea's pants down over Burstow based on his performance last night is strange to put it mildly.
He had no physical support up front, he was faced with a man mountain defender and only had scraps to feed on- usually hoofs up field from the back. In those circumstances nobody is going to shine (and Washington certainly didn't shine either)
The lad has got a natural ability to finish and that is priceless. I for one would be absolutely delighted if we could get him back on loan again next year.11 -
Catastrophic injuries aside, Burstow will go on to have a better career than Lookman, but not as good as Gomez.5
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That’s a very bold statement to make about someone that’s hardly played professional football & only at league one level at that.se9addick said:Catastrophic injuries aside, Burstow will go on to have a better career than Lookman, but not as good as Gomez.10 - Sponsored links:
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I reckon he'll follow Kasey Palmer's career path1
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Good post. My thinking is that he should have been left out for a few games after signing for Chelsea. I should imagine his head is in bit of a spin after making such a bit move. The lack of options we have available up front have left us with no option but to involve him, clearly not his fault.Fortune 82nd Minute said:The suggestion that we have pulled Chelsea's pants down over Burstow based on his performance last night is strange to put it mildly.
He had no physical support up front, he was faced with a man mountain defender and only had scraps to feed on- usually hoofs up field from the back. In those circumstances nobody is going to shine (and Washington certainly didn't shine either)
The lad has got a natural ability to finish and that is priceless. I for one would be absolutely delighted if we could get him back on loan again next year.I don’t quite understand why we bothered loaning John and Castillo….when we should have got a striker in. We knew Stockley was out and that Aneke is incapable for playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday.Yes he was poor last night, but a striker can’t perform if he doesn’t get the service.2 -
Life’s too short not to be boldstop_shouting said:
That’s a very bold statement to make about someone that’s hardly played professional football & only at league one level at that.se9addick said:Catastrophic injuries aside, Burstow will go on to have a better career than Lookman, but not as good as Gomez.1 -
Lookman was far better at this agese9addick said:Catastrophic injuries aside, Burstow will go on to have a better career than Lookman, but not as good as Gomez.15 -
Didn't think Burstow was that bad last nightWilling runner, gave his all and when he got a sniff he generally retained position with a decent lay off. Not his fault our midfield and defence have him no opportunities and he had no muscle.up front to help him out.
Ultimately he is a talented young lad new to men's footy and clearly in need of bulking up.
He will have a decent career, don't know what level yet.
Sadly we have some fans (not saying on here) who are desperate to see him fail now he has signed for Chelsea (one such fella sits behind me and you could hear the delight in his pathetic "Chelsea" shout at the w/e every time Burstow gave the ball away.5 -
Scores = worth £10gazillion
Misses = had your pants down there chelski
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se9addick said:
Hopefully we base our transfer valuations on slightly more evidence than “last night”.CAFCBourne said:
It was a joke last night we've had em right overSELR_addicks said:1.6m in this day and age for a young talented forward is a joke.
Rationalising the fee because of performances now removes the whole point of why Chelsea bought him. They bought him for the potential, not what hes offering now.
If it's true that there were multiple clubs circling around Burstow, why did we sell him the first chance we got?
Waiting until summer boosts his goal tally. Makes other clubs take notice and starts a bidding war for the whole of summer.Getting £1.6M from the European champions for a promising young striker is very poor business, that doesn’t change because he was part of a bad team performance last night.
It's not getting £1.6m though is it? It's £1.6m plus add ons depending on how well he does. And if Burstow were to be valued on what he's achieved to date then (two goals in League 1) then he wouldn't be worth anything like that. Your argument is all based on "what if" scenarios - "What if" he scored another 10 goals this season being one of them. What if" he only gets say 4 or 5 for the rest of the season that would probably mean that his value (plus add ons) would go down especially with only 12 months of his contract to go? Burstow certainly can't be judged on last night's game but the longer he goes on not scoring, the more chance that clubs won't come knocking. And if they do it will be at a lower price.
Another "what if" is whether "multiple clubs" were actually "circling around Burstow". Do we know that for a fact and if so where is the evidence? If we do, then how much was offered? Do we seriously think that TS would turn down £5m for him just so that he can accept £1.6m?
