England v Italy - THE FINAL - Match Thread

Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win

Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.

Well Muttley, your 50% Italian so you should be happy from the waist down.

As the rules stand,  when Saka had his collar felt it was a yellow But we are seeing so many blatant rugby type challenges that should get more than a yellow card. I agree he was only choked, and the smiling assassin wanted to help him back to his feet after Saka found his eyeballs that had popped out.

Trevor Kettle is ref and Italy have 9 men.

Only four teams didn’t lose a game in the tournament: Italy, Spain, England and France.

Callumcafc said:

Only four teams didn’t lose a game in the tournament: Italy, Spain, England and France.

Welcome to CL Jose Mourinho.

(Chelsea v Cafc League cup !)

soapboxsam said:

Callumcafc said:

Only four teams didn’t lose a game in the tournament: Italy, Spain, England and France.

Welcome to CL Jose Mourinho.

(Chelsea v Cafc League cup !)

Ha fair point. But I’m only pulling stats from the UEFA website which show a zero next to the losses column for all four of those nations.

Onviously we lost the shootout. But we didn’t lose a match in 90 mins, or even in 120 mins.

Callumcafc said:

Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win

Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.

Hopefully bellingham! 

I think Qatar will be survival of the fittest, weird time of the year, conditions will be horrible for some games, and you'll see some weird results, so oddly I don't expect much, Germany 2024 has to be a target to win, Belgium will be gone as a force, Italy in a rebuild, Germany will have lot of home advantage but I don't think they've got a squad and France will be France. 

Cafc43v3r said:

JohnBoyUK said:

ForeverAddickted said:

robroy said:

Gravesend_Addick said:

Left the pub straight after the game & the streets in the town centre were full of youngsters fighting & arguing with each other. Heard a couple of pubs got shut down during the game too. I just don't get it.

Some proper bellends about last night & an England defeat always seems to bring out the worst in these twats 

Should have been a 3pm kick off, would have stopped a load of trouble 

The Euros and World Cup Finals have always been at 8pm on a Sunday

Unfortunately a number of England fans (wont call them a large number as dont think they represent the majority of our fans) have proven their immaturity compared to when other Nations get to a Final

Sorry to be a pedant but the Euro 1988 final was actually a 15:30ko.  Van Basten scored in daylight.
I make you right on all the others though (I think!)

I think 92 was a Friday tea time wasn't it? 

Think it was early evening if I remember right 

Callumcafc said:

Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win

Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.

Can only really think of Scholes in my lifetime who has been that kind of player for England, we seem to either have decent defensive midfielders like Rice, or "final 3rd" types midfielders like Foden/Grealish (and Gerrard, Lampard etc).

We just don't seem to produce the Pirlo, Madrid, Kroos type midfielders, and I think it's the one big thing missing at the moment.

Imagine a player like that playing clever little balls into the likes of Sancho, Sterling, Foden etc.

North Lower Neil said:

Gravesend_Addick said:

Dazzler21 said:

Laddick01 said:

Gravesend_Addick said:

Watched it back a couple of times & I still don't understand why that's not a red card 

Emerson one was questionable too. Watched Wales get 2 reds for softer tackles.

And Chiellini's shirt pull/choke.

Seen lots of people claiming Chiellini's shirt pull was a red card.  It was a strategic foul to stop Saka breaking away. It's not as if he was clean through on goal.  Only ever going to be a yellow card.

The Grealish 1 though, for me is a red card offence 

Completely agree on Chiellini, and most I've seen saying they thought it was a red card are the more casual watchers I'd say - it was cynical, but it was only a yellow card, and Chiellini knew that.

The Jorginho one could easily have been a red card.

It was cynical but Chiellini knew he couldn't be sent off it. He took the booking because of how late it was and he thought there was a risk, but there was cover. 

The better side won - congratulations Italia.

We looked great for the first twenty minutes, but stopped playing football after that.  We should have tried to go for a second as it was obvious that defending a lead for 70 minutes against a side of Italy's calibre wouldn't work; and sure enough, it didn't.

It was obvious even after 30 minutes that our tactics were no longer working and a change was needed, but Southgate did nothing.  You cannot play attack vs defence for most of the game against a top side and expect to get a result - it was utterly predictable.  As a consequence, we were absolutely dire in the second half as we had no way of taking the pressure off our defence by playing in the opposition's half.  Their goal was inevitable and only some very good defending from us and a big dose of luck prevented us being beaten in normal time.

Southgate only reacted when it was too late, changing the system to allow us to at least have a chance of scoring.  Imagine if Grealish (I think that Foden being unavailable was a real shame) had had a whole half to try and unlock the Italian defence instead of a few minutes in extra time?

It isn't Southgate's fault that nearly all of his subs came on and played badly (e.g Henderson, Saka); if they had played as well as they were capable of, then things could maybe have been different, but after the first twenty we looked like losers.

I felt really sorry for the subs coming on at the end; barely getting a kick in the tournament at that point is unlikely to have helped their confidence; expecting them to step up and do the necessary under the highest pressure conditions possible in the game was always a step too far, especially the youngsters.  We don't know the ins and outs of who wanted to take a penalty or not, so it is unfair to blame any individuals involved, especially Sancho and Saka.  I also felt sorry for Pickford who did exceptionally well under the circumstances; if you save two out of five, then you expect to be in with a good chance of winning the shoot out, but to put your chances in the hands of youngsters is far to much to expect.

Still, I never expected us to get this far, so I can't be too disappointed at the final outcome, which I actually expected before the game kicked off.

