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Charlie Kirk (p68 - released by Barrow)
Comments
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How about we just let the lad adjust and develop? His success (and his stats with Crewe suggest he can contribute) have come from a regular starting position across 3 seasons in a regular playing format which suits his skill sets.
His assists suggest he has the vision to pick a pass or cross. The entire playing format has changed so everybody has had to make adjustments.
Logically if you are used to working with an over lapping full back then 3-5-2 gives you that option and currently positions you in the Elliott Lee role. His overall mobility in that role puts him ahead of Morgan but his energy levels and intensity need to improve significantly.
Who knows what opportunities will present themselves in the coming weeks? Injuries, Lee switching to another role, losing form etc., Judging someone after 5 starts is horribly premature. Shutting doors and prematurely throwing people under the bus is not only hugely expensive but completely counter productive.
Kirk will know the competition around him.
I am not troubled by his ability to go past players. Peter Houseman barely went past anybody in a decade but his ability to create a half a yard to engineer and deliver to effective passing opportunities was unsurpassed. It is Kirks ability to link play particularly in the final third in creating and scoring goals which will decide his future in SE7.
In that regard the whole team will need to step up its performance..
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I actually though yesterday that him not wanting to run at the defenders and to pass back seemed more like a confidence issue than an ability issue.
I remember the Gilbey podcast when he mentioned that when he was performing badly for us that it made him want to play negatively and pass backwards out of fear of doing more damage than good, could be similar in my opinion.0 -
I agree. Looked like he lacked the conviction to deliver more than any physical attribute.LTKapal said:I actually though yesterday that him not wanting to run at the defenders and to pass back seemed more like a confidence issue than an ability issue.
I remember the Gilbey podcast when he mentioned that when he was performing badly for us that it made him want to play negatively and pass backwards out of fear of doing more damage than good, could be similar in my opinion.1 -
Ahhh the old "he's got money, and a previous generation had it harder so he should stop complaining" argument.addick1956 said:
My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression. At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.Kap10 said:The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events
They had no time to sulk or hide.
.Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.
I shouldn't rise to it... but its... just... beautiful!!4 -
But DJ always had pace and energy and he’s added a work ethic . Kirk doesn’t have pace or energy .ForeverAddickted said:DJ started off very slowly for us with a lot of fans unimpressed by his early performances.
Is now doing a lot better in the team as he's managed to regain his confidence, even in an unfamiliar position and is a proper pain in the arse for the opposition at the moment - Hopefully Charlie can learn from that himself.0 -
Sadly I wasn't impressed with Kirk when he played against us at the Valley, but I was told on here that I must have been watching a different game.
It was all slow, easy to defend attacking play. I'm also struggling with the fact he can't hit a ball very hard or beyond 30 metres.0 -
Kirk is one of the best wingers at this level for a few years the stats don’t lie ….
There a number of reasons perhaps where he found it difficult..of course the main one being his personal life the death of his father could not happened at a worst time for him , this could not have helped in trying to settle miles from home ..
but the other reason is change of manager and system , he was brought in to play in a three behind the line striker now we are not playing that way .. last night he had to play wing back and like CBT this is not his role … you could tell he was very aware of what was behind him which restricted him really going forward and doing what a winger would do ..
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He just needs some time. He looked comfortable on the ball, and the worn out team didn't help when he went forward. I'm sure he'll come good after a few more games, once the coaching team have worked with him.
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Other points of history worth mentioning, the dinosaurs. I thought they had all been wiped out but it seems one may still remain.addick1956 said:
My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression. At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.Kap10 said:The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events
They had no time to sulk or hide.
.Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.13 -
This might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read, not just on Charlton Life, but on the whole of the internet. If you’ve got a Range Rover you shouldn’t be too upset at the death of a loved one. Jesus Christ.addick1956 said:
My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression. At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.Kap10 said:The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events
They had no time to sulk or hide.
.Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.24 - Sponsored links:
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Confidence is the magic ingredient in football and can be completely transformative for a player. Kirk looks devoid of it at the moment. He hasn't impressed yet, but certainly shouldn't be written off at this time.
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He was an all style no substance player that lacked style.Leuth said:I'll say it again: if Ben Reeves didn't have fitness issues he'd be comfortably a Championship player
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And I stuck up for him while he was here. A poor man's Jonny Williams who inturn is a poor man's Elliot Lee.cantersaddick said:
He was an all style no substance player that lacked style.Leuth said:I'll say it again: if Ben Reeves didn't have fitness issues he'd be comfortably a Championship player
The Kirk/Reeves similarities don't end with their playing style, we chased both for ages only for them to offer nothing.1 -
But that's not what you said is it. You said because he's got a few quid and a nice car he should be able to just move on from the death of his father. I think that's a massively distasteful thing to say. Yes, he cannot use it an excuse forever, and actually, regardless of his situation I have been disappointed with him. But I do have sympathy for him and losing someone you are close to is bloody tough whether you're a lord or a peasant.addick1956 said:
Not exactly...People should not put forward his plight as a reason for failure. But yes they had far more to put up with and in more dangerous situations. Wimping around wasn't really an option.ForeverAddickted said:
Ahhh the old "he's got money, and a previous generation had it harder so he should stop complaining" argument.addick1956 said:
My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression. At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.Kap10 said:The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events
They had no time to sulk or hide.
.Kirk has a fine life style and a Range Rover. Give him 8 months and wipe out this season. For God's sake why ? He needs to buckle down and justify the owner's expense on him now, not next bloody year.
I shouldn't rise to it... but its... just... beautiful!!