As for the European Champions buying him, I would point out that they paid £35m for Danny Drinkwater, a Premier League winner. In five seasons at the Club he's started 5 PL games. Their outlay was more than 25 times the amount they paid for Burstow and he he's hardly kicked a ball in anger for them. So, even the European Champions, with all their nous, make mistakes. And unlike Burstow, there was far more evidence to hand to be able to judge whether he could play at that level. Instead, in those five seasons, he's started just 27 matches on loan at Burnley (1), Aston Villa (4), Kasimpasa (6) and Reading (16).
At the other end of the scale, look at what Sheffield United paid for Rhian Brewster. £23.5m! Their evidence? 11 goals in the Championship on loan from Liverpool to Swansea. So how many goals did Brewster get in the PL. The answer is a big fat zero from 27 appearances. Oh how Liverpool must have laughed! £23.5m for a player who had never ever been deemed good enough to play a minute for them in the PL. Back in the Championship he has scored three times this season. That doesn't make him worth £23.5m right now and the likelihood is that he will never be worth that.
Chelsea have already made two mistakes with Burstow. They twice had him on trial from Maidstone but didn't sign him. Our gain. However, Burstow might not make a single appearance for Chelsea. He might not even play at Championship level. It's a punt. And Chelsea make a lot of them. Just as we had a punt on Lookman, Burstow, Davison, Pope, Clayden, Bonne etc etc. Some have/will work out. Others won't. It's all speculation in the hope of accumulation. Let's not kid ourselves that it's any different for us. It's just we fish further down stream.
TS has made his money as a successful business man. He will, as all business men do, have made mistakes along the way. Fortunately, he didn't make enough mistakes to stop him from rescuing us from the fraudsters. Selling Burstow for £1.6m (plus add ons) might be a mistake. But it might not. The truth is, no one actually knows. But I would put money on him getting it right in the end. Because, unlike most of us, he has a proven track record of doing so. I don't recall too many bona fide buyers willing to pay what RD wanted.
Questioning the actions of an owner is a fit and proper thing to do. But we really need to do so when we have evidence to back that up. Our evidence is that Burstow has scored two League 1 goals for us. That's £800,000 a goal we received (plus add ons). Ivan Toney was sold for £5m by Peterborough having scored 40 goals at this level in 76 appearances. That's £125,000 a goal for someone who consistently found the back of the net. Burstow has yet to prove that he can do that.
Finally, note that I keep mentioning the "add ons". Because 20% of say £50m (assuming he turns out to be that good) is £10m. But, if he doesn't "train on" we won't get anything extra because he would have turned out not to actually be that good. So we would have been the ones to benefit from a player who did not come through our age group system but, who, in his formative years, came through the Maidstone system. Who would be the party making the most money then? Not Maidstone that's for sure. And not Chelsea either.
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From what I've seen Mason has been a bit of a late developer. When I used to watch him at Cray Wanderers/Junior Reds there were a couple of lads that were stronger, faster and more explosive than him. Tyrese Omotoye (Norwich but on loan at Carlisle) and David Omalubu (Crystal Palace U23) but now I would say that Mason is marginally ahead of them both. I can get why Chelsea would take a speculative punt on him for sure.2
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I get that. Youngsters in a lot of sport do not develop at the same rate especially when size is a consideration. My son was always small for his age and it reminds me of the story a Charlton youth coach told me years ago (Steve Lovell) at a summer camp about his counterpart at Millwall and a pre season age group meeting. All the coaches were told that the Club wanted to get away from the big lad at the back hoofing it forward to the big, quick lad up top. They wanted all their teams to start playing football. At the end of the season, the coach was hauled in and asked to explain why his team were bottom of the League. His explanation that they were told not to play to their side's strength wasn't accepted. I could say that Mllwall are still playing "hoof ball" but I might then be referred to the respective League tables.DagenhamAddick said:From what I've seen Mason has been a bit of a late developer. When I used to watch him at Cray Wanderers/Junior Reds there were a couple of lads that were stronger, faster and more explosive than him. Tyrese Omotoye (Norwich but on loan at Carlisle) and David Omalubu (Crystal Palace U23) but now I would say that Mason is marginally ahead of them both. I can get why Chelsea would take a speculative punt on him for sure.
But, back to the point, as you say, Burstow is a "speculative punt".1