And as for the racial abuse etc. from the usual morons; I believe that it is now time for the football world to put its money where its mouth is and stage a PROPER boycott of Twitter until they introduce a voluntary registration scheme whereby prominent people (and indeed, anyone) can choose to only receive messages from traceable accounts.  As I said before, some morons will probably still do it (stupid is as stupid does), but at least some of these cowards would be answerable for their actions - put their names and faces in the papers and see how they fucking like it.  I'd like to punch one of c***s if I had the chance, wouldn't you?

Why Twitter have not acted to do this yet is the question everyone should be asking of them.  Unless all football clubs and organisations demand action and boycott social media, then they are just full of shit and don't actually care about the harm being done to young people whose only 'crime' is to fail to kick a ball into net in a sports game.

Time for actions, not words.

Congratulations, Italy. You were too good for us.
Congratulations, England, you did far better than any of us realistically expected. You can be very proud.

Now we can turn our attention to a barnstorming promotion season for the Addicks.  COYR!

North Lower Neil said:

Callumcafc said:

Italy are a very good side. They were always going to dominate the ball and there is no shame in losing to them, especially on penalties. Southgate’s tactics were IMO spot on and but for an unlucky ricochet off the post at a set piece, we would’ve held on for a 1-0 win

Until we have box to box midfielders with the technical quality of Jorginho, Verratti et al, the game was always going to play out the way it did. Putting on a Grealish or a Foden (if he was fit) doesn’t magically flip the script like some seem to think.

Can only really think of Scholes in my lifetime who has been that kind of player for England, we seem to either have decent defensive midfielders like Rice, or "final 3rd" types midfielders like Foden/Grealish (and Gerrard, Lampard etc).

We just don't seem to produce the Pirlo, Madrid, Kroos type midfielders, and I think it's the one big thing missing at the moment.

Imagine a player like that playing clever little balls into the likes of Sancho, Sterling, Foden etc.

It all comes down to style of play and coaching. Pretty sure Foden and Grealish have the ability to play central midfield but it would require the team set up to support keeping the ball rather than just defending and Southgate just isn't capable enough to make it happen.

bigstemarra said:

The better side won - congratulations Italia.

We looked great for the first twenty minutes, but stopped playing football after that.  We should have tried to go for a second as it was obvious that defending a lead for 70 minutes against a side of Italy's calibre wouldn't work; and sure enough, it didn't.

It was obvious even after 30 minutes that our tactics were no longer working and a change was needed, but Southgate did nothing.  You cannot play attack vs defence for most of the game against a top side and expect to get a result - it was utterly predictable.  As a consequence, we were absolutely dire in the second half as we had no way of taking the pressure off our defence by playing in the opposition's half.  Their goal was inevitable and only some very good defending from us and a big dose of luck prevented us being beaten in normal time.

Southgate only reacted when it was too late, changing the system to allow us to at least have a chance of scoring.  Imagine if Grealish (I think that Foden being unavailable was a real shame) had had a whole half to try and unlock the Italian defence instead of a few minutes in extra time?

It isn't Southgate's fault that nearly all of his subs came on and played badly (e.g Henderson, Saka); if they had played as well as they were capable of, then things could maybe have been different, but after the first twenty we looked like losers.

I felt really sorry for the subs coming on at the end; barely getting a kick in the tournament at that point is unlikely to have helped their confidence; expecting them to step up and do the necessary under the highest pressure conditions possible in the game was always a step too far, especially the youngsters.  We don't know the ins and outs of who wanted to take a penalty or not, so it is unfair to blame any individuals involved, especially Sancho and Saka.  I also felt sorry for Pickford who did exceptionally well under the circumstances; if you save two out of five, then you expect to be in with a good chance of winning the shoot out, but to put your chances in the hands of youngsters is far to much to expect.

Still, I never expected us to get this far, so I can't be too disappointed at the final outcome, which I actually expected before the game kicked off.

And as for the racial abuse etc. from the usual morons; I believe that it is now time for the football world to put its money where its mouth is and stage a PROPER boycott of Twitter until they introduce a voluntary registration scheme whereby prominent people (and indeed, anyone) can choose to only receive messages from traceable accounts.  As I said before, some morons will probably still do it (stupid is as stupid does), but at least some of these cowards would be answerable for their actions - put their names and faces in the papers and see how they fucking like it.  I'd like to punch one of c***s if I had the chance, wouldn't you?

Why Twitter have not acted to do this yet is the question everyone should be asking of them.  Unless all football clubs and organisations demand action and boycott social media, then they are just full of shit and don't actually care about the harm being done to young people whose only 'crime' is to fail to kick a ball into net in a sports game.

Time for actions, not words.

Congratulations, Italy. You were too good for us.
Congratulations, England, you did far better than any of us realistically expected. You can be very proud.

Now we can turn our attention to a barnstorming promotion season for the Addicks.  COYR!

A boycott of Instagram/Twitter by leading clubs and organisations would I'm sure get a response given the financial impact but would they do it and take the financial hit themselves? Thierry Henry dropped his accounts earlier this year in response to the lack of action.

Actions speak louder than words.

Are we really prepared to be having the same shitfest at the next international tournament?  Christ, I hope not.

Twitter, by their inaction, are effectively endorsing the situation.  If enough people act and it hits their advertising revenues, then they will do something.  Corporations are great a virtue signalling when they think that there is a financial advantage to doing so.  The idea of 'ethical' corporations is laughable - they care about money, and that's all.  The social media giants talk a good game, but they are full of shit as they won't actually DO anything to remedy the situation, when it is in their hands to change things.  They are charlatans.

It's up to the football community to force the issue.  The question is, do they ACTUALLY care, or is it just about the optics and being seen to say the 'right' things?

I have my suspicions, TBH.