Consequently we weren't really allowed that option either. It is a mind set today's generation don't understand. I am sure Jackson will not expect this season to be written off by Kirk , or Kirk either for that matter.2 -
DFTT0
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Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He is far too lightweight to play centrally.
I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success5 -
addick1956 said:
My father lost his own dad when he was 9. Life was a struggle in the depression. At 23 (Kirks age) he was in the 2nd wave at D Day, Operation Market Garden, was stuck in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge . There were many others like him.Kap10 said:The guy has just list his dad, moved from up north to London, I am willing to write this season off for him. He has a positive history in L1 so willing to give him time to get over life changing events
What was his goals to games ratio like while all this was going on?
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To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need.cantersaddick said:Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.
I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success1 -
Watch the work and tackles Lee put in against Plymouth. Not just the pressing but the physicality and use of his body. Kirk can't do that. Agree he could work in some other formation but we can't afford to build te team around him.cafcfan1990 said:
To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need.cantersaddick said:Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.
I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success1 -
I bumped into a Crewe fan in the pub yesterday lunchtime. His take was that he'd let his early successes go to his head and he started believing he was better than he was. He made it sound like he wasn't applying himself properly before he'd left Crewe. I hope he can pull things around for his sake an ours.0
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Ah don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Kirk will be anything like as effective as Lee. All I'm saying is that for me, it's the only possible position he could start a game in a 352. If not, where? He's not a wing-back nor a striker. Nor am I suggesting we change formation to fit him into the side, just stating that unless we change shape I can't see him getting the opportunity to impress. It's going to be very difficult for him to come on for the occasional cameo and play himself into form unfortunately.cantersaddick said:
Watch the work and tackles Lee put in against Plymouth. Not just the pressing but the physicality and use of his body. Kirk can't do that. Agree he could work in some other formation but we can't afford to build te team around him.cafcfan1990 said:
To be fair I don't disagree but I also think it's about the only position he could start in our current formation. Yes he is lightweight but does a CAM have to be particularly strong? In some games yes it will go against him but in games where we are dominating possession I wouldn't be surprised to see him have a decent game there. Ultimately though, I agree with your second statement. I think he'd work in a certain formation with the right LB behind him but at the moment I can't see us switching to anything like the system he'd need.cantersaddick said:Please stop suggesting Kirk fir the Lee role. He us far too lightweight to play centrally.
I want him to do well for us but I just don't see what he brings, where he fits or what attributes he has that might make him a success2 -
Kirk to me looked very nervous when he came on last night, he obviously was desperate to do well and something to go right for him.I do have quite a bit of sympathy for the young man, when Adkins first used him at the start of the season he was playing on the left with a right footed left back behind him. Although the overall system played at that time probably suits his game better than the one we have now, not having a left footer behind him that will overlap does not.
Now under Jackson playing with wingbacks the team have looked considerably better, but it is difficult to see how Kirk will fit in and get a regular opportunity, even with injuries and squad rotation.By most accounts and statistics he did very well at Crewe. I am also mindful that a lot of his career to date prior to signing for Charlton will have been played in empty grounds with no fans. Some players thrive in front of a crowd some take time to adjust, that may be a factor.
Added to that losing his Dad at the start of the season and moving away from his family must have been hard. I lost my Dad at a similar age and I would be lying if I said it did not affect me, despite the fact that I had an expensive car at the time.
I think it is far too early to write the player off and he may well go on to have a great career either at Charlton or somewhere else, time will tell.10 -
He's only 23 and spent his entire career prior to us playing and living in the one spot.
Even without his personal troubles at the start of the season you'd expect him to need some time bedding in, some people adapt better than others. He might, he might not, but he's barely kicked a ball so won't write him off just yet.
Going forward, think he'd be better off playing as more of a central AM.
Wouldn't call him a panic buy either seeing as we chased him over 2 windows 😅3 -
Have seen nothing in him to make me think he will be any good in a charlton shirt. Devoid of any confidence when he came on Tuesday.Looks like a lot of wasted money.0
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Bottom line is that he's just not that good.
As he's signed a three year contract it looks like we are stuck with him for a while.
If JJ can bring the best out of him he may just improve if not we will have to cut our losses and try to move him on.0 -
A lot of people on here were saying Dobson and Clare were shit after a few games, now look.
I completely agree he's not looked good at all so far but give him some time, if he's still not doing it by Feb/March then we'll have an issue but not yet. He's played 423 league minutes so far, most of those in a terrible Adkins side, you can't write a player off after that short a time period.16 -
Too early to write him off but struggle to see him fitting our current formation. He also appears to lack the work rate and aggression needed for the way we’re playing.
I think many of us (myself included) thought he’d take on and go past players more often. Either he’s lost confidence or that was never really his game. That doesn’t have to be an issue in his position, but it means he needs to threaten in other ways to make up for it by more regularly picking out good passes/crosses and scoring goals. He’s not shown any of that yet.4 -
Lolz at people making blanket statements about a players ability when they fell into exactly the same trap at the beginning of the season as well with Clare/Dobson/DJ.
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The difference is that when these 3 came back into the side they all looked like they understood what was expected of them and have done well.FishCostaFortune said:Lolz at people making blanket statements about a players ability when they fell into exactly the same trap at the beginning of the season as well with Clare/Dobson/DJ.
When Kirk has played recently in cups or league he does not look as if he does. So either he is not being told or he cannot do it, yet. There does not seem to be any intensity in his play, he looks lightweight.
Hopefully that can change, or he will have to go.0 -
He's also missed some sitters earlier in the season, so I can sense why fans are hoping for more.
For an attacking player who doesn't want to press, you'd expect to see a very good dribbler, passer or striker of the ball.0
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